Bullying the baby

[Hollie34]

So my two females are together, a one year old pig and a 6week old baby.

During their introduction they shared food but one the food was gone there was stuttering head raising pouncing and biting. no blood drew though as of yet.

they have been in the same cage all night now, and they both seem fine physically, the little one just seems stressed.

This morning there's LOTS of chasing by the older one and it almost seems like the baby is being bullied as the older one just wont leave her alone and nipping her.

I'm out the house for just over four hours today, will they be okay? Is everything going okay or should they have some wire grids in between them?

[kathlaaron]

So my two females are together, a one year old pig and a 6week old baby.

During their introduction they shared food but one the food was gone there was stuttering head raising pouncing and biting. no blood drew though as of yet.

they have been in the same cage all night now, and they both seem fine physically, the little one just seems stressed.

This morning there's LOTS of chasing by the older one and it almost seems like the baby is being bullied as the older one just wont leave her alone and nipping her.

I'm out the house for just over four hours today, will they be okay? Is everything going okay or should they have some wire grids in between them?

I am still a "newbie" myself, so this is NOT expert advice, but if it were me, I would put a grid in just to be safe until you get back home and can supervise them properly.
Have you had a chance to read over all the info on this site ? Guinealynx.com also has a lot of material on behavior and introductions as well. Both of these sites teach us about ( I prefer this one though) giving each piggie a set quarrentine period, before introductions are made too.

[lissie]

Well, quarantine are done in a separate room behind closed doors.

Introductions should be done once, if you separate them, they will have to go through dominance issues again. It will make it worse the next time you put them together again. You should not separate them if they don't hurt each other (bloodshed) or keep each other from eating. During this time, it's a good idea to monitor their weight. You can weight them at the same time everyday to make sure they are not losing weight.

Here are some good threads on introductions.
http://www.guinealynx.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=46468 (talks about boars, but the same rules pretty much applies to sows)
http://www.guinealynx.info/records/viewtopic.php?t=37

[kathlaaron]

Hollie,
I just looked around on this site for you on your concern for bullying, check out cavyspirit.com/sociallife.httn and they give really good information on dominance and when you have introduced the second piggie. I still think it is a good idea to put a grid between them until you get home or can properly monitor their interactions.
Someone has to be the alpha or dominant pig, and I think sometimes it can look to us like one or the other is being "bullied", but it's really just establishing heirarchy/dominance I think. Good luck piggie pal friend ! Keep us posted, ok ? I am sure that many others that are more experienced than I, will come on to help you !

[kathlaaron]

I just want to quickly clarify that I too don't think they should be separated as in another room/cage or whatnot. I meant to say, putting a grid in between them were they can still smell and see one another, but prevents any possible fights for the time being and your sanity while you are away, and can't monitor them properly.

[kathlaaron]

Lissie, am I incorrect on what I told Hollie34 ?

[Hollie34]

Thank you both so much !!

Luckily I didn't have to put the bars in between them, My dad agreed to pop of and keep checking on them. Iv been watching them for half n hour, and it seems like my older piggie is claiming the dominance. If the baby is in a place she goes, she will give her a slight nip on the bum and chase her away, however she has got quite angry sometimes and stood waving her hips in large motions. i feel so sorry and useless that i cant help the baby.

They have now been together all night and most of today, no blood draw, yet no peace made as of yet.

As lissie said, i will weigh them to keep an eye on them, but they still seem to be eating fine, the baby isn't drinking as much so i will keep her topped on juicy fruits and veg.

Is there any chance, after being together for 24 hours now, that they will end up having to be separated, or will everything balance out sooner or later?

Sorry I write so much, I am a worried mother at the moment.

THANK YOU lissie and kathlaaron, I feel a bit more relaxed with people reassuring me !!

[kathlaaron]

Please forgive me Holly34 for this, but when I read that the big momma was waving those hips big and wide it made me chuckle ! It reminded me of a mad mother scolding her youngster in no uncertain terms ! Ho! Ha ! However, your older piggie is just establishing to the younger one her authority, her dominance ! Very normal. And until the little piggie listens and becomes submissive, ( it could take quite a while though, I have read that it can take many weeks, so be prepared) she will be doing all kinds of rumblestrutting, ect. until it is resolved who the real "Boss" is going to be. Good luck to you my piggie pal friend !

[kathlaaron]

Oh, and by the way, you are VERY welcome my dear !

[lissie]

Lissie, am I incorrect on what I told Hollie34 ?

Sorry I didn't answer this. I already went to bed when you posted it.

I think once introduced, you shouldn't put grids between them. That's kind of separating them.

[Nicolene]

Do not separate them in any way, UNLESS there is blood. This will be stressful for everyone, including you. If you look at my old posts you will see I was in the same situation 6 months ago. They will figure it out, I promise. Try to ignore them and check them over twice a day for wounds. I don't know how many times I caught my hubby trying to sneak the baby out to give him a break and I would yell at him to leave them alone. He also clapped his hands and tried to "scold" the bully, so I had my hands full between the piggies and calming the hubby down. They still go nuts with the fighting for a day every 3 weeks or so, but they coexist quite happily now.

[Andrmgic]

I have the same issue with my 2 girls.. one of them always bullies the other one..

There are chunks of one girl's ear missing, but there has not been any blood since I've had them.. I adopted both of them together from the local shelter.. they came in in the same cage.

I take the victim out of the cage from time to time to watch her eat to make sure she gets her fair share, she seems to get enough to eat, but I don't like watching the bully nip her and chase her because she squeals bloody murder.

In all honesty it makes me angry. I try not to take it out on the bully since it is natural behavior.. but I hate seeing any of them pushed around.

[pinky]

How large is your cage? My first thought would be that they don't have enough space. I'd also keep an eye on the baby's ears. Guinea pigs can bite off the entire ear if they are angry enough.

[Andrmgic]

How large is your cage? My first thought would be that they don't have enough space. I'd also keep an eye on the baby's ears. Guinea pigs can bite off the entire ear if they are angry enough.

The cage they were brought to the shelter in was a "large" pet store cage..

I have them in a 2x4 C&C cage now.. and mostly they seem to get along.. just one of them is a squealer.. if she doesn't like something, she squeals about it.. this includes the bully invading her personal space.

She will try to walk into the bully's personal space and the bully rumbles at her and nips at her until she goes away.

As I've been watching her, she seems to have gotten less submissive as the time goes by, which may explain the visibility of the bullying.

[kathlaaron]

I have the same issue with my 2 girls.. one of them always bullies the other one..

There are chunks of one girl's ear missing, but there has not been any blood since I've had them.. I adopted both of them together from the local shelter.. they came in in the same cage.

I take the victim out of the cage from time to time to watch her eat to make sure she gets her fair share, she seems to get enough to eat, but I don't like watching the bully nip her and chase her because she squeals bloody murder.

In all honesty it makes me angry. I try not to take it out on the bully since it is natural behavior.. but I hate seeing any of them pushed around.

It makes me VERY angry too. I have always been a person who quickly stands up and does/says something when I witness any kind of bullying or abuse. I am normally a very compassionate person but I do have memories of doing this when I was very young, and then when I was a little older in junior and senior high I got into a few fights defending someone that was being bullied.

I got into a lot of trouble for it, but I felt ( and my parents agreed ) I had no choice or that person would have gotten hurt physically. I did what I thought was the right thing to do. Only three times that I remember, twice in junior high, and once in my sophmore year of high school. For the most part, I believe that violence begets violence and does not solve anything most of the time. Most of the time, there is many other more appropriate ways to handle such things.

[Nicolene]

It makes me VERY angry too. I have always been a person who quickly stands up and does/says something when I witness any kind of bullying or abuse. I am normally a very compassionate person but I do have memories of doing this when I was very young, and then when I was a little older in junior and senior high I got into a few fights defending someone that was being bullied.

I got into a lot of trouble for it, but I felt ( and my parents agreed ) I had no choice or that person would have gotten hurt physically. I did what I thought was the right thing to do. Only three times that I remember, twice in junior high, and once in my sophmore year of high school. For the most part, I believe that violence begets violence and does not solve anything most of the time. Most of the time, there is many other more appropriate ways to handle such things.

You do realize we are taking animals here right? And the "bullying" that guinea pigs do is to establish their dominance, and there is nothing you can "do" about it, but wait it out and make sure no one gets hurt. I repeat, animals, natural instinct.. etc.

[kathlaaron]

You do realize we are taking animals here right? And the "bullying" that guinea pigs do is to establish their dominance, and there is nothing you can "do" about it, but wait it out and make sure no one gets hurt. I repeat, animals, natural instinct.. etc.

Dear Nicolene,
Oh yes, of course and I agree ! I was just trying to relate to ( not too well I suppose) how any kind of bullying makes me very angry, and in the beginning, before one has an accurate understanding on guinea pigs and their behavior,( how establishing dominance looks a lot like bullying) one may feel angry and so very tempted to jump in and rescue the " piggie victim" ! I went off topic and got carried away, sorry for the confusion. I just feel so bad for those that have to wait it out, and how heart-wrenching it must be to go through this with one's piggies.

[Andrmgic]

I realize that they are animals and that this is natural behavior. However, to me it appeared that dominance was already established, but the behavior continues so I suppose that the "victim" isn't as submissive as she appears.