Violet's Medical Thread (probably way too long)

[SquareWheels30]

First, I will give some background, and my apologies for any repetition of this basic information in my last post in the diet section: Violet is a 15 week old female. She was given to me at about 4 weeks of age less than a week after the death of my first guinea pig, a boar, Panda, in late June. Though she had just a bit of diarrhea in her first day with boyfriend and I, it cleared right up, and we assumed it was from the switch from an all-purpose rodent pellet to Cavy Performance pellets. She was indeed declared healthy at her first vet check-up.

Her second check up came all too soon when I heard a tiny abnormality in her breathing, not the dreaded click of a URI exactly, but abnormal nonetheless. The vet said Violet's lungs were perfectly clear. Violet hadn't been sneezing or coughing at all, and had exhibited no behavior changes, so the vet didn't diagnose a URI. However, she did hear the tiny intermittent noise that I had described, though this was after listening with her stethoscope for several minutes and then listening again at the end of the exam. She knew that we had just lost our first guinea pig to a relapse of severe URI/pneumonia, and that boyfriend and I, mostly me, were freaked out about the noise, she gave us a week of Bactrim just in case Violet was beginning to develop a URI. We gave it, the noise disappeared, and she checked out fine at her follow-up.

Now to the current issue, last week I made boyfriend take her to get checked out for a very intermittent cough and a teeth check because I noticed her always making a chewing motion with her jaw and possibly grinding her teeth (this was on the very day I made my diet post). When vet checked her, she said all her teeth, and most definitely back molars too, were perfect. She said she did notice while she was in there that Violet had completely full cheek pouches and that if they were always kept that full, then that accounted for the pretty constant jaw motion. Violet coughed at the end of the visit, when she was already back in her carrier and the vet said that since her lungs were clear and she was otherwise healthy that it was either a hay allergy (she was eating a piece of hay in carrier), or that she ate too fast or that she could be a pig with heart issues.

She said she doubted that it was Violet's heart, based on what, I don't know, and to observe what she was doing when she would cough and if she coughed most often during periods of high activity or when something scared her, to bring her back for an x-ray to look at her heart. She said that if my boyfriend were going to bring her back for the x-ray to try to wait until she was at least 6 months old because the x-ray would be easier to read, and therefore make a diagnosis, at that point.

Is she right or are we fools for waiting? We found her on the Texas Rustlers Guinea Pig Rescue rec page, so she should be a good vet. She wasn't Panda's vet, I don't think that vet acted quickly enough or treated agressively enough. Anyway, the "good" vet and my boyfriend may not think heart issues are likely, but I think she very well could be a heart pig.

Also, Violet sometimes sleeps puffed up, does this mean she's in some kind of pain? When awake, she can be very vocal sometimes, and she was as vocal as ever just yesterday. She always wheeks at kitchen sounds and chuts when you talk to her or when playing, which is pretty often.

Yesterday though, she chutted when anyone spoke at all, not just to her. It sounds conversational almost, with varied tones and types of noise. It definitely seems like good, happy noise, but how would I know if any of the noises were pain? I have figured out that she's been in season this week, I think, if that matters.

I am so worried that she's a heart pig and will have issues all her life, so I want to make sure I know when/if she's in pain. We took care of Panda so carefully and tried so hard to make sure he was as comfortable as possible, you'd think I'd know when a pig was in pain, but I just don't with her she's very active and isn't sitting in the corner or the pigloo always puffed up.

I apologize so sincerely for the length of this. I've a few more questions but I'll be lucky if anyone reads this whole thing, so I just put in my most important questions. Thank you!!!!! I have really learned so much from this board and Guinea Lynx already!

[SquareWheels30]

Violet seems to be eating and eliminating normally after ingesting a somewhat large amount of my hair yesterday morning. However, her eyes are watery, she seems lethargic and when we weighed her yesterday, we found that she was 5 oz down from her last weigh-in on Sept. 22. I know that is not a huge loss by any means, and the loss is probably completely unrelated to the hair thing, but regardless of whether it's related or not, she's never lost even a single ounce before. She has always, always gained.

With the slight lethargy, watery eyes, small weight loss and the fact that her intermittent cough from my 1st post in this thread has changed into a little choking noise that happens most often while she's not eating in mind, we have decided to try to get her in on Friday for a full check-up and the x-ray to check for heart enlargement.

Our vet did say it would be best to wait until she was 6 months old for the x-ray, but I'm scared to wait any more and Violet is close to 6 months. She'll be 18 weeks on Saturday.

[SquareWheels30]

I meant to say that before now, she's never even lost a single gram, not ounce. Her losing an entire ounce would have us at the emergency vet!

[Sirene]

5 oz down from her last weigh-in on Sept. 22.

5 oz or 0.5 oz? Either way, I think you're doing the right thing by getting her checked out tomorrow, given the other symptoms you describe. Please let us know how it goes!

[SquareWheels30]

Sirene, Yes, I meant grams. I'm sorry, I'm a little panicked. She's never had any loss at all ever. Don't even yet know if we can get in tomorrow, waiting on a call back. If not tomorrow, we'll have to wait til Tues, cause our vet has every Monday off. *sigh* We may be at the emergency vet this weekend anyway if she gets worse before Tues. Still hoping for tomorrow.

[SquareWheels30]

She has her appointment for Sat at 9 in the morning. I didn't know they were open on Sat, and I am beyond thankful that we don't have to wait until Tues.

She is scaring me even more now. She was 715 grams at 4pm yesterday and 702 grams at 4pm today.

She hasn't stopped eating and drinking though, so that's absolutely fantastic!

I'm still so scared, she was having massive weight gains each week, and now this.

[SquareWheels30]

Violet's appointment had to be re-scheduled due to a financial shortage. I miscalculated something somehow and if we'd taken her we wouldn't have made rent. I feel terrible. We weighed her this morning before canceling to make sure she hadn't had another drastic weight loss overnight and she was 765! Our scale is not broken, we checked and re-checked!
The majority of that was food weight as we foolishly weighed her right after her morning salad but I'm still fairly sure she gained back what she lost. Her new appointment is tentatively set for Wednesday.

[Deb's4Pigs]

I'm glad she gained weight.

[SquareWheels30]

Thanks so much!! She is back to all gains, no losses now. She is still going to the vet because she's scared me so badly with this little losing trend she had. Plus, I won't truly relax until she gets her x-ray.

Here's 2 questions about x-rays: Do you know if she'll have to be sedated or does that just depend on vet preference? And should I object to sedation if our vet does want to do it because I've read sedation is more dangerous for a pig if the pig might have heart issues?

[SquareWheels30]

Due to several issues, Violet just had her appointment today. All symptoms such as weight loss and watery eyes had resolved themselves, but she does still have the problem with intermittent coughing and choking so that is what she was seen for.

The vet heard a heart murmur. It was undetectable at Violet's last appointment on 9/8, almost exactly a month ago.

I do not know what to think because instead of going ahead with the x-ray like I wanted, the vet now wants to consult with a colleague in Dallas to make sure a sonogram wouldn't be a better option.

She seemed uncomfortable when my boyfriend brought up a trial of heart medication. I hope this doesn't mean we are going to have a problem getting what she needs.

We should hear back from the vet on the x-ray versus sonogram question by the end of the week, and if we don't, we will be contacting her.

In the meantime, I am very grateful that the vet said Violet is in perfect health except for the heart murmur.

[Stacy123]

First of all, I want to commend you for being so proactive on behalf of Violet's health. I have an awesome vet, and if you were in MN, I'd gladly give you his name. What makes him so awesome is he explains everything, is very thorough and I know he genuinely cares about my pets. You should be getting the same thing from your vet. They should be explaining to you why they want to do a sonogram vs an XRAY, what they think could be the issue and what the possible treatments are. I do want to tell you, I had a guinea pig with heart problems. Chloe had heart failure where the heart isn't beating effectively and fluid was building up in her lungs. She had chronic respiratory infections because of this. However, she lived six years which is really good for a guinea pig with health problems. I was really on top of her health care which included medications at times, and she had a good quality of life. I really really loved Chloe and tried to give her the best life I could. So...I know it's scary to think about little Violet having a heart condition, but it's not necessarily something that couldn't be treated. So keep on that vet and make sure you are getting your questions answered to your satisfaction. I hope everything turns out ok, and it's something that can be treated and managed, like Chloe's condition. Please keep us posted. *hugs*

[SquareWheels30]

Thanks for your support, Stacy! I am pretty sure the reason the vet is looking into doing a sonogram instead of an x-ray is because there's a good possibility that Violet would need to be sedated in order to remain still enough to get a clear x-ray, and Violet's heart murmur makes being sedated much more dangerous for her.

When the vet calls back, before discussing anything else, I will have my boyfriend ask her about attempting the x-ray without sedation. It seems like though, that if she was open to attempting that, she would've done so when she saw Violet the other day.

It is clear that neither my boyfriend nor I have been assertive enough about questioning her.

I can't wait until we have a picture of Violet's heart, one way or the other, and can move on to the discussion of medication so our little one can be safe!

[Domino & Bedhead]

It is so nice to see someone cares so much. I read some of the posts in this forum and I cringe. I did all I possibly could for my little Ernie too and you do worry and you have to trust the vets which can be nervewracking sometimes if you don't know what to ask for sure and how to be persistent still being nice. Your little one is very lucky to have the two of you care so much. You are doing a wonderful job in doing everything you can. :-) Piggie huggzzz from Domino and Bedhead!

[donaldsl]

A sonogram can sometimes be more useful than an x-ray in this case because the can look at the heart over a longer period of time. It is much the same as an ultrasound for a pregnant woman. With the mummer it may be more effective.

An x-ray will give you a second in time shot of her heart, where as a sonogram will allow the vets to take a look over a longer amount of time. Again think of a pregnant woman and her baby. To hear and look at the heart they use a sonogram, which it a type of ultrasound. It is also only sound waves vs. radiation. Which means that the vets can get a more accurate image while holding your piggie in a "safer" (if only for her) environment.

I hope this helps! Hugs from Hannah and Milley!

[SquareWheels30]

We finally heard back from the vet this afternoon, who says that her Dallas colleague just contacted her this morning, only to tell her that she no longer has a sonogram machine.

We discussed the sonogram and for the reason mentioned in the previous post by Donaldsl, that a sonogram would give the vet a view of her heart for more than a second, it would be the best diagnostic option for Violet. However, the vet agreed to try an x-ray without sedation. I think this will work just fine, as Violet really, really LOVES and trusts this vet, and so I think the vet could keep her calm and still enough to get a good x-ray on the first try. If Violet does move, I believe the vet said she would make a second attempt free of charge.

If the vet finds after the x-ray that she needs a better look at Violet's heart, an action shot, so to speak, then we will go to Gulf Coast Avian & Exotics Hospital in Houston. It is about 6 hours away from us, but my mom and other family members live near Houston so it won't be very difficult to travel there.

I'm happy that we finally heard back from our vet after approximately 10 calls from us since Violet's last appointment on October 12, but I'm a little frustrated because I would've agreed to an x-ray on that date.

We will schedule the x-ray for the first week in November, I think.

[Shurrim]

I hope Violet will be ok. Any change in her general condition?

[SquareWheels30]

There has been no negative change in her condition, the only change she's had is weight gain. And maybe a slight reduction in the frequency of the coughing/choking thing that first brought our attention to this problem. It's hard to tell for sure because it's so random, but I think she's only been doing it once a day for the past several days. She's still popcorning, begging for extra veggies and eating very, very well! Thanks for asking Shurrim!

[Deb's4Pigs]

I'm glad she's still eating well. I hope the x ray goes well.

[SquareWheels30]

Violet had her x-ray and another full check up Tuesday, November 2nd. Her choking/coughing thing had flared up really badly the day before, so I was more than ready for this appointment. Violet happened to sneeze twice as soon as the vet came in, so the first thing the vet did was listen to Violet's lungs for 2 full minutes to make sure Violet hadn't developed a URI.

Her lungs sounded clear but vet said she'd look carefully at Violet's lungs on x-ray just in case. She picked Violet up very gently, held her to her chest and went to take her out to the x-ray machine, petting her and talking soothingly as she went out the door. I mention this only because I was impressed by it and think it is probably why Violet did so well during the two x-rays that were taken.

After the first one, a vet tech brought Violet back and said we could go ahead and get her comfortable in her carrier because the only thing left to do was discuss the x-ray. We did so only to have the vet come back in a few minutes later to take a second x-ray because the first one had turned out too dark. Violet put up with being taken back out of her carrier very well and the vet repeated her awesome soothing actions as she took her.

After, the vet tech brought Violet back to us and said that we should keep her out of the carrier this time just in case. Vet soon came in and said that Violet could safely be put back in carrier because the second film was very clear.

First, she said Violet's lungs looked completely clear and then she said her heart was only slightly enlarged and she had no fluid built up around her heart or anywhere else in her body for that matter. She said that in fact, Violet's heart enlargement didn't look severe enough to be causing the coughing/choking thing and so she wanted to try a course of antibiotics just to make sure Violet hadn't been carrying around a very mild URI for a while because if she had one, it could get very severe overnight (as I know very well).

So if the antibiotics don't effect the coughing, vet said, we are to bring Violet back to discuss other treatment options. Here's where I jumped in and said that I wondered if he could try a trial of heart medications at that time because I'd read of cases where pigs who appeared to have very slight heart problems exhibit a HUGE increase in energy and activity etc once they are put on heart meds. Though the idea of a heart med trial doesn't seem to have occurred to her before I mentioned it, she said it made a lot of sense and was all for it! Yay!! We then discussed how unlikely it is that this coughing/choking could be caused by allergies. And that though boyfriend and I think that Violet has a normal energy level we might not know what a normal energy level is in a pig given that our very first pig was so sick and died so young.

Anyway, the vet seems excited about trying these meds, though she does want us to give the antibiotics a chance first just in case Violet's coughing may be caused by a URI. I don't think this is likely but I'm a very, very anxious person and would not have been able to ignore the possibility since the vet brought it up.

I will update when Violet finishes the antibiotics.

Note: It's a big deal for me to have jumped in and suggested the trial, I often don't jump to offer my opinion/suggestion in any situation because I'm generally ignored. It is very easy for people to literally talk over my head as I'm sitting in my chair and they are standing. I'm so glad our vet listened to me and besides that, more importantly than that, Violet very obviously remembers her at each visit and really, really likes her. If anyone in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area is searching for a vet, I'd be more than happy to give out her name. Her practice is small and everyone is very sweet.

[blackarrow]

Good for you for taking her in and for playing an active role in her care. Way to go, and good luck to you and your plucky little Violet!