Advice Please: Dominant boar will not leave brother alone!

[Franks98]

Hi Everyone,

This is my first post here. I'll post an introduction in that section later with some cute pictures of my little fatheads (this is what I've come to call them), but at the moment I'm struggling to figure out a solution to my problem.

A little background. I adopted 3 little fatheads, 3 brothers just about 8 months ago. I went and adopted the one, but then felt so guilty about splitting him up from his brothers that the next day I went and got the other two. I just got another little guy a few days ago, who is fitting in quite well.

My issue though has always been with one of the brothers constantly showing dominant behavior over another one of his brothers. By this, I mean he is always ALWAYS trying to hump him (I'm sure there's a better way to put that, but I'm sure you get the picture). He doesn't ever bite or attack him but he is constantly rumbling, following him around and humping him. I had them separated with the submissive in a separate cage right next to the dominant and his brother who the dominant one doesn't ever bother. This works, however, the dominant one then is constantly gnawing on the cage and screeching at the submissive one. Just a few days ago, in preparation for my newest addition, I built a 15 sq. ft. C&G cage. I figured with this that I could have all four little fatheads together and that with two different food and drink stations and plenty of hideaways, the constant humping would stop.

Nope, hasn't stopped. Whenever they are active, the dominant is always rumbling and following the submissive and humping him. The submissive is still eating and drinking, but at times he is getting humped while doing this. He isn't particularly stressed, but I worry that he could be much happier without this constant behavior.

One theory of mine is that the submissive has over active anal glands that are attracting the other guy. Sometimes when I hold him I can smell him whereas I have never noticed this with the other fatheads.

Another thing that I've noticed is that when the dominant is rumbling after the submissive, his testicles become engorged and at times his penis will become erect. To me this seems more like sexual behavior than dominance behavior. Maybe I just have a homosexual guinea pig who has found the love of his life? I don't know.

And, I know that many may wonder if the submissive is actually female. I can assure you that he is not. He has um... very pronounced testicles and I have seen him with an erection.

Today, I just couldn't take it anymore and separated out the dominant. Now he is in another room and quite sad. I feel bad because he is such a social guy, but I cannot stand this behavior and I won't let the submissive be constantly having to deal with this behavior.

Any advice and suggestions would be helpful. I know that people say that neutering doesn't solve dominance issues, but when it seems so sexually charged, I wonder if it would. Thanks, it's nice to be here.

[MomTo4Boys]

I don't have any advice, but just wanted to say that I'm going through the same thing with our two male piggies. I tried seperation, but the dominant one started making an extremely loud high pitched noise immediately when he couldn't find the younger boar. It was very annoying when we were trying to sleep. I seperated them right before going to bed to give poor Mario a break from his friend's behavior. Their cage is in our living room, but our bedroom is right off of the living room and I could hear Luigi's high pitched "scream" through my closed bedroom door.

[Franks98]

It seems that my problem has sort of worked itself out... for the most part. Since they've been in the same cage now for about 3 weeks, the submissive one has become much more better at standing up for himself and the dominant one has backed off a bit. It's still a bit of an issue, but I'm just letting them work it out without interfering. After reading a bunch of posts on the subject, it seems that the general consensus is to just let them be as long as there is no fighting.

I think what also helped was building the new cage. There's a few different hiding spots available and separate food and water sources, so the submissive can always get away from the dominant if he wants to.

Best of luck!

[louie_joey]

I have 2 boars and they went through the same thing for a few months. Louie was constantly being hassled by Joey. Although it was hard for me to watch, in time they sorted things out and they are living peacefully for the most part. When Louie was being hassled I would make sure to offer him a small pile of hay and pellets as well as his veggies when he had his lap time so that he had a chance to relax and eat in peace. It will not change the dominant pig's behaviour if you get him neutered, that is just his personality by nature!
Good luck with the pigs, and welcome to the forum!

[akstrohm]

Leave them together. The more you separate them, the more stressful it becomes for them. When the quarantine is finished for your new pig, you might want to split them into two groups of two.

[Catayn]

My boys kind of started trying to get some problmes, but they solved it by themselves. I'd let them together. They'll work it out.

[JD In Van]

This is all very normal when you have a lot of cavies in adolecence at the same time. unless they're shedding blood you should leave them together. Also 15 square feet might not be enough for 4 males, especially if you have a strongely dominate one. You probably want to be closer to 16-18.

[animallover2424]

On cavycages.com it says that a 3x5 cage is fine for 4 guinea pigs.

[JD In Van]

On cavycages.com it says that a 3x5 cage is fine for 4 guinea pigs.

Just a few days ago, in preparation for my newest addition, I built a 15 sq. ft. C&G cage. I figured with this that I could have all four little fatheads together and that with two different food and drink stations and plenty of hideaways, the constant humping would stop.

15 sq feet isn't 3 x 5 cubes that would be closer to 23.5 sq. feet and is more than acceptable.

2 x 6 grids (13 square feet) is the minimum for 4 females. (though I know I point out all the time that if we're going to recommend more we should have that posted on the site).

But males in their first year need more room. I have 2 males in 10.5 sq feet (which some members think isn't even enough) I wouldn't do 4 in anything less then double that.

Also with males 2 of everything isn't enough, you need one of everything for each male +1. So if you have 4 males that's 5 hidies (preferably with 2 exits), 5 bowls, ect, when dominance is an issue.

[MomTo4Boys]

After reading the replies, I will keep our two boys together. They aren't shedding blood even though Luigi does sometimes bites on Mario's ears when he tries to mount him, but not hard enough to draw blood. I will do what someone here posted on this thread. About giving the submisive piggie food, water and their veggies while having lap time. Mario does look underweight even though he does eat. He might not be getting enough though since he's being chased constantly by Luigi.

I have placed food on both levels of the cage, and today I'm going to pick up another water bottle when I go to the grocery store. I'm sure walmart carries at least water bottles. I need to get them more veggies anyway. I just built their new cage yesterday. It took me 5 hours to build that 2 story cage! Talk about exhausting.

[JD In Van]

After reading the replies, I will keep our two boys together. They aren't shedding blood even though Luigi does sometimes bites on Mario's ears when he tries to mount him, but not hard enough to draw blood. I will do what someone here posted on this thread. About giving the submisive piggie food, water and their veggies while having lap time. Mario does look underweight even though he does eat. He might not be getting enough though since he's being chased constantly by Luigi.

Nipping can be more stressful for us then it actually is for them. So long as he's not bleeding it's fine. I put food on opposite sides of the cage so that my bigger guy can't guard both piles at once personally.

As for weight you should be weighing them weekly. If Mario's underweight and loosing oz. he should go to the vet because he could have an infection or parasite that are the real problem.

[2pigs2kids]

2 x 6 grids (13 square feet) is the minimum for 4 females.

Converting grids into sq feet is so confusing to me. The way I understood it was that 2x6 was around 15 sq feet (a 2x3 is 7.5 sq ft, right?). I just want to make sure I'm understanding it correctly b/c I'm going to be expanding again. Thanks!

[JD In Van]

Converting grids into sq feet is so confusing to me. The way I understood it was that 2x6 was around 15 sq feet (a 2x3 is 7.5 sq ft, right?). I just want to make sure I'm understanding it correctly b/c I'm going to be expanding again. Thanks!

Grids are about 14" each. So you have:

24 (2 x 14) width times 84 (6 x 14)

which equals 2016 square inches

divide that by 144 (a square foot) and it = 14 square feet including the grids and coroplast and lining.

The internal measurements would be slightly smaller because of the space the grids and coroplast take up. The front page lists 2 x 6 as 13 square feet (Probably for this reason).

By my math 2 x 3 grids is actually only 7 square feet.

[lissie]

Your math is a bit off. The short side should be 2x14" = 28" not 24"

[JD In Van]

Your math is a bit off. The short side should be 2x14" = 28" not 24"

That would explain where the missing inches went. I stand corrected!

[2pigs2kids]

Grids are about 14" each. So you have:

24 (2 x 14) width times 84 (6 x 14)

which equals 2016 square inches

divide that by 144 (a square foot) and it = 14 square feet including the grids and coroplast and lining.

Thanks! This helps! I knew I went into social work for a reason, no math required

The front page lists 2 x 6 as 13 square feet (Probably for this reason).

By my math 2 x 3 grids is actually only 7 square feet.

So, the way I read the home page they are listing a 2x5 as 13 sq ft, not a 2x6?
So it would be:
28 (2 grids) x 70 (4 grids) = 1960
Divided by 144 = 13.61 sq ft

Did I finally get it?