I am building an outdoor guinea pig hutch.

[blackarrow]

Originally Posted by Amiee

I'm just trying to say all of Canada is not a frozen wasteland, and latitude is not all that determines climate.

1. No one said any such thing.
2. It's off topic.

[Amiee]

Ok, I apologize. I forgot that this is not the place to give a geography/climatology lesson. The focus is guinea pigs and their housing. I fully agree that guinea pigs should be kept indoors (and always did) even if you live in the tropics - temperature is not the only reason to keep them in, as has been discussed in this thread.

To defend what I did say, some Canadians might care if it 'sounds much worse' as we can be sensitive to such stereotypes from our Southern neighbours, especially if we forget what forum we're on. The polar easterlies prevailing winds stop for the most part at 60 degrees North latitude - the prevailing winds in most of Canada are from the southwest (which is, of course, not to say they never get wind from the North). There's also the effect of the jetstream, ocean currents, etc.

So, again, sorry for forgetting that others don't care as much as I do about correct geography/climatology. What matters is the message about piggie housing. Outside habitats are not suitable for guinea pigs - ANYWHERE.

[crazywiggy]

Wow - so many things to say I hardly know where to start...

1) England. Many people keep pigs the "traditional" way in a outdoor hutch. All the books, websites, and many rescues advocate this type of housing. That doesn't make it right!! Most of the info available in the UK is the outdated, breeder espoused rubbish.

I had one outdoor pet - a rabbit - as a child. He died at only 2 years old from pneumonia. Never again.

Pets at home is horrible - crap products, high turnover of animals (from BYBs), poor care etc. Only last week a friend of a friend found her new pigs were mis-sexed and one is now pregnant. They refuse to guarantee the sex of their animals despite having a vet in the store!

2) Upper levels don't count. So the difference is 16 sq feet rather than 10? Not much, when 10 is technically big enough anyway. I personally don't think all the risks are worth it.

3) Some said just because outdoor animals live longer etc, how is it better? Are you serious??

Living outdoors causes suffering. Having a predator sniffing round your hutch is far more stressful than hearing the TV. Being freezing cold, boiling hot, damp, sitting in a draft etc is uncomfortable. Being ill from the poor environment causes suffering.

I would have thought it was quite obvious that keeping animals indoor where they are safe and comfortable is better than outdoors in conditions which cause stress, discomfort, illness and have a high risk of early death.

4) Rescue animals come from breeders originally so it makes no difference?

Again - are people really that stupid!?

Buying an animal from a breeder (either directly or via a pet shop) funds and encourages further breeding. It opens up a space, provides the money and the incentive to breed yet more animals into an overpopulated world. More animals to end up in rescue.

If people stopped buying animals from breeders / stores, then few would be bred and few if any would be euthanased or dumped in rescues.

Getting a rescue animal does not support the breeders or stores in any way - the damage has already been done by the intial purchaser. They do not encourage or fund breeding. Any adoption fee goes to saving more animals that would otherwise be DEAD for want of a home.

Finally - It really is simple...

1) Buying animals from breeders is irresponsible and unethical whilst there is overpopulation. Buying from pet shops (therefore the very worst breeders) can NEVER be justified. Buying from a store because you "can't find pigs to adopt" is a crap excuse - but buying pigs because you can't provide proper care (according to the rescue) is downright offensive.

2) Outdoor housing is bad. It is not safe, not healthy, not appropriate. It causes suffering, sickness and death.

Seriously - if people can't provide proper care they should not get the pets!

[Paula]

Originally Posted by Jessskater1

So my point is that your guinea pigs can live outside and be way more happy to breath in the fresh air than be in a house.

Sure, they can live outside. But that doesn't mean they should. I'm sure my dog would live if I fed her nothing but raw chicken necks and Ruffles potato chips. Does that mean she should live that way? Eh, no, I hardly think so.

Originally Posted by silkiepoo

OH SHOCK, OH GASP! Guess where rescues get their cavies? BREEDERS.
And if not, where do you think the people before the rescue got them, BREEDERS.

Yes, and the whole reason the rescues have to exist in the first place is because those breeders care about nothing more than a profit, and therefore will sell their stock to anyone and anything with the money to pay. So you have people that make impulse buys in pet stores and then realize they got way more than they bargained for and dump them in rescues. Your argument here is severely lacking in any kind of logic.

Originally Posted by Amiee

To defend what I did say, some Canadians might care if it 'sounds much worse' as we can be sensitive to such stereotypes from our Southern neighbours, especially if we forget what forum we're on.

I'm sorry, but I don't see that any stereotype was applied anywhere. No one implied or suggested that Canada is a barren wasteland. What was stated was that it's not an appropriate climate for a guinea pig to live outdoors. Since you seem to agree with that I'm really uncertain why you're carrying on about geography and climatology. Seriously.

[Jessskater1]

Just to clarify something, my guinea pigs live outside in a hutchXrun in the summer and spring. I wouldn't dare leave them outside in the winter or fall. Thats why i have a heated shed for winter and fall. Sorry if i left that out earlier.

[rabbitsncavyluv]

Originally Posted by silkiepoo

OH SHOCK, OH GASP! Guess where rescues get their cavies? BREEDERS.
And if not, where do you think the people before the rescue got them, BREEDERS.

Yeah, them rescues should be thanking breeders for keeping them "in business" and for selling to idiots who neglect and dump their purpose bred guinea pigs months later after buying them.

[juliaaa]

Originally Posted by Jessskater1

Just to clarify something, my guinea pigs live outside in a hutchXrun in the summer and spring. I wouldn't dare leave them outside in the winter or fall. Thats why i have a heated shed for winter and fall. Sorry if i left that out earlier.

The point of this discussion is that guinea pigs should not be living outside at all, no matter what the season. What happens if they get too hot during the summer? Also, a shed is not a good replacement for a house. If they're always outside, away from the family, the chances of you noticing an ailment are drastically reduced.

[silkiepoo]

After reading most of this thread. This is pathetic. This forum, website, is just trying to promote these stupid breakable indoor square thingies. The mods are most judgmental people I have ever seen in my LIFE. Having a whinge when somebody does something they don't like. 'My cavies are outside' whinge, 'I don't like C&C' cry --except for VoodooJoint and CavySpirit. And once again someone said all information in Britain of guinea pigs in outdated. COUGH COUGH. No information on animals is outdated. I could write a book and say that guinea pigs eat meat. BANG, Americans think that's true.

Can't we just all get along? Seriously, I am sick and tired of reading such pathetic discussions when we can be friends if it wasn't for all these bloody immature cage-preachers.

-- Can we close this thread?

[VoodooJoint]

Originally Posted by silkiepoo

This forum, website, is just trying to promote these stupid breakable indoor square thingies.

Gee did you just figure that out? YES! This WHOLE website is for promoting C&C cages. It's kinda the entire purpose of this site, it's called "Guinea Pig Cages" and I do believe that the homepage of this site might just make a mention about these types of cages and why they are the best choice for housing.

Originally Posted by silkiepoo

except for VoodooJoint and CavySpirit.

I take great exception to that. I am just as judgmental and whinge just as much as any other mod here.

By the way, you are whinging right now too. Welcome to the club.

Originally Posted by silkiepoo

Can't we just all get along?

No we can't. It's a rather naive question.

I don't "get along" with thieves, liars, slackers or animal neglecters. I don't like them and think they are pretty poor examples of humanity. If they change their ways then maybe I'll "get along" with them then.

Originally Posted by silkiepoo

I am sick and tired of reading such pathetic discussions when we can be friends if it wasn't for all these bloody immature cage-preachers.

Then don't read them and certainly don't respond to them.

If you can't embrace logic and take better care of your animals AND encourage others to do the same then I don't really want to be your friend and I think a lot of other people on this website feel the same. You will just have to come to grips with that.

Originally Posted by silkiepoo

Can we close this thread?

No.

[CavyMama]

Originally Posted by silkiepoo

After reading most of this thread. This is pathetic. This forum, website, is just trying to promote these stupid breakable indoor square thingies. The mods are most judgmental people I have ever seen in my LIFE. Having a whinge when somebody does something they don't like. 'My cavies are outside' whinge, 'I don't like C&C' cry --except for VoodooJoint and CavySpirit. And once again someone said all information in Britain of guinea pigs in outdated. COUGH COUGH. No information on animals is outdated. I could write a book and say that guinea pigs eat meat. BANG, Americans think that's true.

Can't we just all get along? Seriously, I am sick and tired of reading such pathetic discussions when we can be friends if it wasn't for all these bloody immature cage-preachers.

-- Can we close this thread?

Okay first, what "indoor breakable square thingees" are you talking about? If you mean C&C cages, I would have to disagree. I've never had a problem with any of mine (or any part of them) breaking. If they haven't been secured properly, then yes, it's possible for the grids to separate but as long as you make sure the grids are securely connected, it shouldn't break.

If you mean store-bought cages, I've only owned one and that was with my original pig, before I discovered C&C cages but actually that one never broke either so I'm having a hard time figuring out what you mean by "indoor breakable square thingees".

You call the mods judgemental all while talking about how they "whinge"(??) when people disagree but is that not what YOU are doing? You also say Americans believe anything they hear, is this not judgemental?? Come to think of it, this isn't the first time I've seen you pass judgement on Americans and although I believe people are allowed to believe what they want, you seem to have a particularly big chip on your shoulder about it.

You get angry when people don't support you but when you make these baseless sweeping statements about a large group (Americans) on this forum, what do you expect??

You claim that "no information on animals is outdated". Well it depends on where you are getting your information. Many books they sell about guinea pigs ARE indeed outdated and inaccurate. Most of the copyrights are over 10 years old.

The long and the short of it is this: This is an open forum. Not everyone is going to agree all the time. You knew this when you signed up. No one is forcing you to stay.

[MapleSyrup]

^ I agree with these people. silkiepoo, I understand that this forum can feel like they bash people, but they are stating the facts very formerly.

I was lurking around the site before I joined, and I have seen people in this forum being hard-headed because they think that whatever they are doing is right, but, in fact they are wrong.

The mods on this site work very hard to keep this site up and running. I feel that this site is very informative and if you can't see that, then don't come here anymore. If you think the mods are being judgemental, think again. They are trying to state facts to help piggie's life with the owner.

Your comments on Americans was very unessary and judgemental. You should think about what you are going type before posting such offensive comments. Many users, including me live in America and find your comments rude.

I saw your post on C&C cages, stating that the one you built is breaking apart. If you built it properly, the cage would be a good home. But you think C&C cages are "stupid breakable indoor square thingies" I am currently using a C&C cage, and it is great! My Maple is very happy and is popcorning more often, then being in a pet store cage which is now in the basement.

Also pet care can be outdated. I bought a book(Didn't know any better back then, before I found this site.) and many of the facts in the book are outdated.

Sorry about the long post.

[Ly&Pigs]

Originally Posted by silkiepoo

After reading most of this thread. This is pathetic. This forum, website, is just trying to promote these stupid breakable indoor square thingies. The mods are most judgmental people I have ever seen in my LIFE. Having a whinge when somebody does something they don't like. 'My cavies are outside' whinge, 'I don't like C&C' cry --except for VoodooJoint and CavySpirit. And once again someone said all information in Britain of guinea pigs in outdated. COUGH COUGH. No information on animals is outdated. I could write a book and say that guinea pigs eat meat. BANG, Americans think that's true.

Can't we just all get along? Seriously, I am sick and tired of reading such pathetic discussions when we can be friends if it wasn't for all these bloody immature cage-preachers.

-- Can we close this thread?

I don't even know where to start. Maybe by being judgmental and whiney, might as well live up to what I am being accused of.

I'm sick of your blasé attitude towards proper care. I'm sick of your useless posts. I'm also quite tired of you taking something someone said and twisting it totally around to suit your own needs. No one said ALL the info in Britain is outdated. And how dare you slight Americans in the way that you did. That was totally unncessesary and uncalled for. I took great offense at the comment and I'm sure others did as well.

You are just so naive. I think you are just miffed that we mods wouldn't approve some of your posts where you gave poor/bad advice and claimed to be some sort of expert on silkies/shelties, so you are getting back at the forum and us mods in any way that you can. We don't know you from Adam and we certainly don't allow bad or very poor advice to be given here. Why should we?

I'm not here to be your friend, I am here for the welfare of our furry little friends. I am also here as a moderator/administrator to help ensure the forum runs by the rules that it's set forth. If that makes me an oh so horrible person than so be it. Hey, but at least I am not a breeder and I don't house my pigs outside where they could get heat strokes, freeze to death, get stolen or eaten by predators.

If you don't like it here, there are many other forums out there.

I also want to say that if any of the other mods feel like I need an infraction for this post, well I'm not above the rules.

[Paula]

Originally Posted by silkiepoo

This forum, website, is just trying to promote these stupid breakable indoor square thingies.

Your powers of observation are truly impressive, silkiepoo. Wow.

Originally Posted by silkiepoo

The mods are most judgmental people I have ever seen in my LIFE.

Thank you, actually. Because generally, it's being 'judgmental" that brings about change. So if my being judgmental causes someone to wake up and do right by their pets, well, so be it. I can deal.

Originally Posted by silkiepoo

Having a whinge when somebody does something they don't like.

It's not so much a matter of not 'liking' ... It's a matter of knowing you're doing something that is dangerous or inappropriate for animals for which we care greatly and dearly love. If you want to provide pathetic care to animals that depend on you, fine. Shut up about it, keep it to yourself instead of bragging about it here. Then you won't be giving us anything whine or preach about. What a fantastic concept.

Originally Posted by silkiepoo

I could write a book and say that guinea pigs eat meat. BANG, Americans think that's true.

My, that's a brilliant idea. Why don't you take a break from this site that pains you so and go write your masterpiece?

Originally Posted by silkiepoo

Seriously, I am sick and tired of reading such pathetic discussions when we can be friends if it wasn't for all these bloody immature cage-preachers.

I don't really want to be friends with people that can't be bothered to do right by their pets, so it's really ok. And if you're so sick and tired of our "pathetic discussions" why do you keep torturing yourself by not only reading them, but by participating in them? This baffles me. Perhaps you can enlighten me.

Cheers.

[silkiepoo]

Originally Posted by MapleSyrup

Your comments on Americans was very unessary and judgemental. You should think about what you are going type before posting such offensive comments. Many users, including me live in America and find your comments rude.

If have actually read all posts Maple. You would realise why I said that about Americans.

[Paula]

Originally Posted by silkiepoo

If have actually read all posts Maple. You would realise why I said that about Americans.

Ugh, no. Actually the only one who is able to make any sense out of your disturbingly skewed sense of logic is probably ... you.

[silkiepoo]

Originally Posted by CavyMama

You claim that "no information on animals is outdated". Well it depends on where you are getting your information. Many books they sell about guinea pigs ARE indeed outdated and inaccurate. Most of the copyrights are over 10 years old.

Actually, you don't depict what the word 'outdated' utterly means.

Outdated - When a rule or statement is changed, the previous rule or statement becomes outdated.

[Paula]

Originally Posted by silkiepoo

Outdated - When a rule or statement is changed, the previous rule or statement becomes outdated.

Really? All you're left with is defining words as a means to validate your argument?

I think it's definitely in your best interest to focus your energy on providing better care to your guinea pigs instead of continually attempting and failing to pick apart the reasons and arguments for doing so.

And another thing. For a person so uppity about the stereotypes you feel are being applied to the British, you're awfully quick with the judgments on Americans.

[Fudgenrolo]

You know what I don't get?! Why on earth someone joins a forum when they disagree with all the principles and animal care standards it tries so hard to promote.

It doesn't take a lot of reading around a forum to get a 'feel' of the ethics that it promotes. I read on here a lot before joining. There was a long gap between joining and me actually posting on here - perhaps mainly due to the fact that I realised not long after I joined that I would have to wait a good while to be able to adopt any Guinea Pigs. But I freely admit that I wasn't sure about some of the things I read on here.... including the all-out stance against keeping Guinea Pigs outside, ever.

But that was then. I thought about it and came back here when I knew I was definitely wanting to adopt pigs in the near future and I realised that it made sense. We lost a beloved chinchilla recently. She went downhill so ridiculously fast it was awful and though we got her to a vet very quickly she died. It made me think as I had previously been considering getting a pair of rabbits to keep outside but now I stopped and wondered because we lost our little girl even though she was in our home and we saw her several times a day - so what if an outside pet got sick? How would it stand a chance being seen closely only a couple of times a day?

So I came back happy in the knowledge that I fully agreed with the principle of keeping pets indoors. If I really didn't feel that way - I could quite simply have gone elsewhere - there are several other Guinea Pig forums - including a few UK based ones that I know of so why take part in the forum if you don't agree with some of the basic care principles that are promoted here? What is the point? And insulting all Americans? How wrong is that?!

All that I have since learnt here has only further confirmed my feelings about keeping my future Pigs indoors and I can only say a big 'thank you' to my US friends for the information provided here and for the very idea of C&C cages. x

[Wodentoad]

Silkiepoo: Wait, I think I must have read your "definition" post incorrectly. Are you refuting your own argument? Otherwise why define outdated? Perhaps I'm just being an "American." (Sorry, couldn't resist. Bad, Toad, BAD!)

They once thought that guinea pigs only needed a litter box to live in, that beating an Elephant (or any other animal) was the only way to get it to perform, and let's not even start with the veterinary advancements that turn old school treatments on their heads. Animal information becomes outdated frequently. Up to date books and up to the second internet keeps our animals in the best situations we know how.

[rabbitsncavyluv]

I don't understand a word you are trying to say.

Originally Posted by silkiepoo

After reading most of this thread. This is pathetic. This forum, website, is just trying to promote these stupid breakable indoor square thingies. The mods are most judgmental people I have ever seen in my LIFE. Having a whinge when somebody does something they don't like. 'My cavies are outside' whinge, 'I don't like C&C' cry --except for VoodooJoint and CavySpirit. And once again someone said all information in Britain of guinea pigs in outdated. COUGH COUGH. No information on animals is outdated. I could write a book and say that guinea pigs eat meat. BANG, Americans think that's true.

Can't we just all get along? Seriously, I am sick and tired of reading such pathetic discussions when we can be friends if it wasn't for all these bloody immature cage-preachers.

-- Can we close this thread?