I am building an outdoor guinea pig hutch.

[Paula]

Originally Posted by silkiepoo

Not to get on the bad side but, don't you think thats a bit racist?

Racist? This statement indicates to me one of two things - a) You're looking to stir up trouble, or b) You don't know the definition of "Racist" or "Racism." If it's the latter, which I doubt, I've included the definition of racism here, from Wikipedia:

Racism is the belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.

Now, I'm sorry, but the comment you quoted was about breeders, not the British as a lot. And sorry to break it to you, but breeders are not a race.

Originally Posted by silkiepoo

Of course hutches have their ups&downs, as do cages. But, cages are even worse than hutches. Have a cage means they have to listen to humans whinging, cleaning, TVs, talking, such&such. If they're outside they can actually listen to natural sounds.

If I was looking for a way to justify doing something horrible to an animal I might also convince myself that doing the right thing is horrible for a number of ridiculous reasons, too.

If in your mind it's an awful thing for a guinea pig in a cage inside, where it's safe and the temperature is controlled is a bad thing because they have to listen to the TV, talking, and cleaning, my goodness, how do you stand it? I can't believe you haven't put up a tent outside to escape the atrocities of household sounds. You're a trooper.

Originally Posted by silkiepoo

As I was saying, what you said was a little offensive. 'Old standards', and calling us all breeders. Generalisation much.

Well, I can certainly see why it might be offensive to a breeder. The truth really isn't all that easy to hear sometimes. And since you missed it, Ly didn't call "you all" breeders. She said "many are breeders." Since you're all about touting "research first" I suggest you do the same before propagating your nonsense here.

Maybe try reading a little more closely and do a little less twisting of what's actually said so you can start a fight. Or try to.

[mariaelise]

Originally Posted by pigsmakemesmile

I'd be more concerned about human predators....just read on some of the threads about what sick (expletive here) have done to pigs.... that were housed outdoors...so bad I had nights I couldn't sleep cause it made me sick and feeling awful about those poor innocent babies.

We live in a suburban community where I don't think there has ever been a break in. We also have a badlocked gate that leads to our backyard and an alarm system. It would be very, very, amazing if there was even a robbery in our town, let alone them having the time to steal guinea pigs of all things from our backyard.

[Peggysu]

Originally Posted by mariaelise

We live in a suburban community where I don't think there has ever been a break in. We also have a badlocked gate that leads to our backyard and an alarm system. It would be very, very, amazing if there was even a robbery in our town, let alone them having the time to steal guinea pigs of all things from our backyard.

This made me laugh. Are you that naive to think that it's that safe where you live? Give me a break.

[Paula]

Originally Posted by mariaelise

We live in a suburban community where I don't think there has ever been a break in.

Makes me laugh too, but mostly it makes me sad. If you really believe this, I think you have a *lot* more life experience to gain before you take on anything that would be dependent on you for its care and needs. If you don't believe it and you're only saying it as a rationalization for dumping these animals you plan to buy in your backyard, don't bother. It's wasting your time and ours.

Originally Posted by mariaelise

It would be very, very, amazing if there was even a robbery in our town, let alone them having the time to steal guinea pigs of all things from our backyard.

You'd be surprised at the things people do, whether you believe they have time to do them or not. Aside from that, please share the name of this idealistic utopia you live in. I should think there would be some news reports or at least statistics of this wonderful suburbia where no crime has ever been committed and no one who lives there has ever had a bad thought or perpetrated even the most minor of transgressions. It's got to be a sociological wonder.

[princesspoppy]

Originally Posted by mariaelise

We live in a suburban community where I don't think there has ever been a break in. We also have a badlocked gate that leads to our backyard and an alarm system. It would be very, very, amazing if there was even a robbery in our town, let alone them having the time to steal guinea pigs of all things from our backyard.

But yet you have a locked gate and an alarm system. Hum...... AND WHY IS THAT ? It's because......just in case anything should happen right. Thats exactly what we are trying to tell you about keeping them out side. Anything can happen,weather it be a change in weather,coyotes,humans,cats and so on.

[momof1kid3piggi]

I think this should be moved to the kitchen.

[rabbitsncavyluv]

You're funny. I have heard terrible stories about Pets At Home - and where do you think pet stores get their animals? gasp ... breeders?!

So there must be breeders if they are selling animals and you have pet guinea pigs. And isn't showing/breeding big in the UK?

Originally Posted by silkiepoo

Not to get on the bad side but, don't you think thats a bit racist?
Others including me are British guinea pig lovers and the majority of us keep/will be keeping them in a hutch.

Of course hutches have their ups&downs, as do cages. But, cages are even worse than hutches. Have a cage means they have to listen to humans whinging, cleaning, TVs, talking, such&such. If they're outside they can actually listen to natural sounds. And it gets your out of the house anyway, visiting them, feeding them and running around with them, not just moving around their stupid C&C cage all the time because you have to dust that little nook in the corner.

As I was saying, what you said was a little offensive. 'Old standards', and calling us all breeders. Generalisation much. There aren't alot of breeders in England, mainly petshops. Pets-at-home stores are of the upmost quality. If you have actually done your research!

[Wodentoad]

A few points of fact you might consider, please, and I apologize for the length of the post, but I felt the best way to address this is point by point.

The temperature does not change a lot, and its an insulated hutch. That means it has good airflow.

This is a contradiction in terms. Either it has good airflow, OR it's insulated. Even if the climate seems suited, there's no such thing as a wild cavy anymore. What if the weather turns and it storms for three days straight. Or what if it's just HOT and sunny and they have no where to get cool? And as others have mentioned, assuming there are no bears in your area, or raccons or opposums or foxes, what about domestic or even feral cats? What about flies? what about mosquitoes?

I love guinea pigs, and I have done a lot of research on them. And no guinea pig owner sits there inside giving their piggies attention for hours on end every day. That's the truth.

That's NOT the truth. I will explain in a moment.

It's not that I am not willing to have the guinea pigs indoors, it's that I don't think 10 sq. feet is enough for them to roam about in.

How many pigs are you talking about? Some rescues have singles that have adapted just fine. We met one this weekend who does better on his own. Cavy Cages reccomends 10.5 square feet for two.

They are animals, they should not have to listen to vaccums, people talking and laughing, or the vibrations of someone running down the stairs. The backyard will be much more peaceful.

My pigs watch NCIS and Cold Case Files (with Bill Curtis). Being domesticated animals means that they become used to certain sounds. Just like being handled, having check ups, having private area's cleaned, touching noses, and having their house cleaned, they expect a certain routine, and it's better for them than being in the unpredictable outdoors. I'm a country girl. I've been out camping with city folk. Ever heard a screech owl? Or a Barn owl? Haunting scary sounds.... Wide eyed in the dark sounds. Sounds that the pigs naturally fear. My voice should be a comfort. One of my piggies even comes when I call him, and the others are learning.

Many people in ENGLAND use outdoor guinea pig hutches. Where it SNOWS.

Forgive me if I'm too forward, but the cavy we all know and love is descended from an animal that lived in South America, in Ecuador, Peru, and Bolivia, in the mountainous regions of the Andes. Not in the snow, but in an area cooler than the jungles. They were domesticated 5000 years ago (according to Wikipedia), and no longer exist in the wild. They are temperature sensitive.

I know everyone on this site is hard-headed and not open to new ideas. But I am building a hutch, and the guinea pigs wont be unhappy in it.

Would you be happy in an open air cabin? Rain, storm, wind, snow fog? You'd be miserable.

I am not worried at all about the temperature. My dad built a shed outside, and it always stays nice and cool, no matter how hot or cold it is outside. He will use the same insulation here. If you don't think guinea pigs can ever live outside, then i think you are wrong. I will be posting a new topic once the hutch is built and the guinea pigs are happily living in it. If it doesn't work out, I guess we will have to find another family for them. I am sure it will, though.

With the rest of the posters, I am begging you PLEASE don't buy piggies, please don't adopt piggies unless they are indoor piggies. I pray nothing happens, but the chances are SO bad against it.

[mariaelise]

Oh yes, whatever Cavy Cages says has to be right. Who are the "vets" who have confirmed that it is impossible for guinea pigs to live outdoors? I know all you people are are people who are obsessed with guinea pigs and would gladly give half of your households to them. But none of you are vets. For all I know, all of this "proved information" could be one vets word and it has just been passed around. I have talked to my vet, and he has been treating piggies successfully for years, and he has seen the sketches and plans for the cage. He thinks it should be fine, because of the insulation, and one side is open for good air flow. The wood wont make it too stuffy or hot, and should keep heat in during the night.

[rabbitsncavyluv]

Not all vets are cavy savy - and why is your vet's word better than ours or our vets?

I could give you the names of several vets that don't advocate housing them outdoors. Rescues are against that for a handful of reasons. Many members here know a lot more than most vets who tend to be dog or cat oriented than exotics oriented.

You were asked to give the name of your vet and you haven't. If he is so great then surely we must have heard of him. Is he on Cavy Haven's vet list?

[Paula]

Originally Posted by mariaelise

Who are the "vets" who have confirmed that it is impossible for guinea pigs to live outdoors?

No one's said it's impossible. It's definitely possible for pigs to live, albeit a shorter and far less healthy life, outside. What we've said is that it's not preferable due to a number of risk factors that the poor things wouldn't face if they were treated with respect and allowed to live indoors.

Originally Posted by mariaelise

I know all you people are are people who are obsessed with guinea pigs and would gladly give half of your households to them. But none of you are vets.

You don't have to be a vet to recognize when a person is doing something shamefully dangerous for animals they claim to adore.

Originally Posted by mariaelise

For all I know, all of this "proved information" could be one vets word and it has just been passed around. I have talked to my vet, and he has been treating piggies successfully for years, and he has seen the sketches and plans for the cage. He thinks it should be fine, because of the insulation, and one side is open for good air flow. The wood wont make it too stuffy or hot, and should keep heat in during the night.

And for all we know, you're fabricating this entire story and the vet himself. If you want to buy guinea pigs and banish them to the outdoors, do so quietly and don't flaunt it here. No one's going to give you a pass to do something that we know to be absurdly inhumane.

[Fudgenrolo]

Originally Posted by silkiepoo

As I was saying, what you said was a little offensive. 'Old standards', and calling us all breeders. Generalisation much. There aren't alot of breeders in England, mainly petshops. Pets-at-home stores are of the upmost quality. If you have actually done your research!

I'm English and I'm not offended by other comments as I understood the context of them but I had to reply to this.

Pets At Home stores are *very* well known in the UK for being responsible for sick animals, for mis-sexing animals, for selling too-small cages and mostly for getting their pets from rodent farms.

Then there's their 'adoption' section in which they very often try and 'adopt out' animals from their own stores that are just too old to look cute anymore! But they all have the same label 'my owner couldn't care for me anymore' or similar.

I know a lot of people who run rescues and they will happily tell you just how many of the animals they end up with in their care come from Pets At Home originally. Not that long ago Pets At Home kept its Guinea Pigs in with the rabbits - it's only fairly recently that this was stopped.

I would never describe those stores as being of the 'utmost quality'!

I can also vouch for the fact (because I have done my research) that are lots and lots of Guinea Pigs in rescue here desperate for a home. The pair I will be adopting are a year old and they are from a rescue I sourced by researching on the Internet.

To mariaelise - you have obviously made up your mind. I, like others, wonder just why you are posting all this on this forum? I read around on the forum a fair bit before joining as I always do with various forums I am a member of and I knew that indoor cages are recommended by one and all on here so had I decided to keep my 'pigs in an outdoor hutch I wouldn't have posted on here because there wouldn't really be any point in doing so.........

If you are so convinced you are right then fine. Go ahead and do it - though I don't agree with it alongside all the other people who have posted. But don't expect anyone on here to 'pat you on the back' and say how wonderful your set-up is because it just won't happen.

[princesspoppy]

Originally Posted by mariaelise

I know all you people are are people who are obsessed with guinea pigs and would gladly give half of your households to them. But none of you are vets.

I am a cavy owner just under 2 weeks from IRELAND. Obsessed no. Care about animals,yes. Care about the animals welbeing,yes. Appalled by you lack of intellangency when it comes to the care of guinea pigs ,yes. And sure you post this thread to cause anger amoung the cavy members.

[Piggie Problems]

I live in southern england!!! and my guinea pigs live outside in the summer they are wild animals and although they come from hot climates they are always toasty warm in the mornings and have each other for body heat! they love being outside eating the grass in fresh air!

[Ibbet]

If you aren't willing or able to keep them inside you really shouldn't get them, much less at a pet store. Ever stop to think there is a reason why the recuse wont allow adopters to keep them outside? There are predators everywhere, whether you want to believe it or not.

My house is also small but I didn't want my Hippie in a small cage so I made adjustments and he is much happier now. I'm sure you could do the same, you're just not willing to by the sound of it.

You should really consider the animals wellbeing and keep them indoors and adopt or consider getting a smaller animal like a hamster (with research of course) and a bin cage or two if space is that tight.

[Ly&Pigs]

Originally Posted by momof1kid3piggi

I think this should be moved to the kitchen.

It's already been moved from where it originated and even though the discussion has been mildly heated, it's where it belongs and where it will stay.

Originally Posted by Piggie Problems

I live in southern england!!! and my guinea pigs live outside in the summer they are wild animals and although they come from hot climates they are always toasty warm in the mornings and have each other for body heat! they love being outside eating the grass in fresh air!

Sorry but your pigs are not wild animals, they are domesticated. Taking them outside for supervised brief playtimes and to let them eat fresh forages is one thing, forcing them to live outside is quite another.

I have no clue what the temperatures get to in any part of England as I have not been there, but sometimes all it takes is a minor fluctuation in temperatures to end up with an ill cavy. Heat strokes are a problem as well.

Originally Posted by mariaelise

Oh yes, whatever Cavy Cages says has to be right. Who are the "vets" who have confirmed that it is impossible for guinea pigs to live outdoors? I know all you people are are people who are obsessed with guinea pigs and would gladly give half of your households to them. But none of you are vets. For all I know, all of this "proved information" could be one vets word and it has just been passed around.

No one ever said we "have" to be right. It's more about what is in the best interest of the pigs. Living indoors for a multitude of reasons is what is in their best interests. Like I said before, you don't seem to care much about their interests/needs as you are about fulfilling your own. Our info comes from thousands of owners and many exotics specialists. If you want to keep this argument up, you could at least provide the name of your vet and where he/she is located.

And finally, to clarify this statement I made on post #11 of this thread:

And they go by the old standards and many are breeders too. Many probably don't even know about keeping pigs indoors so your argument has no merit.

I wasn't speaking ill or bad about England or it's people. The same can be said about America and other countries as well for many breeders and those who think it's fine to keep pigs outside. To be called a racist because of it, well that's ignorance.

[Fudgenrolo]

Originally Posted by Piggie Problems

I live in southern england!!! and my guinea pigs live outside in the summer they are wild animals and although they come from hot climates they are always toasty warm in the mornings and have each other for body heat! they love being outside eating the grass in fresh air!

Did you read the thread in full? There are plenty of links to read up on if you wish to thoroughly look into the reasons why keeping Guinea Pigs outside is not recommended.

Having Guinea Pigs outside in a run for exercise / grazing is fine. No-one has said otherwise. But that is different to keeping them outside to live 24/7.

The UK (South or otherwise!) is very prone to extreme temperature fluctuations. Just recently I read of a sad case of two Guinea Pigs who died of heat stroke whilst their owner was at work - this was here in England.

The past winter we had was awful. I was feeding the poor wild birds all the time to try and help them survive. It was bad enough in our house temperature-wise. There is no way I would have been happy with Guinea Pigs living outside in the freezing temperatures we experienced for weeks in a row never mind all the other reasons not to keep them outside.....

Edited to add based on a previous post - there is nothing constant about the English climate. Temperatures go up and down all the time. We had a *lot* snow and freezing temperatures last winter and summers vary between hot days and colder, rainy weather all the time. Today for example: warm, sunny weather this morning then getting colder with very heavy rain by this afternoon. Tomorrow's forecast is strong winds and lots more rain.

[Paula]

Originally Posted by Piggie Problems

I live in southern england!!! and my guinea pigs live outside in the summer they are wild animals and although they come from hot climates they are always toasty warm in the mornings and have each other for body heat! they love being outside eating the grass in fresh air!

If you believe them to be wild animals, why do you have them as pets?

And I'm sure they seem to love being outside "eating the grass in fresh air" but how will they feel about being mauled and eaten by a cat or other animal that stumbles upon them? Dying of heat stroke? Freezing to death? Falling ill and not having an owner who takes notice soon enough to treat or save them? And how would you know for certain they love it if they've never known a better life?

[princesspoppy]

Fudgenrolo,you took the words right out of my mouth. England and ireland have had the worst 12 months of weather. -10 UP TO 18/25 degrees. .Summer weather is not consistant. We can have 8 degrees on a monday and 20 degrees on a tuesday.
I think the pigs should be let out everyday for an hour or 2 (weather permitting).
But 24/7 not a good idea.

[rabbitsncavyluv]

Originally Posted by Piggie Problems

I live in southern england!!! and my guinea pigs live outside in the summer they are wild animals and although they come from hot climates they are always toasty warm in the mornings and have each other for body heat! they love being outside eating the grass in fresh air!

What the heck?

Foxes, possums and bears are wild animals. Guinea pigs are not. The ones in the wild of Peru are totally different. The ones we have are domesticated.