Help My Guinea Pigs Are Being Attacked!!!!! Help!!!

[Res Judicata]

Originally Posted by sloveladypowell

The story about thugs comming into a backyard and killing pets was enough. Think about it if the "thugs" really wanted to kill you animals even if they were inside wouldnt they just break in?

No, they wouldn't come inside. That type of animal killing is an opportunistic crime. They see an unsupervised, easy to get to animal and take advantage of it. These people are sick offshoot of the common vandal. Most vandals will do damage outside, but it's a rare occasion one will come into your house and trash it. Too risky.

Bring those poor pigs in. Try treating them for mites if your allergic reactions are of the skin type. I thought I was allergic to pig urine, but I found out I get hives when my pigs get mites. It's actually pretty helpful because I know when I need to dose them with ivermectin.

[ArtisticRainey]

At 72 degrees they probably would need something to cool them down. Try your best to get them inside. There are lots of allergy tests that can be done. It'll benefit your life overall. Please get them inside. They should ideally go into a familiy or living room instead of a bedroom if you don't spend most of your time in the bedroom.

I hope you get sorted.

[Jennicat]

It's very frustrating to the forum that you keep insisting on what a great thing it is to be outdoors, and how safe and fun it is on the same threadwhere you're asking for advice on how to keep them from being eaten by predators.

[aqh88]

You say they are with the family more if they are outside then that means you are there supervising them and a cat shouldn't be able to attack them. It's one thing if they are outside with you in a safe pen that has a top and another for them to be running around in an unsecured pen without someone there to protect them. What about at night? Night time is when they are most likely to come under attack by both critters and people. Unless you stay up all night outside they are unsupervised and not protected for at least 6-8hours. Inside is where you are then and therefore inside is where they should be. When they are outside you should be within view of them and they should be in a pen with sturdy sides and a top. Anything else is irresponsible and no matter how many excuses you try to make it won't change the fact that there are more stories of pigs being killed or stolen than the number of safe ones you can come up with. Even if we say 1 in 10 pigs (it's much much higher than that) meet a bad end when left unsupervised outside do you want to take those odds? 1 in 100 is too bad of odds for me. Your taking the word of a few people over the many stories and greater range of experience that are on here and can be found across the internet.

[tantrixfafa]

Please people.. live and let live. I just wanted to say i sympathise with you sloveladypowell (altough you might be scared away from here by now...) I think it's hypocrite to say that an outdoor housing is bad per se. Has anyone of you ever been inside a guinea's brain? Maybe they prefer being in a garden, with grass beneath their feet and sky above, including all the dangers that come with it, over a small cage in a house (which, after all, is made for humans)... who really knows what is best? I don't say i have all the answers, and i think we all do what we think is best... but please don't get so high and mighty like you know everything. The way you talk to her leaves no room whatsoever for any discussion...

[VoodooJoint]

Originally Posted by tantrixfafa

The way you talk to her leaves no room whatsoever for any discussion...

What discussion should there be is the animals are getting attacked? I think you must be lost. You happen to be on a site that strongly adheres to the idea that out pets deserve the very best we can give them, after all they are at our mercy. Outdoor housing is NOT the best. It is proven that living outdoors is detrimental to their health and shortens their lifespans.

If you think we are too rough or mean when it comes to animal welfare then you should post in the brand new Why Can't We All Get Along? forum and tell us all about it.

[aqh88]

I understand your argument. I have made the same one to myself when debating putting my pigs outside or in the horse stalls at all. No you can't live 110% safe in this world and still actually live your life. It's like never allowing your kid to ride a bike cause they might crash or fall off and break their arm. Personally I shredded my forearm to bone and scraped my palm crashing my bike. The difference is like putting your kid on a safe bike with a helmet and pads to ride on nearby or low traffic streets versus sending them out on a bike with hardly any brakes, no helmet, and telling them to ride on the busiest street you can think of. We take precautions to keep ourselves, our kids, and our pets safe and don't let them do things that are highly likely to get them injured or killed. A guinea pig in a safe pen with supervision is like the kid riding the bike with all safety precautions taken. A guinea pig left unattended in a topless or unsecured pen is like the 2nd example of sending the kid with no safety equipment out on to the highway or interstate to ride their bike. It's quite obviously something noone who was a responsible parent would do. The risk for injury is very likely and again very obvious.

[tantrixfafa]

Hear hear! to aqh88.

I understand the main concern of all the people so worried about animal welfare here is about putting a being that has no choice in the matter into a situation that is potentially dangerous.

Now would you call a mother who takes a toddler in the car with her a bad mother? Technically she is doing the same. But no one would fall all over her for doing so.

You might say the risk of getting hurt or killed in a car accident is smaller than the risk of a guinea being eaten by a cat. True. But then you would have to decide what an 'acceptable' risk is. There is where you get into a complex moral issue. is 10% too much, 1%, 0.01%? I don't know.

In an ideal world, if you would have the choice between keeping your piggies outdoors with a constant watch over them by the owner, and keeping them outdoors on their own most of the time... the choice would be simple. Unfortunately this isn't an ideal world, and practically - because no one has time to watch their pets all day long - choices boil down to keeping them locked indoors (on their own) or keeping them outdoors on their own.
It is my strong belief that cavies ARE happier outdoors than locked in a cage. So how much risk is acceptable for living a happier life? I don't know. But it's sad to see that some people are so narrow minded that they think they know it all.

Just for the record: I DO keep my cavies inside and they only go outside in moderately warm (around room temperature, i don't know what that is in Fahrenheit) and dry weather, and then they are always supervised.
Because that's what I BELIEVE is best for them. But i wouldn't dare indoctrinate that view on others the way you do here.

[Justin]

Originally Posted by tantrixfafa

It is my strong belief that cavies ARE happier outdoors than locked in a cage.

Have you ever considered that your "strong belief" could be actually wild guess?

Normally, people research on a subject for a long time, have convincing theories proven time after time, then talk about their "strong belief."

[tantrixfafa]

The thing about a belief is, is that it can't be proven. If one strongly believes in God, would you ask him if he has researched it, and see it proven? No.

All i can say is that i watched my guineas being outdoors for more than a decade and tried my best to interpret their behaviour and body language. That's all anyone can do in the matter of determining whether an animal is happy or not. You simply never know for sure, that's why i specifically used the word 'believe', instead of 'know'. Had i said I 'knew' cavies are happier outdoors, you would have had every right to tell me i would need some proof for it.

You might not believe a cavie is happier outdoors, and I do. No one will ever know for sure.

[Justin]

tantrixfafa: I am sorry for my misunderstanding. I can see that your belief on outdoor piggies is similar to "religious belief" rather than "scientific belief."

I found a good deal of reading materials on piggy behavior including that from this website. For example, pigs will popcorn when you put them in outdoor pen for excitement and/or happiness. When they are left alone for cold and scary night, they are often too frightened, cold, or hot to appraise the "happiness."

I had also found my ego being hurt repeatedly by information against my "belief," especially on outdoor cage and breeding. But as I read more and more, I had to submit my "belief" to superior logic and overwhelming proofs.

I think I am suggesting that(reading lots of information) to you as well.

[tantrixfafa]

i was wrong by saying 'i believe a cavy is happier outside; i should have nuanced it and say: i believe a cavy is happier outside in daytime, in moderately warm, dry weather, provided with enough shadow and shelter, than inside in a cage. I hope we can agree on that. (And agree that watching animal behaviour to come to that conclusion has scientific value, and is 'more' than religious belief)

And what I forgot to say is that I totally agree with you on the matter that at night a cavy might be very uncomfortable outside. And that is why I myself don't take any risks, and NEVER let them sleep outside.

But what i disagree on, is that you seem to think that no matter how well insulated their nighttime housing is, and no matter howmuch precautions you take against predators, you would consider it animal cruelty. I think animal cruelty is far to harsh a word for it. It might not be the ideal situation, but if anything but an ideal situation is considered animal cruelty, we would all have to stop keeping cavies for pets at all, because who here can honoustly say they can provide their cavies with all the space a cavy would IDEALLY need (as much as they would use in nature, approx 600 sq meters, if i remember correctly)

So what bugs me is the black-or-white view here. There is this whole gray area of trying to do your best in the given situation: giving your cavies the best night time house imaginable and doing everything you can to keep predators out, sounds to me like you care more than someone who keeps their pet locked up in a cage all day

[aNiMaLsAmArItAn]

I feel for you sloveladypowell. You are between a rock and a hard place. It's just that the members on this sight have strong beliefs and will probably never change. Everyone has a right to their own opinion and I believe that since everyone lives in a different place and has a different situation, everyone is at least partly right! If it was me in your situation though, I would probably do what you are doing, except I would bring them indoors at night. GREAT PERSEVERANCE!

[buttons]

Sloveladypowe, what if you simply built a mini barn/garden shed with a window for the guinea pigs. A/C or a fan for the hot days, and heating in there for the winter.

I know a friend who had a rabbit outside in a hutch and a coyote came a chewed apart the wires no problem. That coyote got rabbit for diner that night. )-:

I'm against putting them totally outside, but if you had them in a garden shed that you used only for guinea pigs - not lawn mower or so - fumes... then it should be OK.
Have a run outside for the day when you are outside with them to supervise and it'll be ok that way.

Dangers come at night and any other time you aren't there.

I understand that you can't keep them inside, but I think there are still other solutions...

[aqh88]

Just saying the guinea pigs are happier is not really a good reason for putting them in danger. I told my mom that was the main argument people were using and you know what her answer was... "My children were happier playing ball in the street but I still made them play in the yard". The chances of them getting attacked and injured or killed by something is insanely higher than a car crash. That's why I used the bike example. If a young kid rides a bike down a really busy street every day the odds are they will get hit or something will happen within a couple weeks. Same with the pigs. Chances are they will get attacked by something (already happened) within the month. That is what makes it a stupid irresponsible risk. It's quite obviously wrong. While yes there are grey areas. There are times we can argue about it and say maybe the risk is too high and maybe it's not. I've been on the receiving end of that myself when I tried to ask about setting up a guinea pig safe horse stall and notice my outdoor guinea pig pen doesn't have that many responses. This is not one of those cases where we can argue. It is not grey. It is obviously dangerous. It has already proven to be dangerous. If we put a child in a similar situation people would be reporting the mother for child endangerment.

You cannot always do whatever your child or pet wants. You have to compromise. "Ok you can play ball in the front yard but if you go in the street you will have to stay in the smaller back yard from now on" or to my dog " you can go off leash in the pastures so long as you stay on this side of the fence. If you don't you will have to be on a leash." To a guinea pig "ok you can go outside while I'm around in this safe pen but when I'm not outside too you'll have to stay inside." The animals may not be able to understand as well as the child but that is the compromise we are making with them to keep them both happy and safe.

That is part of the reason we build such large cages. So they can be happy inside when we have to keep them there. I also picked an 8lb salad for my aunt to feed them while I was gone this weekend so they would not miss out on their grass and forages by being stuck inside. A pet does not know the risks of it's actions so we cannot always do what makes them happy. If they knew the risks they probably wouldn't choose to do it but would want that extra security and protection that we think is necessary. Since we can't ask them we will have to make the choice ourselves.

[mbator]

Bring them in, you are taking a big chance keeping them outside. Find a place where you don't have them in your bedroom for your allergies. Even the garage if you have one would be better than outdoors to cats and whatever else may come by. I know everyone on here means well in helping you, it just may not be what you want to hear.

[steveakam]

here in england we have a nice substance called ZOOPOO. this is a compost that includes the big cat droppings from the countrys zoo's. The big cat droppings contain feromones that make smaller cats think about their own mortality and leave the imiediate area in a hurry. I dont know if you have such a thing in the states but it may be worth looking in to.

[soccergrl849]

I feel the need to apologize i am sure all these comments can be intimidating and I hope you realize that they all say this in hopes to help the guinea pigs first.
Maybe you have already made a choice on this issue but here is my two cents,
First off, have you tried fleece and does this help with the allergies? At this point with your health being at risk i would say that the guinea pigs should remain outside but maybe you could lay down towels in a bathroom or other quiet place for them to be during the night or If you won't be outdoors to check on them. If you can create a safe cage with chicken wire then that is also a great solution, the two things you must keep in mind are your health and the pigs safety. Only you really know these circumstances and i trust that if you have an account on here and you truly have the interest in these pigs then you know what you need to do.
Once again i apologize for the harsh words of myself and others and i hope you find a suitable solution.
Best wishes, Soccergrl

[Treauremapper]

My idea would be to install a dog kennel around the hutch. One of those chain link wire kennels with a door, so that the kennel sits in the center. The entire structure would need to have a roof or be in a porch with a roof. If it is strong enough to prevent dogs from getting out, it should be strong enough to prevent a cat from getting in.

But, sadly, sometimes it is better to rehome a guinea pig.

[Simmonkey]

My father is allergic to rabbit urine. He almost died once a while back, when I had a rabbit. But I would put a sterdy top on the cage. ANd then put a cage withen a cage