An outside cage which is cat proof

[honeysmum]

Firstly, I understand everyone has differing opinions regarding keeping pigs inside or outside. But, in support of SW, we are also in Australia and our two gorgeous girls, who we adopted three years ago, have resided in a c and c cage (3 x 6 grid) which is situated on our front verandah. This faces north, gets filtered morning sun most of the year but not during summer and is protected from wind and rain. Our girls have never been ill or to the vet and in the cooler winter months we attach shade cloth to all four sides of the cage to keep it more insulated. The top of the cage has a hinged grid roof for easy access to clean and feed etc. When this is closed we place three ocky straps on top which locks it down. If there is a cat alive who could force itself under or undo the ocky straps it has yet visited our place. The climate here is very similar to yours in Perth SW, so I am sure your pigs will enjoy themselves in a larger run as long as it is well protected from hot sun, rain and wind and of course predators.

[Sabriel]

I must say Percy's Mom that humidity or lack of makes a big difference in how hot things feel outside. When I lived by Detroit 25C could feel very hot and muggy. Now up in Toronto I can walk outside when it's 33C and feel a bit warm, but not to the point where I'm sweating buckets.

Down in Windsor there used to be 2 temps listed: What it really is and what it feels like!

Not that I am saying anything on outdoor cages either way, just a note on the horrible humidity in some parts of North America.

[ErdTirdMans]

Let's sum up this thread if we can so the arguing stops...

Guinea pigs in the wild are outdoor creatures. However, the guinea pigs we know and love are a little different from breeding and domestication. Furthermore, even in the wild a single traditional guinea pig wouldn't last long. That's why, as we all know, they can reproduce amazingly fast. Outdoor conditions are, without a doubt, less favorable to raising guinea pigs than indoor conditions that can be kept more stable and pest and predator-free. This is not to say that guinea pigs COULDN'T be kept outside but instead says that it's easier and better for them that they're not.

However, with some intelligence and careful thought, one could create a reliable environment for guinea pigs outdoors. Honeysmum shows us this. Also, it looks like for SW that keeping them indoors is quite a problem as well. So, instead of simply saying it can't be done, why not address the issues and come up with some ideas as to how to solve them.

NOTE that while this is not entirely relevant to this cubes and coroplast site, this site also exists to aid in the well-being of guinea pigs and even has a section on vegetarianism that extends this point of view to helping animals in general. I think that, in the cage safety section, this is appropriate.

My first point is that this cage will never be as safe or as good as an indoor cage. The reasons why have already been posted.

First, we have the issue of bugs and pests - perhaps bug netting could be an option. you would have to get a really fine net, i'd think, and i'm not sure of their ability to prevent fleas, ticks, and very small bugs from getting in, but I think these bugs are somewhat common indoors too.

Then, we have to think about larger predators - especially cats that can easily get through the netting. I don't know what "coky straps are" but they seem to work. Also, bear in mind that a single fencing set up would still allow cats to shove their paws through. To stop cats, I would think about a double fence, or a fence with gaps that are less than half an inch apart. Either of these implements would have to be VERY strong.

Next, we have to think about temperature and weather. Thus, the cage would need some sort of removeable insulating layers for colder weather that can be removed in warmer weather. In warm weather, you'd need indirect fans, ice packs, tiles, bricks, or some cool surface for the pigs to lay on, and an ample water supply. Also, the sunlight cannot be direct, so the walls facing the sun would need to be covered somehow. Considering temperature, it's easy to say "it's 25 degrees Celsiu out here so it's just a little over fine for them" and throw an ice pack in the cage just in case, but with all of the various items you are placing in your cage as well as the materials you're using in an around it, i'd think a thermometer would be in order. Lots of things can hold heat moreso than you might expect.

Finally, we have to think about thinks that can crawl into the cage from under the ground. Most things like that are benign anyway (e.g. worms) but some can pester your guinea pigs and eat their foods (e.g. ants). There's really no surefire way to prevent this - net holes are too large and poisons are too lethal. Raising it off the ground helps, but doesn't stop it.

Let's assume you've gone through and done everything you can to make it the best cage you can. You've got a raised cage with bedding that doesn't attract animals. It's made of carefully chosen materials to ensure best temperature conditions and stability with a fence around it with very small grods. Around this fence is a bug net, probably with another fence. Two walls are covered to prevent direct sunlight and removeable insulation sits nearby.

I'll tell you what you have: An expensive cage.

Let's face it, not only is this cage less effective than an indoor c&c, but it's also more expensive. Finally, it's raised off the ground, which defeats the logic behind using an outdoor cage. Your pigs aren't playing in grass anymore and the cage is going to be as big as the materials you have allow. It's essentially an indoor cage with all kinds of extra stuff.

My point is you can probably make an outdoor cage work almost as well as an indoor cage, but it's going to cost you a lot extra. If your landlord is really that big of a jerk, then i don't know what to tell you.

Why not just make a cage that looks good outdoors but costs you almost nothing and make thye REAL cage indoors. If he's fine with you having a temporary cage indoors, why not just clean it and move the guinea pigs outdoors temporarily while he's over? That's what I would do - build a nice-sized C&C indoors and a similar or bigger C&C outdoors and just tell him I use the outdoor one. Put some bedding and such in it to make it believable. Should only run you $30 maximum for the fake cage, as you can make it out of the extra stuff you'll have making your indoor cage.

Of course, that assumes your landlord doesn't live in your building.

[spoonyspork]

Hrm. Just saw this post, so sorry if I dig up an old issue... but... I usually *keep* it 78-80 in here. I'm in Florida, so the outdoor temp is usually way higher than that, so it's comfortable inside in comparrison.

My SO has had guinea pigs for over a decade. From what I can see, they've done everything 'right' except the cage sizes... they had three girls and three boys at any given time, and had 2 cages about the size of a 2x2 with a second floor. Now they only have one of the group left - the original mother of all but the father (they got a pair from a petshop, and sure enough they eneded up with a girl and boy - and no, they didn't breed them again after discovering this). She's around 12 and still healthy as can be, though she can't make it to the second floor any more. The rest of them have all died just within the last two-three years - so between age 8-10.

Now I'll point out that my SO's parents' house also never had A/C. It's usually only a few degrees cooler inside than out, and sometimes it's actually way more comfortable outside than in. I'm talking days where it's 90F *inside*

Just some food for thought. I'm sort of neutral on the whole 'day cage outside' thing, though I'd think someone trying it in Florida is cruel...

[Smudger]

I have an outdoor run for my guineas, and as long as the weather is nice (I'm in England) and I'm actually at home, I'll leave them out there all day as they seem to love running around in the fresh air, eating all the grass.

I wouldn't leave them out there on their own, (for example, when I go to work) but I'm not out in the garden all the time that they are-I pop out regularly to make sure they're ok though.

The run intself is 8'x3' and the lid is split into 4 2'x3' sections-one of which is solid wood, and the other 3 are mesh. The solid portion means they always have a shaded area, which I can extend by use of a panel that covers the mesh lid next to it. If we have a particularly warm day and I feel they'd benefit from a little extra protection from the heat, I have a 2 litre coke bottle filled with water that I keep in the freezer-I put this in their run so they can cool themselves off against it.

I wouldn't advocate housing your pigs outside on a permanent basis, but it's definately possible to provide them with a safe outdoor enviroment to play in, without them requiring constant monitoring-it just depends on how much time, money and effort you can put in, and your level of skill at constructing such things. I'm actually toying with an idea for a new outdoor run myself.

[Smudger]

Just wanted to add something I forgot to address (and it seems to be too late to edit my original post).

Although I believe that it's entirely possible to build an outdoor run that is animal proof (unless you have a problem with bears/tigers/giant mutated crocodiles etc), I would never leave my pets outside when I wasn't home, simply because human beings are cruel, and they can use tools.

[young_mommy17]

I didn't read ALL the replies, just the ones on the first page, so if your question has been answered, sorry for the repeat, .

To answer your only question of whether a C&C Cage is safe outside with cats and such, no it isn't, it would be better to look for a stronger cage, way stronger.

But I'm not agreeing with your putting the Piggies outside ALL day unsupervised. There are countless things that could happen while you are away, and I’m sure that you love your guinea's very much, because your here asking questions to ensure their safety, which is great, and they are happier outside which is also a plus. But is it totally, and absolutly SAFE for them? I don't live in Australia, so I can't say anything about other possible dangers since I don't know, , but have you considered absolutly everything? People jumping into your yard, or cats somehow getting into the cage (cats are determined little buttheads, I've had cats and they are very creative when involving something they can't have). I'm not trying to tell you what to do or be rude or say your a bad mommy, cause obviously your not, , but it really is better to try and house your pets inside. Even if their cage is smaller, if you take them out for floor time for a few hours, the smaller cage won't be too bad until you get a larger house or somehow are able to get a larger cage.

About the bug spraying of the legs, the fumes are what will hurt the piggies. Just like humans, we may not be able to smell something, but it’s their and it hurts us. Spraying the legs really wound be a good idea. I don’t know the name of it, but there is a powder in which you could sprinkle around the cage so that crawling bugs would be killed and stay away from. But make sure to check if even that is safe for the piggies, because I am not sure.
Well, hope you can find what your looking for, and that's awesome that your in the process of becoming a Vet! Congrats on that.
P.S. You said your piggies are under your porch right? So they don’t get direct sunlight? Because they are not supposed to be housed in direct sunlight, just making sure

[FoolOnTheHill]

Originally Posted by young_mommy17

I don’t know the name of it, but there is a powder in which you could sprinkle around the cage so that crawling bugs would be killed and stay away from. But make sure to check if even that is safe for the piggies, because I am not sure.

I think a powder inside the cage would be a bad idea, since the piggies are very close to the ground as they walk and would probably breath in the little particles.
SW - Have you asked your landlord about the guinea pigs being inside? I know lots of people have found that they're not allowed dogs or cats, but caged animals such as guinea pigs are fine and don't count in the "No Pets" rule.

[Fluffball]

Im not allowed cavies inside my apartment but I do anyway. I simply remove or hide them during rent inspection, hide the cage then take them out again after its over. The landlord doesnt even know. Now as much as that may be ''against the rules'', i'm doing whats best for my pets. What the landlord doesnt know, and doesnt see isn't there.

I know many owners that do this, and it works. It may be a risk but personally I think its worth it.