outdoor vrs indoor

[Piggy Friend]

But I have one of those running arks and they just Love eating their own grass when they want to! Grass is a guinea pig's best friend!!

[muffin]

Ooooooh! Please anyone who has cavies outdoors, bring them in! If you are a kid, get to work on nagging and educating your parents straight away!!!! Show them this website, cool clean cage designs, bits of the forum that says the cages don't smell if you keep them clean, and even offer to do extra chores to help pay for an indoor cage. Do whatever you can. I don't know if people in the Northern half of America keep their cavies outdoors without sheds and heaters, but i hope to god not. I thought where I live is cold (Scotland, north UK, temperate climate), but the temperature here never really drops below -10 degrees celsius. however, i went to new york just before Christmas, and I have never known cold like it! the wind made my hands so cold when my gloves were off that my fingers throbbed with pain! I can't bear the thought of the rabbits and guinea pigs in my neighbourhood, never mind the country, who are huddling together for warmth right now. I can't even think about the lonely ones with no buddy to keep them warm AAAArgh i'm going to cry, the thought of it actually breaks my heart, i am actually fighting the impulse to adopt every guinea pig at the local shelter right now. the only thing stopping me is lack of space. But I want to adopt them all even more when i think that someone might adopt them and keep them outside. All the petstore pigs and shelter pigs who've been kept indoors and then suddenly put outside,, oh it's too horrible.

It's too cold, and they're so small. if you wouldn't be outside on a cold night, why should your pig be? And what's motivating you to go out and check if they have everything they need, and play with them when it's pouring down freezing rain? Your dog and cat might be curled up, or flaked out, respectively, by the nearest heat source, while your pig or rabbit is shivering uncontrollably in it's hutch, desperately trying to gather around it what meagre straw and hay it has in a desperate bid to generate a warm spot to spend the cold night ahead, all alone, because it's too cold to sleep. When was the last time anyone here wastoo cold to sleep? At least we can go get a blanket or another hot water bottle.

From the point of view of a pig:

5pm. It's been one and a half hours since my human came and checked I had food and water. It's pouring down rain and so cold and windy, she didn't stay long because it's so cold. her hands were turning kind of blue. She won't come out again now. Only stays out to pet me after school during warmer weather, and if it's dry on weekends, unless she's doing other stuff with friends. I'm so lonely. So cold. The wind keeps blowing into my cage and even with the cover thing over it it's freezing in here. But I'm used to it now. I prefered the pet shop compared to this, at least it was always warm in there, and there was stuff to watch going on. It's getting dark now.

6pm. It's totally dark now. The fox is in the garden, I can hear him, and smell him. he always comes past to see if he can get into my cage. he bites at the wire front and scratches at the wood, -one time I thought he really would get in, but something scared him off. I'm always so scared my human won't have locked my cage properly and he'll get me. So cold, I'm hiding in the corner, so the fox won't see me, but he can smell that I'm here. A horrible draft keeps blowing into the gap between me and the wall.

8pm. The fox didn't stay long tonight. There's frost everywhere, my water bottle is frozen. My nose aches because it's cold, hurts to breathe. trying to nap, so can forget how cold I am. It was like this last night, I got almost no sleep.

11pm. The lights in the house are off, it's so dark. I can't sleep. I thought I heard the fox ome over the fence, but I think I might have imagined it.

3am. Still awake. So stiff from the cold. Can't feel my ears. I ate my hay, and my human ran out of straw to put in my hutch, so i have only a little bit of bedding. Can't stop shaking.

5am. Falling asleep, but feel more like I can't wake up, like when you have to get up but can't get your eyes to open. Don't really care anymore whether I get to sleep. Hope the sun is out today, and it'll shine on my hutch, and I'll be so warm and happy until lunchtime when it goes behind the house..and it gets cold again.

If you keep your pigs or rabbit outdoors in just a hutch, please put yourself in their position. imagine you're in their cage right now. Yes they have furry coats, but they're domesticated, and not thick enough to cope with night temperatures. And guineas and rabbits in the wild live in warm burrows, with lots of friends to snuggle up to. if your parents say that your pet doesn't need to be indoors bacause it smells, it's fine out there, it has a big fur coat etc. do all you can to convince them ..please.

[AliceTittle]

Oh Muffin you make me feel so guilty! But I have suceeded, and in about 2 months the guineas are coming indoors ( to much building work at the minute, so my guilt continues )

[Piggy Friend]

my mum insists that they don't come inside aparently they are too 'smelly' i don't understand my piggies never smell.

[Fluffball]

I would tell her this:

Guinea pigs cannot smell as they do not have a musk gland. Musk glands are what causes odour in rodents and other animals. No musk gland means no smell. They also do not have a sweat gland.

It is biologically impossible for a guinea pig to have body odour. If the bedding is cleaned regularly they do not smell at all.

[muffin]

Originally Posted by Piggy Friend

my mum insists that they don't come inside aparently they are too 'smelly' i don't understand my piggies never smell.

That's the traditional reaction of many parents becasue as far as they're concerned, pets stay outside because that's what everyone else does. Show her my post as a least resort, but keep nagging away gently, look out the window sadly at your pig's cage, worry about them out loud, just keep at it. Eventually she might get so fed up of you going on about them she lets you have them indoors on a trial basis. but be careful, you don't want to annoy her too much or she'll put her foot down and say "no, that's the end of the discussion." Just try and make her feel bad, don't make her angry.

If you're not too sure about trying this approach, another good one would be to ask her if you can keep them indoors if you can prove they don't smell. She will think that they will and that it will be an easy victory for her. But if you change their bedding and the linig of their cage everyday, then they can't smell, there's no time for it to start to smell. she might say that she's not going to buy extra bedding for this, in which case use old newspapers to line the bottom of the cage. If you run out, neighbours or recycling bins are a good source. Also, make sure you have a decent size cage. i don't know if you have a C&C or not. If you don't then the worst kind of pet store cages for smell are wooden ones, because they absorb the urine and its smell. Second worst are the plastic ones with a solid plastic suround on top and a grid of metal at the top. These don't allow any ventilation, and cause smell build up, as well as being very bad for your piggies. Don't be tempted to use any sort of scented cage cleaning spray or bedding either.

Explain to your mum that they are your pets and you love them, that you can't spend as much time with them when they're outdoors, and that having to keep the cage clean indoors is a good way for you to learn to be responsible. You might have to make a bargain, like agreeing to do an extra chore or something, but if you're sly, choose something easy like hoovering the room where your pigs are, that way you'll catch any bedding that gets flicked out of the cage before she has time to moan about it! Changing the garbage bag is quick and easy, and might appeal more to your mum as a chore for you to do instead. If they're in a hutch outdoors and are going to need a new cage for indoors, ask if you can build a C&C cage. all you'll need her to do is take you to get the stuff, and maybe pay for it, but it's so much cheaper than a new pet store cage. And if she says there's no point bacause they'll probably end up outside again, say that the C&C cage would make a good outdoor run, so it won't be wasted. point out to her that at least you have a hobby that is caring for a small animal/animals, intead of most kids who just sit and stare at the tv all afternoon after school.

What I have found to be most effective with stubborn parents is to make them feel really bad. When they say that guinea pigs have furry coats and are meant to live outdoors, point out that so did humans long long ago, but that we wouldn't last long out there now without heating. Pigs are bred indoors in the warm and only live outdoors when their owners put them there. Explain that over hundreds of years they have lost the warm fur that kept them warm, and now only have thin hair, and that in the wild they have a whole herd of other pigs to snuggle up to. This makes them realise that you are right, but they may brush the thought away. Don't give up though-after explaining this to them you have made a small crack in their armour. Look as sad as you can for as long as it takes to break them...it will. My little brother wanted a gerbil really bad when he was younger, and my parents kept saying no. So he gave up and took up keeping a pebble as a pet, (and named it hardshell by the way). Anyway, this made them feel so bad that they got him the gerbils. He didn't do the rock thing deliberately to manipulate them, just thought that was the closest thing he would get to a pet so used his imagination. What I'm saying is that we can learn from his success! If you look sad and act sad they may eventually crack. making them feel bad is almost a surefire way of getting what you want. It makes them think they're being unreasonable, unfair, mean bad parents etc. Hold out, be convincing, and you may get your wish. If you have a birthday coming up ask if having your pigs indoors can be your gift. They will be touched that you care enough about your pigs' welfare to sacrifice your present.

Warning: do not make them feel bad just whenever you want something. They will soon get wise to it and it won't work any more. Only use this trick when you have to, like now. If you get to have your pigs indoors, don't ask for much else for a while.

Once they're in thoug, keep the cleaning up, becasue if they start to smell, your mum might change her mind. Good luck. It probably won't eb an immediate yes, but keep trying and let us know how you get on.

[muffin]

By the way when i said show her my post I meant my last one, not the one before this where I tell you how to convince her!!! I don't think she'd be amused!! If you have to, show her the point of view of a guinea pig bit, where I describe how cold it is through the guinea pig's point of view. Good luck!

And to anyone who absolutely has to keep their pet outdoors, and it's not in a heated outbuilding or shed, please always make sure that when its cold out taht in the bedding area there is a thick layer of newspaper, which is warm, and lots of hay and paper shreddings are good too. they will make a nest and flatten or kick out what they don't want so don't worry about them being too warm. i would recommend straw, except that i don't use it because I've read in lots of places that its sharp ends can cause eye injuries.

[Piggy Friend]

My parents absoulutely INSIST that the rule is 'Animal's go outside' i have nagged me heart out,yesterday it went on for an hour and a half! I think the way to get round them is to get them to understand that they do not smell, they will not drop their hair everywhere, or flick out bedding...ect! My birthday is in marcch so i'll ask for them inside then, and als keeping on gently nagging, i think last night took it to the extreme! I suggested the idea of trialing it for a week of which i had the reply, "Not even fo r a second!" That way they'll never learn that guinea pig's do not smell.

[muffin]

As I suspected, your parents are hard nuts to crack. But despair not-the key to this is persistence. My Dad used to take the same view of small furries, he hates, actually is terrified of, any small furry animals except perhaps rabbits. In the same way that a lot of people are scared of spiders. Anyway, I got a hamster when I was about 8, and it couln't go outside, so from then on he couldn't say no to the guinea pigs. Him and my Mum are a bit old-fashioned when it comes to animals too, but they're changing, slowly. from my personal experience, your parents probably think that the idea has just occured to you and that you will forget about it. To let them know that you're serious will take a little while. Try the acting sad thing, cos you are. Don't be rude to them, or they'll assume you're trying to get your way by having a tantrum, and will definitely say no, no parent likes being told they're wrong, even when they are . The key is not to worry. Your pigs have survived so far, they'll be ok a little while longer, just make sure they have all the stuff I mentioned above for bedding. spend as much time as you can with them your parents probably don't see them as pets so much as animals. would I be right in thinking you had a bit of a struggle to convince your parents to let you get the pigs in the first place?

Be patient. Look sad. When they ask you what's wrong, tell them you are worried that your guinea pigs are lonely, or cold. Tell them that you've read about lots of people whose guinea pigs don't smell. Make sure their cage is big enough, and always very clean.

Can I just how old you are and if you live in a warm or cold country. My advice isn't much use if it's warm where you are! Your age will help me decide how to best approach your parents to convince them, because believe me, I have lived through every stage, and my parents said no to most stuff I wanted to do! Also do you have any other animals in your house at all or outside, as that may help your case? Don't lose hope, we will win. a parent has never outsmarted a kid yet, and we have right and good on our side!

[Piggy Friend]

I live in New Zealand, it's past Australia and sot of famous for rugby i think. we have a cat too. New Zealand is warm but in winter in stead o fsnow we get loads and loads of rain and hail, thunder and lightning everything sormy except snow.

[muffin]

Sounds like where I live! Hmmm. I read another of your posts which said you couldn't have a C&C cage or indoors. Your parents sound pretty stubborn, especially your Dad. My Dad's a bit like yours, mine doesn't like cats, but its funny, cos they always go straight for him rather than anyone else! I think the only thing that may work is to make them feel bad. You handle the pigs and you don't smell. Clean the cage as often as possible and get your mum to sniff it to prove it doesn't smell. Otherwise, keep looking sad. maybe they'll come round. if not and in the meantime, make sure your pigs have lots of warm bedding. You're going to need another cage for the boy babies. make absolutely sure you keep track of who's born when and seperate boys into another cage at 3 weeks old. What did your parents say about all the babies coming? i'm surprised that they're ok about it! Read up about what might go wrong with the birth on this site, and about lethal pigs and roans. you need to be prepared for a trip to the vet if anything goes wrong.

[Percy's Mom]

You might also want to point out to your parents that the rain, hail and wind will most likely kill your guinea pigs. It's harsh but it's true. You have domesticated animals that do not have the ability to protect themselves from the elements, and are trapped in a cage where if the rain is hard enough, they could drown. Add to that any animals that might be outdoors, and their chances are even lower. Even wild cavies rarely live more than a year because of predators and weather conditions.

[Piggy Friend]

Their new arguement is because Ruby's been dropping lots of hair around and they don't want har in the house, to which i pointed out most of the hair would land in their cage.

[Piggy Friend]

i find it hard to be sad because Ruby just had six babies! Is this normal? They always say two-four is the average amount? Only they're all co cute, of coarse it would be better if they were inside....

[muffin]

Originally Posted by Piggy Friend

i find it hard to be sad because Ruby just had six babies! Is this normal? They always say two-four is the average amount? Only they're all co cute, of coarse it would be better if they were inside....

The litter size sounds normal. Is ruby seperate from the other pigs? if not maybe you should seperate her to make sure that when her boy babies are mature enough that they can start getting their mum and sisters pregnant, you know which ones they are. But don't do it unless someone who knows more than me recommends it. i'm just worried that soon you'll have a lot of babies running around, and it might not be easy to tell whose are whose, and you won't know which ones to seperate. make a note on a calendar to seperate the boy ones in 3 weeks from when they were born.