Sad: CBS story on the unwanted parrot

[Alusdra]

The Parrots And People Paradox - CBS News

Link has a video, text from the article copied below:

(CBS) Mira Tweti and Zazu, her pet parrot, are inseparable.

Not because Tweti (pronounced Tweety, and yes, that's her real name) wants it that way, but because Zazu demands it, CBS News correspondent Bill Whitaker reports.

Tweti explains, "With a parrot there's only one place for everything in your home ... and that's on the floor. He's a huge amount of work."

Parrots are beautiful. They can talk, and do tricks.

The average parrot has the intelligence of a 3- to 5-year-old child," Tweti says.

With an estimated 40 million parrots in U.S. households, they're not far behind cats and dogs in popularity.

But owners soon learn Polly wants a cracker: hand-prepared food, plus all your time, attention and patience.

Mira Tweti should know. She wrote a book on the difficult relations between parrots and people.

"They can live to [age] 80," she explains. "They're loud, they poop incessantly, they love to chew. What you've got is a 3-year-old running around with a can opener on its face."

And like a toddler, if they don't get the care and attention they need, they bite and scream.

Or even worse, isolated in a cage these flock animals go stir crazy, mutilating themselves and plucking out feathers. It's all too much for many people.

Says Tweti: "These are long-lived animals that are designed to live in flocks. The average person would like to have some alone time, the average parrot doesn't want it."

Declining in natural habitats, flocks of parrots are multiplying in some places, with 30,000 flying around cities from California to Brooklyn -- set loose by frustrated owners. Growing even faster are parrot rescue centers, now found in every state.

At the Garuda Aviary, part of a Buddhist monastery in Maryland, they're full to overflowing.

"So many people realize they've taken on too much. So we get a lot of requests, but sadly, we are not able to fulfill them," says Jetsunma Ahkon Lhamo, the center's spiritual director.

It's such a big problem that the Humane Society now recommends unwanted birds be euthanized. Tweti promised to take care of Zazu when friends couldn't bear it any longer.

Every day at some point I think to myself, 'I can't take it another minute'," Tweti says.

And every few minutes, someone else is buying another parrot.

[lmarieaa]

It is so sad. There are pet stores everywhere where I live that sell parrots like goldfish. They all confine these majestic birds to small barren cages, and I just feel so bad for them knowing that they need environmental stimulation to be content. It breaks my heart.
I love parrots, especially African Grays, but I problably will never have one due to the fact that they really demand a lot of attention and I have too many animals to look after and I wouldn't have the proper amount of time to devote to the bird. I wish people would consider the amount of devotion required for these animals before handing the cashier their credit card...unfortunately, many won't, and birds in shelters will die for it.
I feel that more public awareness need to be raised on this issue.

[crazywiggy]

That is horrible, though sadly not surprising. I can never understand why people would think getting a parrot would be a good idea - especially when they buy a young one from a pet store knowing it could easily outlive them.
Maybe I'm biased, I'm funny about birds as pets generally. I mean, even a budgie... At least now animal welfare is generally improving, with people starting to realise that animals need the space to stretch their limbs, walk and run and express natural behaviours. Yet the majority of pet birds still live in cages. The best they can do is hop feebly from one perch to another or peck at a little bell. I don't believe any bird should be housed in a cage that is not large enough for it to actually fly.

As for parrots - unless you adopt a bonded pair, house them in a huge aviary, and give them huge amounts of time, enrichment etc then you shouldn't bother.

Personally, I would like to see these sorts of species banned as pets - most simply don't have the means to care for them.

[4piggers]

Originally Posted by crazywiggy

That is horrible, though sadly not surprising. I can never understand why people would think getting a parrot would be a good idea - especially when they buy a young one from a pet store knowing it could easily outlive them.
Maybe I'm biased, I'm funny about birds as pets generally. I mean, even a budgie... At least now animal welfare is generally improving, with people starting to realise that animals need the space to stretch their limbs, walk and run and express natural behaviours. Yet the majority of pet birds still live in cages. The best they can do is hop feebly from one perch to another or peck at a little bell. I don't believe any bird should be housed in a cage that is not large enough for it to actually fly.

As for parrots - unless you adopt a bonded pair, house them in a huge aviary, and give them huge amounts of time, enrichment etc then you shouldn't bother.

Personally, I would like to see these sorts of species banned as pets - most simply don't have the means to care for them.

A BONDED pair? Seriously? And this will do what for them? Make it so the owner can barely feed them? Two bonded parrots, are what breeders have, and breeders 95% of the time, can not even touch the animal. Why? Because of the bond it has with its parrot partner.

If you need 2 parrots to keep each other company,and entertained, THATS when I say, you shouldnt bother.

[lmarieaa]

I assume she meant a same sex bonded pair of birds. I have a friend 3 female African Grays and another with 2 male Cockatoos (all cageless), and they are all fine. They are not aggressive to their owners in any way and its actually quite interesting and fun to watch their interactions with each other.

Parrots naturally live in social groups.

[shamrockmommy]

My mom has 6 large parrots, and I know she loves them and feeds them an excellent diet, but honestly, I hate to say it but I think parrots are a completely inappropriate creature as a "pet." They should be able to fly around far and wide. They should be able to scream because, you know, that's what birds do to keep tabs on their mate and flock. They should be able to forage for their food or splash in a puddle whenever they want to. They don't belong in people's homes.

I know this is a very thin line I walk on. I have 3 small dogs who are given a good diet, toys, exercise and lots of love and attention. I have 4 piggers who are in a very large cage with unlimited hay, hideys and random toys, pellets and fresh veggies and fresh grass when in season. They are all quite happy as near as I can tell and don't exhibit any signs of stress, whereas my mom's birds, 2 are pluckers (the cockatoo a multilator, poor thing) several are unhandlable and the rest are screamers. She gives them run of the house most times but they are caged when she is not home or on vacation. Of course, being in a suburb, they don't have an outdoor aviary to let them fly and get sunshine. They are just terrible pets, imho, no matter how much someone loves them.

[Alusdra]

Bonded pairs don't necessarily breed, even is they are opposite sex. They require environmental stimulus (that is, a breeding box). And even if they do breed, which is a natural behavior, you can pull the eggs and boil them the first day to sterilize before anything grows in them. I agree that parrots should be kept in same-species pairs or groups. It is simply impossible for a human to give a parrot the 24/7 attention that they want like another parrot can.

[4piggers]

This has become almost comical....

And what do you do when they hit sexual maturity? When they hit the *teens* and have attitude with the other parrots? Or when the other parrot does not reciprocate the sexual advances? I see the damage DAILY. I have had birds come in and out of my home because of this mentality.

Now...you guys want the respect of not passing on information on guinea pigs you are 100% sure of. And seeing that this is a GUINEA PIG board not a parrot board...you should probably stop giving out this type of information. After all someone might be browsing and find this tidbit of info and believe it true...isnt that what is said about anyone speaking against the views of this board on guinea pigs?

[lmarieaa]

Theres no need for the attitude...and if someone decided on getting a parrot solely because of THIS thread, well then, that person was going to be influenced somewhere else if a person is that easily influenced. A petsmart commercial would have done it.
So, because this is guinea pig forum, that means all animals have to be excluded from discussion? And also because this is a guinea pig specific forum, are you assuming the only animals that the members of this forum have experience with are only guinea pigs?

[crazywiggy]

4 Piggers:
Let me be blunt. Your two posts (to, and referring to me) were downright rude, aggressive and uncalled for.

I thought my point was perfecrtly clear. I do not agree with any person keeping any pet that they can not properly care for and give an excellent quality of life in a permanent home.
I do NOT believe this is possible for parrots - period. I specifically stated I do not think they should be legal as pets.

As for this:

As for parrots - unless you adopt a bonded pair, house them in a huge aviary, and give them huge amounts of time, enrichment etc then you shouldn't bother.

1) My whole point was that NO normal person can provide the right enviropnment for parrots. This wasn't a guide to parrot care.

2) Parrots are a social species. It is well established fact that housing social species on their own causes a huge variety of health and welfare problems.

3) I quite clearly was not referring to breeding pairs, having already stated "adopt" - not to mention this being an anti-breeding forum.

4) Of course many socially housed parrots as pets fight. Why do you think that might be? Perhaps because they are crammed into stupidly abusive cages where they can barely move, let alone get away from eachother, avoid eye contact etc?

5) I made no comment about spercific groupings, etc. I'm no expert on parrots and never claimed to be. Perhaps they could be housed in same sex groups? Perhaps neutered? I don't know - but at the end of the day they are a social species. As far as I'm concerned keeping a single parrot in a cage is like keeping a single guinea pig in a shoe box.

[4piggers]

Originally Posted by lmarieaa

Theres no need for the attitude...and if someone decided on getting a parrot solely because of THIS thread, well then, that person was going to be influenced somewhere else if a person is that easily influenced. A petsmart commercial would have done it.
So, because this is guinea pig forum, that means all animals have to be excluded from discussion? And also because this is a guinea pig specific forum, are you assuming the only animals that the members of this forum have experience with are only guinea pigs?

I dont have to *assume* that no one here knows nothing about parrots after reading this thread.

Pairs? and NEUTERING? This thread is just getting insane.

I recently had a so called *bonded* pair of birds surrendered. An amazon and a cockatoo. Cockatoos are very social, and become very bonded, and expect 110% of your attention. So when someone or someTHING comes in and takes that away? They get upset, they scream they pluck. This cockatoo would pluck till it bled, and would start up the second the owner would pay attention to the amazon. She surrendered them to me stating. "they have been together 23 years. they have to stay together" Really, this poor cockatoo would get so severely up set over the attention of the amazon...and you think they need to stay together. So....while in my care, and looking for a home to place them. My other birds started their morning call for breakfast. This cockatoo went nuts, so upset at the sounds of another bird....he went so crazy, he broke his neck against a wall, and died in my arms. So dont sit here and put in print for others to read, what *you believe* to be the *only* right thing. Someone is going to read this...think....wow, I only have one parrot for the past 10 years....maybe she is right. And make a huge mistake that can mess this bird up for the rest of his life...which could be an easy 40 more years.

Seriously, Ive made it a pact in my life to help teach people the right ways of these parrots...and stop these ugly, untrue, hurtful rumors on them.

Ive seen more ugly neglect when it comes to these pets then any of you can imagine. So to see you guys saying things like this on a public board?

And just because Im not a Ly&pigs or a Cavyspirt, doesnt mean I have no idea what Im talking about.

And...this double standard that no one can make a bird happy in a home. Who is to say your pigs are happy?(just because you add an extra grid to their confinment?) Or your dog, cat, fish, horse, rabbit, sheep....I could go on....

[Amsley246]

When ever we go to the big city (good old Charlettown) to go shopping sometime, my son goes nuts and wants to see the pet store. Being only 3 we humor him and take him in to look. Everytime we go in, there is a beautiful Parrot in there they named Bailey. They usually have her on her cage and she walks around as she pleases (it's acutally quite comical how she gets around the store sometimes). But you can see it on her face that she isnt totally happy. There has been a few times we've gone in and they have her locked her when there are a lot of people in the store. I feel bad thinking that sometime she'll be out and something will happen where she gets hurt or worse. I would love to buy her but I know I can't because there are other birds that need help and I just couldnt afford her anyways. It's too sad...

[crazywiggy]

4Piggers

You seem to be missing the point of my post completely. I do not believe parrots should be kept as pets. I do not think it should be legal. Why the hell would I try to give advice on correct parrot care when the ONLY advice I believe is simply "don't keep parrots"?

Someone is going to read this...think....wow, I only have one parrot for the past 10 years....maybe she is right.

Right.... So someone is going to come onto a guinea pig forum, see a thread about how horrible it is that parrots are being surrendered and euthanised becuase no one can cope with them, read all the posts about how sad the situation is and how hard it is to keep parrots properly - and then decide to pick out ONE WORD in my anti-parrot rant and base their parrot care on that?

Pairs? and NEUTERING? This thread is just getting insane.

I repeat - "I'm no expert on parrots and never claimed to be."

And...this double standard that no one can make a bird happy in a home. Who is to say your pigs are happy?(just because you add an extra grid to their confinment?) Or your dog, cat, fish, horse, rabbit, sheep....I could go on....

Will you please actually READ what I am trying to say before jumping to conclusions?

All animals are different so they have "species specific" requirements. However, there are some basic principles that apply across all animal species. These include a proper diet, suitable accomodation, adequate exercise, the ability to exhibit natural behaviours, etc.

One thing that proves true across every species ever studied is that keeping animals in unnatural / impoverished / boring environments - or where they can not exhibit normal behaviours - causes chronic stress. This leads to a variety of health and welfare problems.

So let look at parrots shall we?

1) All animal should have a permanent home. Since many species live to 50-60 years, and Macaws even 100, there is a HIGH chance if you get a parrot when you are already an adult yourself, the parrot may outlive you. Personally - I do not think ANY animal likely to outlive its owner is a suitable pet.

2) Freedom to express natural behaviour. What is one, single most important natural behaviour of almost every avian species? FLIGHT! Not just pointless flapping, or hopping from one perch to the next, but actual flight. Birds in cages can not fly.

In my opinion keeping a bird in a cage that is too small for it to fly is no different to keeping a mammal in a cage too small for it to walk.

Keeping a bird in a cage which prevents flight is therefore likely to cause a lack of exercise, frustration of natural behaviours, and generally stress and suffering.

Parrots are also large as pet birds go. An aviary that would allow a budgie to fly is still going to be far too small for a macaw to fly.

Since very few people have enough land to actually provide a large enough enclosure for their parrot to actually fly, I would say that they can not provide the parrot with what it needs.

3) Parrots are a social species, naturally living in large flocks. You have implied yourself that parrots should be kept singly as they will then bond to their owners and not another parrot etc? But then many other people have the problem mentioned in the original article - the parrot wants the company of its human all the time - and suffers when this is not possible.

So look at it this way:
You take a bird that is a naturally social species that hates to be alone. It can not be housed socially under normal "pet" conditions because this causes various problems (ie stress and suffering). So the only alternative is to keep parrots singly which caues - yes that's right - stress and suffering!

So basically, it is not possible to meet the parrots social needs in a pet envirnment.

4) Natural behaviours part 2. These large, social animal are though to have the intelligence levels of a human child. They lead complex lives, in a vast and complex environment.

Are you seriously telling me that keeping such an animal in a cage too small for it to move, with only a cuttlefish, a mirror and a bell is adequate?

On the other hand:

Who is to say your pigs are happy?

Well let me see. In order to be happy and healthy my pigs need a proper diet, suitable accomodation, freedom to express natural behaviours etc.

My pigs are in a cage large enough for me to provide enrichment, and still have enough space to exhibit normal locomotor activity - inc walking, running, playing piggie trains, popcorning, etc. They can exhibit their natural behaviour of chewing (unlimited hay, and toys - cardboard, wood etc), hiding (at least one hidey per pig), social interaction (I do not believe in keeping pigs alone), exploring (I rearrange the cage, or swap toys around). They are not denied anything except the opportunity to breed - and seeing as they can not see / smell / hear any males around this is unlikely to bother them.

How do I know they are happy?

Well, not only have I provided for their needs, they also behave normally and show no signs of stress or suffering. Unlike many parrots my guinea pigs do not show any abnormal or stereotypic behaviour, over grooming, or self harm.

Let me put it another way. THOUSANDS of parrots suffer from poor care in pet homes. Thousands die either from that poor care or euthanasia. That is not to mention the thousands that suffer and die in the trade in wild caught parrots - a trade would be almost eradicated if parrots were no longer kept as pets.
There are very, very few people who have the knowledge and understanding, space, time, money, and dedication to keep parrots in a decent way that does not cause suffering.

I feel it is better to protect the lives and prevent the suffering of thousands of birds than the rights of the few pet owners who could care for them properly.

[4piggers]

No I think you are missing my point. If you dont know the correct information...you shouldnt pass it on...

I repeat - "I'm no expert on parrots and never claimed to be."

So really you need to stop pushing information you have no clue to be true or not.

And the problem with people buying the parrots, is when they first bring them home, they spend way more attention on them, then they will ever be able to do their whole lives, and the bird learns to accept that. Raise them correctly to understand what attention is reasonable and they will be fine. (and parrots dont need *cuttlefish* I believe you called it...they just need a good diet)

I own 3 of my own birds, all in perfect feather, all talk and sing happily. They do not have crazy expectations of how much time I will spend with them.


And you say...

Well let me see. In order to be happy and healthy my pigs need a proper diet, suitable accomodation, freedom to express natural behaviours etc.

Suitable accommodations? A few grids and fleece? THAT you find suitable? Why? Because it makes you feel better as a pet owner? What about having grass for them to free range on and to run through, and sun and wind, and natural environment? After all...you say thats all that will make a bird happy? See the double standard here? Im wrong and a bad person for owning parrots...but you are just fine, and doing the perfect job confining a guinea pig. It cant be both ways.

[lmarieaa]

Why are you so angry that you must speak the way you do? You do not know me, you do not know my experience with birds, or anybody else here for that fact. You have the attitude "I know about birds and everybody else knows nothing", if you opened your mind a bit, and weren't so aggressive, maybe you could be more successful at getting your point across. There is no need for the hostility.
There you go mocking someone about how they care for their guinea pigs. Tell me, how do you know what she does and dosent do with them? How do you know they do not go outside and graze on grass?

[Paula]

And just because Im not a Ly&pigs or a Cavyspirt, doesnt mean I have no idea what Im talking about.

It does mean you don't get to dictate what people can and cannot discuss in this or any other thread.

Furthermore, your posts here are borderline offensive. No one has questioned whether or not you "know what you're talking about." You're the one that's been doing that to other members.

It's admirable that you run a rescue for these birds - it truly is, but your attitude here is only alienating people and not helping to break the stereotype you are accusing people of having towards the birds you love.

The bottom line here is that everyone is entitled to their opinion and reasons for them on whether or not these animals should be kept as pets. Same is true of any subject. But you do need to express those opinions respectfully.

[4piggers]

Originally Posted by lmarieaa

Why are you so angry that you must speak the way you do? You do not know me, you do not know my experience with birds, or anybody else here for that fact. You have the attitude "I know about birds and everybody else knows nothing", if you opened your mind a bit, and weren't so aggressive, maybe you could be more successful at getting your point across. There is no need for the hostility.
There you go mocking someone about how they care for their guinea pigs. Tell me, how do you know what she does and dosent do with them? How do you know they do not go outside and graze on grass?

because that would be against the rules here in cult land.

Open my mind to what? Bonding my parrots? Or neutering them?

There nothing here to open my mind to. Its a rescue/parrot owners nightmare to see these things in print.

Seriously it is equal to me saying...guinea pigs are only happy breeding. Would you not just go insane if you seen someone said such an off the wall thing? And then defend it?

All Im saying is...like you ask on the main topic of guinea pigs, if you dont know what you are saying...dont say it. Ive seen less things deleted on this board, about guinea pigs....you know like 1.5 grids instead of 2? Or...gee how fun would it be if my FEMALES could have babies with each other. Those get put down and deleted. But advice on BONDING parrots, or getting them NEUTERED stays. Sorry if I cant comprehend that.

Its wrong information...and def something I would never open my mind too. Ive seen the damage from such *advice*

[4piggers]

Originally Posted by paula.m.moore

It does mean you don't get to dictate what people can and cannot discuss in this or any other thread.

Furthermore, your posts here are borderline offensive. No one has questioned whether or not you "know what you're talking about." You're the one that's been doing that to other members.

It's admirable that you run a rescue for these birds - it truly is, but your attitude here is only alienating people and not helping to break the stereotype you are accusing people of having towards the birds you love.

The bottom line here is that everyone is entitled to their opinion and reasons for them on whether or not these animals should be kept as pets. Same is true of any subject. But you do need to express those opinions respectfully.

But it does mean I can tell someone they are tremendously misinformed.

Its not alienating anyone that would have listened anyway. I own parrots Im the devil. I dont follow around the *in* crowd here and kiss hiney. I have the wrong name title for anyone here to think of me as someone with a brain. It seems if you dont *own* this board, or suck up and be friends with the ones who do...then you are crud under others toes.

I enjoy my pets, I have breeding rabbits, (not to mention they live in hutches) own parrots. I have 2 pregnant guinea pigs, and I love reptiles, and have owned my fair share. This is why I dont say much on this board. Im here for cage ideas, and new food thoughts...and I love to look at pig pictures. Other then that...the cultness here hurts my head. But to see people talk so *off* on parrots, makes me want to stand up for them.

So burn me at the stake...

[Paula]

But advice on BONDING parrots, or getting them NEUTERED stays. Sorry if I cant comprehend that.

No one's offered advice on bonding or neutering. Someone merely asked a question about neutering, about the possibility. You're the one being rude - you're the one doing the condescending - and oddly enough, you're the only one missing the point. So the thread has been derailed, yes, and become crazy, but no one's made a greater contribution to taking it off track than you.

But it does mean I can tell someone they are tremendously misinformed.

If you can do so tactfully and with respect, absolutely. Thus far you haven't been able to accomplish that.

Its not alienating anyone that would have listened anyway.

This is a profound statement. I suppose you'll never know if they would have listened because you started the insulting before anyone had a chance.

You've made your points, and you've handed out your insults doing it. So from this point forward, unless you have something new to add to this discussion, please just stay out of it.

[lmarieaa]

Originally Posted by 4piggers

because that would be against the rules here in cult land.

Oh so you aren't alienating anyone with that little immature comment you just made?
I do not know how old you are but you sure are acting like you are in high school. You are acting incredibly arrogant, and if you weren't being that way, maybe someone would actually listen to you and what your point is. Attitude and aggression is NO WAY to get your point across nor to obtain respectful responses from others.