Bill to ban NYC horse drawn carriages

[lmarieaa]

http://www.ny1.com/Default.aspx?ArID=93071

As someone who has a deep passion and understanding for horses, carriages irritate me. I recently moved to Manhattan and noticed the horse drawn carriages right away. The horses always look tired and depressed. They always carry their heads very low, unless the driver is forcing them to hold their heads high for "show", which can be very painful for a horse to do.

I did some research regarding the carriage horses, and did not find anything good about them. Working 9+ hours on the concrete, constantly dodging traffic and inhaling exhaust fumes from the traffic. Many horses suffer from chronic joint and arthritis ailments and lung and breathing issues because of their work. The stalls that they go back to at the end of a long day don't even allow them to lay down properly to get the weight off their feet. Their "stables" are more like warehouses, and horses are forced to walk up very steep inclines to get to their stalls on other floors. There are even reports of horses collapsing from heat exhaustion during the summer months because the horses are not being given adequate water breaks.
The horses are "registered" with the city of New York, however horses are switched out for mandatory vet inspections so they can work an injured horse by having another horse in the vet check. A brown gelding one year is a white mare the next year.
Another thing I noticed is that some of the horses that are pulling these carriages are waaaaay too small. I have seen small standardbreds pulling large cart fulls of tourists, and you can tell that the horse is obviously struggling to keep pace. It sickens me to hear these carriage drivers defending themselves. That they "care" for their horses, and that they are not mistreating them. Excuse me!? WORKING A HORSE FOR 9+ HOURS IN BUSY POLLUTED STREETS (IN THE INTENSE HEAT AND IN THE FREEZING TEMPERATURES) IS OUTRIGHT CRUEL! Alot of these carriage drivers don't even know a single thing about proper horse care or husbandry. It appears you don't need to know a single thing about horses to get a liscense to drive them.

I know alot of people think "if they ban the carriages, what will happen to all of the horses? They will all get sent to slaughter, so we shouldnt ban carraiges." Well, where do you think all of the overworked horses that can no longer work go as of right now? A place with bright green pastures as far as the eye can see, and where the sun is always shining? I think not. They are sold off at auction- some go to slaugther, some get picked up by carriage horse rescues and other caring people, but most are ultimately killed. Hopefully, this cruel "tradition" will someday end.

[Paula]

I absolutely agree. It's cruel and absolutely unnecessary and should be banned everywhere, not just NYC.

Aside from the exhaust, the cruelty of making a horse work in such a way, it's dangerous for the horses and for people. I still remember seeing a horse that had been pulling a carriage that spooked, ran into traffic and collided with a car. It left the horse reeling in pain and shock and he had to be put down there in the street. There is nothing so fun or sweet or romantic or what have you about riding in a horse drawn carriage that justifies the risk of anything like that happening.

[auburnmare5]

I beyond agree with this. There are carriages in Boston, and I love the horses, and honestly I wanted to smack sense into the drivers of the carriages. They let the people put their fingers in the horses' mouths, etc... They just look outright miserable. And the animals best interest isn't taken seriously. Generally, police or others have to tell the drivers when to put the animals away, when they are overdoing it with the animals.
I went on a NYC field trip with school in June, and I saw a desperate horse with a carriage with what looked like a family of five in it. It was about 85 degrees that day, and I myself with a tee shirt and capris was dying hot. I honestly can't imagine what that horse was going through with I don't know how much extra weight with the harnessing, and working really hard to boot! I was appalled. About three streets down though, I saw an ASPCA car around the park and an officer at the line of carriages, and it appeared they were telling the drivers to put the horses away. I felt alot better after I saw that car. And I am sure the horses did too.
Not all of the horses go to slaughter. Besides, slaughter houses are now closed. Which in alot of ways is good, but I think there are a few downsides to this. Most usually get adopted, or sent to auction. But I doubt they will be killed considering it is also illegal to ship horses out to other countries to be slaughtered.

[Angelgal]

Haha PETA ... why does this surprise me?

As someone who does personally know carriage horses AND is teaching her own horse to drive, I am a little insulted and very well disagree. Just because you read some junk on the internet about how they are treated doesn't necessarily make it true, take guinea pig care for instance. If you've seen it with your own two eyes then that's another story - though that doesn't mean it should be banned. Not one of those horses in that video looked neglected or unahppy to me. Oh look, I see blankets and brushing!
If there are accidents then someone is lacking in proper training and desensitizing, along with a lack of respect by the general public. Have these animals been assessed by experienced vets and farriers? Proper farrier care can be taken for horses who do more work on the roads.

Like the man said, the SPCA is open to inspect the stable at any time. No one is stopping them. Just because there are some bad apples, doens't mean the world-wide population that is in the carriage business or teaches there horses to drive are cruel, neglectful owners. So that must mean the team of Fresian horses boarded at my barn are sooo neglected and not properly cared for right?

Just because care isn't up to par in one city doesn't mean it needs to be banned everywhere... If that's the case you should start looking at other disciplines because they are no better half the time. School horses don't get any credit or days off and they have unbalanced beginners kicking at their sides and pulling on their mouths allll day long, they aren't even lucky enough to get a stall at night, their usually pasture horses. Race horses are stall-bound and pushed beyond what nature ment for them. Working cow horses and edurance horses spend a lot of time in the saddle... but no one considers if they are over worked or getting proper treatment.

What's next, banning of racing/edurance/reining/SJ and all other horse related industries? Or the fact bits in the mouth is ooh so abusive?
Don't ban it and hide the problem, crack down on it. Did anyone think of the actual consequences behind banning this?? They are there...

[auburnmare5]

I don't think any of us said driving horses was bad. It is when people put their own welfare waayy before the animal's. As I said earlier, I have seen the drivers being TOLD to put their horses away because the "care giver" didn't think about the horse first. He didn't think about the steps to get there and their results, just the end product which in this case is the money.
I don't think anyone meant to insult you, but this was focusing on the NYC carriage horses, and not driving horses in general. I personally don't think it should be fully banned, but I don't think the rules/laws/regulations should be so loose and loosely interpreted by the workers.
And I think alot of it also has to do with the fact that only the bad things that happen are ever talked about. If it is all bad things that people hear, well the yeah people are going to say it is wrong because that is all people know. If there were actually some good stories that were involved in this, people's views would definitely be different.
I think that if something is going to be done about the improper (or not the best in this case) treatment of these horses, that it should apply to all horses, and not make separate problems out of everything little thing that goes wrong.
Also, there will be consequences for everything. If we don't do something, there will be without a doubt, consequences. If we do decide to do something, again, there will still definitely be consequences. It just depends on what views you have and what perspective you have on it.

[lmarieaa]

True, there are no more slaughter houses that kill horses i the US now, they just get sent to a slaughterhouse in mexico.

I wasent saying that carriages and driving horses were all bad. I simply meant that the profit driven drivers of the city street are bad because of the fact that they don't have the well being of the horse in mind- they have the well being of their wallets in mind.

I know that there are many drivers and trainers of this particular type of horse sport that take very good care of their horses and know what they are doing and are very experienced in their practice. I am not bashing the people, trainers, or drivers who do not abuse and overwork their horses.

[lmarieaa]

Angelgal, so you know alot about horses, its obvious. I do too, and have 3 of my own. Of course all sports involving horses have their bad apples, but these carriage horses are in the public eye constantly, we can literally SEE their pain. Have you ever seen an overworked carriage horse in a busy city? Come to Manhattan and observe the hack lines in front of central park. Maybe a little bit of your heart will see that these horses are completely miserable. Maybe other cities take care of their fragile horses, but NYC does not, they are out in 90 degree weather, they are out in freezing snow storms. They are out when they are not suppost to be and are overworked. They have had a chance to follow the rule and regulations and they have proven that they can't. Now its time to act.

[lmarieaa]

Actually you know what, I am not even going to respond to anything else in your post You are just another one of those horse people that thinks they know everything and would recommend "just smack em a little bit and he'll go" kind of person not aware of your horses happiness or well being at all. There are bits that do hurt, and all bits hurt when used improperly - you call yourself a horse person and you think bits don't hurt? your nuts.

[ColoradoMama]

We have the carriages here in Denver too, and my heart always aches for them a little when I see them downtown in the loud traffic of the city.

[auburnmare5]

I do see carriages as cruel in some ways, but I see another side to it as well. Although the animals are specifically trained to deal with the situations of city life, I don't think it is fair to put the horses under that kind of pressure. Horses are animals of prey and flight, meaning when something scares them, they react and usually, well, take flight. If the people actually expect these animals to act like they are not like this in an environment where there are constantly surrounded by the things that scare them, then they are going to react and sometimes this will have catastrophic results. If that is not somewhat wrong in one way or another, I don't know what is.