Pedigree dogs exposed

[crazywiggy]

Well the BBC has just shown the programme that may have the greatest effect on animal welfare in the UK ever!

A programme called "Pedigree dogs exposed". It went through how pedigree dogs are affected by so many horrendous hereditary diseases, as well as more general problems caused by inbreeding - and how the Kennel Club is denying the problem and allowing it to get worse.

Within the first five minutes of the show I was sobbing.... I have seen plenty of animal suffering but seeing a cavalier with syringomyelia writhing around on the floor literally screaming in agony and I was in pieces. My stepdad left the room, then went to the pub - he couldn't face it.

I honestly think this single programme has the potential to make a world of difference. By making these issues so public they have blown this almost unknown problem wide open. The breeders have come out looking like animal abusing morons, deliberately breeding and placing dogs KNOWN to carry these diseases. And the Kennel Club have been exposed as not being the mark of quality they are assumed to be, and not doing nearly enough to eradicate health problems.

Don't get me wrong the programme was heartbreaking - but I really think it might make a difference.

For some info check out BBC NEWS | UK | Pedigree dogs plagued by disease

[PixieStix]

It's great that someone's bringing light to these issues. People think that buying a dog from a so-called responsible breeder who registers their dogs and claims to better the breed means that the dogs are always healthy without genetic problems, which isn't the case.

[dra&pigs]

Yeah, I've known people who buy from people who clearly don't know what they are doing, but stick the name purebreed on the poor thing and its bought in a second. Unfortunatly, my mother wanted to buy from a breeder because she wanted a dog that would be garunteed (sp?) a small dog. But we did visit her farm, meet her dogs (cuties) and we googled her name and dozens of results from places came up. Almost all were positive. So we bought. She is in good health, although since she wasn't bought for a show dog we don't have her pedigree, she's just registered. But I can totally see where you guys are coming from and if we didn't have to worry about noise (we live in a double house) we would have adopted.

[Jennicat]

Adopting an adult dog from the pound is an excellent way to insure that a dog stays small.

[dra&pigs]

Haha, OK. I simply laughed when I saw your post. I know what my mom did was wrong, and I admit it. We wouldn't do it again. All the rest of the animals in our house have been adopted. I don't want to fight because I wouldn't be fighting for something that I think is right. (If I took my side).

[Peggysu]

Ulitimately, I believe rescues make the best pets.

[MommyOfTwo]

When I was a child we pooled all our Christmas money to purchase a purebred schnauzer puppy...Chelsea. She was beautiful, with the cutest personality.

She also developed diabetes, Cushings disease, cateracts, and skins diseases before she was 7 years old. Every time we took her to the vet for a new problem, "Oh, schnauzers are prone to this" popped out of his mouth. It was heartbreaking.

Never again. My parents adopted the next dawg.

[Ranchhand]

As an owner and breeder of purebred Border Collies I can assure you that not all breeders are created equal. My family has been raising these wonderful dogs for over four generations, and has not encountered any genetic health problems. Although we selectively breed for working ability, and not for show quality as I assume was the topic of the said program. The only conditions we must rush our dogs to the vet for are injuries caught in the line of duty (i.e. kicked by a mad momma cow). Although I have owned several rescued mutts and I have found them to be very good companions as well.

[PIGGYMAMMA495]

That link you posted only showed a few minute clip. Do you know of anywhere where I could download the whole show? It is so devastating whats going on over there and all o ver the world.
Im interested in seeing the whole show. If anyone knows if the full version is available to view let me know.

[FoolOnTheHill]

Originally Posted by PIGGYMAMMA495

That link you posted only showed a few minute clip. Do you know of anywhere where I could download the whole show? It is so devastating whats going on over there and all o ver the world.
Im interested in seeing the whole show. If anyone knows if the full version is available to view let me know.

You can watch it all on the BBC iPlayer: BBC iPlayer - Pedigree Dogs Exposed

I thought the programme was great. I knew a bit about how dogs were so inbred and had health problems (like pugs with their flat faces) but not the extent to which breeders didn't care. they made them look awful because they knew all about the problem with Ridgeback dogs and they were just like 'well if they didn't have the ridge they wouldn't be ridgebacks'. It made them seem very selfish and unconcerned for their animals.

I was also shocked that the Kennel Club has NO health checks whatsoever. Quite heartbreaking really becuase the little dog they showed with so many health problems could have bred and the puppies been shown.

I recommend watching the prog. It was very insightful. I hope a lot of people watched it who have no idea of the problem with some unscuptulous breeders.

[sophistacavy]

Originally Posted by Ranchhand

As an owner and breeder of purebred Border Collies I can assure you that not all breeders are created equal. My family has been raising these wonderful dogs for over four generations, and has not encountered any genetic health problems. Although we selectively breed for working ability, and not for show quality as I assume was the topic of the said program. The only conditions we must rush our dogs to the vet for are injuries caught in the line of duty (i.e. kicked by a mad momma cow). Although I have owned several rescued mutts and I have found them to be very good companions as well.

[sophistacavy]

Originally Posted by FoolOnTheHill

You can watch it all on the BBC iPlayer: BBC iPlayer - Pedigree Dogs Exposed

I thought the programme was great. I knew a bit about how dogs were so inbred and had health problems (like pugs with their flat faces) but not the extent to which breeders didn't care. they made them look awful because they knew all about the problem with Ridgeback dogs and they were just like 'well if they didn't have the ridge they wouldn't be ridgebacks'. It made them seem very selfish and unconcerned for their animals.

I was also shocked that the Kennel Club has NO health checks whatsoever. Quite heartbreaking really becuase the little dog they showed with so many health problems could have bred and the puppies been shown.

I recommend watching the prog. It was very insightful. I hope a lot of people watched it who have no idea of the problem with some unscuptulous breeders.

"Flat-faced" dogs aren't a health problem. The correct thing to say would be "when a dog has a flat-face, this can lead to unique health problems". Thank you very much, but I really resent my little shih-tzu Lexie being considered a health problem. I know you probably just made an accidental typo, but that would be like saying people w/orange hair and freckles have a health problem that caused them to appear the way they do. Lol.
I think its kinda mean how large Great danes are. Did intentional breeding make them so large? If anyone here has ever read "Amazing Gracie" by Mark Beckloff & Dan Dye (founders of Three Dog Bakery), then you'll agree that the way a great dane can break down when they reach "old age" (9-10 years? correct me if im wrong. 9-10 years is like half of a cat or cat-sized dog's lifespan, which is the 1st sad thing, one pet may be in their prime, while another may be suffering tremendously) is immensely depressing. They aren't allowed to, by nature, to enjoy life as long as smaller sized dogs. My Lexie, a shih-tzu, has a "inward sneezing" problem. The vet told me that its "probably a genetic deformity of her trachea and how its connected to her nasal passages, or the inner construction of her nasal cavity+sinuses"(whatever that whole breathing tube system is called, ), and is more common in all of the flat-faced breeds". Thats really sad! She stands there, and literally sneezes inwards, instead of outwards.
Well, thats all! This is a great thread, hopefully, it will change someone's mind and make them get a "genuine Heinz-57"!!
Also, purebreds can be found in shelters and rescues, so keep that in mind! I do have to say that shih-tzu's are my favorite, and I did get Lexie from an AKC registered shih-tzu breeder and couldn't be happier, but if I got another, I would look in shelters first.

[PixieStix]

Originally Posted by sophistacavy

I think its kinda mean how large Great danes are. Did intentional breeding make them so large? If anyone here has ever read "Amazing Gracie" by Mark Beckloff & Dan Dye (founders of Three Dog Bakery), then you'll agree that the way a great dane can break down when they reach "old age" (9-10 years? correct me if im wrong. 9-10 years is like half of a cat or cat-sized dog's lifespan, which is the 1st sad thing, one pet may be in their prime, while another may be suffering tremendously) is immensely depressing. They aren't allowed to, by nature, to enjoy life as long as smaller sized dogs. My Lexie, a shih-tzu, has a "inward sneezing" problem. The vet told me that its "probably a genetic deformity of her trachea and how its connected to her nasal passages, or the inner construction of her nasal cavity+sinuses"(whatever that whole breathing tube system is called, ), and is more common in all of the flat-faced breeds". Thats really sad! She stands there, and literally sneezes inwards, instead of outwards.
Well, thats all! This is a great thread, hopefully, it will change someone's mind and make them get a "genuine Heinz-57"!!
Also, purebreds can be found in shelters and rescues, so keep that in mind! I do have to say that shih-tzu's are my favorite, and I did get Lexie from an AKC registered shih-tzu breeder and couldn't be happier, but if I got another, I would look in shelters first.

Yes, larger dogs don't generally live as long as smaller dogs, especially giant breeds. So many dogs have inbred health issues, not just huge ones. You are so adament it's mean to breed giant breed dogs, do you support breeding tiny toys like two pound yorkies? Or I may have worded that incorrectly, do you think it's so mean that teeny tiny dogs exist as well as the huge ones? Do you think that it's mean that Dalmations are prone to deafness, many many many dogs are prone to hip dysplasia, Chinese Crested Hairless have no hair, etc? Even shih tzus can have problems that have been bred into them. I'm not saying that any of this is right to do, but most purebreds can potentially have issues, not just giant ones.

I have a five pound registered, papered Pom. Nope, I didn't go to the breeder, I got him from someone rehoming him due to severe allergies (who didn't really take good care of him). Luckily he's been healthy so far with the exception of a minorly loose knee cap and dental issues. My other dog is a mongrel, SPCA special. Mid sized, he's technically a senior now but perfectly healthy.

[Autaven]

I study Animal Care in college and the majority of my lecturers are breeders. They show their dogs at Crufts every year. It always makes me wonder (being someone who goes to rescues) how people who know what these things can do still do it.
I won't lie and say that I've never been interested in going to Crufts, all those animal lovers in the same place with stalls etc. But then you see things like this and it makes me ill.

[sophistacavy]

Originally Posted by PixieStix

Yes, larger dogs don't generally live as long as smaller dogs, especially giant breeds. So many dogs have inbred health issues, not just huge ones. You are so adament it's mean to breed giant breed dogs, do you support breeding tiny toys like two pound yorkies? Or I may have worded that incorrectly, do you think it's so mean that teeny tiny dogs exist as well as the huge ones? Do you think that it's mean that Dalmations are prone to deafness, many many many dogs are prone to hip dysplasia, Chinese Crested Hairless have no hair, etc? Even shih tzus can have problems that have been bred into them. I'm not saying that any of this is right to do, but most purebreds can potentially have issues, not just giant ones.

I have a five pound registered, papered Pom. Nope, I didn't go to the breeder, I got him from someone rehoming him due to severe allergies (who didn't really take good care of him). Luckily he's been healthy so far with the exception of a minorly loose knee cap and dental issues. My other dog is a mongrel, SPCA special. Mid sized, he's technically a senior now but perfectly healthy.

X_x I didn't exactly mean that part about it being "mean" to sound the way it did. I meant to say that I find it sad how so many large+giant breeds develop bone+joint/skeletal issues, and that arthritis must be harder for them. I'm not pitying them.
Yah, "pancake faces"(as I like to call them) can have unique deadly things happen to them that can be directly caused by an irresponsible handler, like collars. Brachycephlayic (sp?) breeds cannot wear collars because if the right amount and velocity of pressure is applied, then their trachea can collapse. Eeeks.

[crazywiggy]

I believe that it is morally wrong to breed animals that are likely to suffer health problems.
This includes deliberately breeding for dangerous physical traits (such as flat faces) as well as hereditary diseases like hip dysplasia etc (which are not deliberately bred in, just not being berd out because breeders can't be bothered to do the tests!)

I fully appreciate the benefits of having certain breeds of dog - it can help people in getting the type most suitable for them and their circumstances etc.

However - it should be possible to retain these characteristics without harming dogs in the process - but only if the breeders put health and temperament before appearence.

Take the shih tzu. If they simply bred it to not have such a flat face they could eradicate all the related health problems. It would still be a shih tzu. Still have the same generall apprearence, same personality, level of care etc.

Like the ridgebacks without ridges being culled. The ridged dogs are those prone to hereditary disease (whether they suffer from it or just carry it). The ridgeless dogs are the healthy ones.
A ridgeless ridgeback is THE SAME DOG only the healthy version! It will grow to the same size, have the same personality traits, the same working ability, the same needs etc. It doesn't suddenly stop being a ridgeback.

Yah, "pancake faces"(as I like to call them) can have unique deadly things happen to them that can be directly caused by an irresponsible handler, like collars. Brachycephlayic (sp?) breeds cannot wear collars because if the right amount and velocity of pressure is applied, then their trachea can collapse. Eeeks.

I do want to point out here that health problems are not only caused by incorrect handling! Many of these breeds can't go for a run (ever!) or even a short walk in warm weather, they may pass out if they get excited etc - because they can not breathe properly.... The fault lies in the stupid face, regardless of how they are handled.

I certainly believe the cause of the problem is breeding for appearence over "working ability". Obviously most dogs do not work now - they just need to be a pet. But in my opinion, every dog should be able to see, hear, walk, run, and breathe normally, and live a full and healthy life.

[AnimalHouse36]

Originally Posted by sophistacavy

I meant to say that I find it sad how so many large+giant breeds develop bone+joint/skeletal issues, and that arthritis must be harder for them

I have a purebred lab. Or rather my family does. We got her from a breeder. Yes I know. She is a sweetheart and we run or swim her every other day and we've done nothing wrong. My mother tries to justify the breeder saying she was responsible and the father was from showlines and the mother was from showlines so our dog would be perfectly fine.

My dog suffers from arthritis at age 6. Sometimes she can hardly get up. We have her on medication so most of the time this doesn't happen.

OUr neighbor has a bulldog labrador mix. Except she was purposly bred from showdogs. She is 4 years old and already she has gone through two knee surgeries.

Our other neighbor has a golden they got from a petstore. She has hip displasia.

One of my friends has a 13 year old sheperad mix. SHe's old but otherwise healthy. THey got her from a shelter.

Go figure!

[Janelle]

I always had purebred dogs growing up--a lot of them, as we lived out in the country and never had less than 4 dogs at a time. My parents still have all purebred dogs. My husband and I have a shelter special: a labrador/shepherd/who-knows-what-else mix. He is the best dog I have ever had!! I admit, I still drool over purebreds when I see them. But then I look at my sweet Darby and think of what a perfect boy he is for us and our kids. And we get comments all the time on what a beautiful dog he is! I will always be so grateful we visited that shelter that day, and any of our future pets will be from a shelter/rescue, too.

[PixieStix]

Originally Posted by crazywiggy

I believe that it is morally wrong to breed animals that are likely to suffer health problems.
This includes deliberately breeding for dangerous physical traits (such as flat faces) as well as hereditary diseases like hip dysplasia etc (which are not deliberately bred in, just not being berd out because breeders can't be bothered to do the tests!)

I fully appreciate the benefits of having certain breeds of dog - it can help people in getting the type most suitable for them and their circumstances etc.

However - it should be possible to retain these characteristics without harming dogs in the process - but only if the breeders put health and temperament before appearence.

Take the shih tzu. If they simply bred it to not have such a flat face they could eradicate all the related health problems. It would still be a shih tzu. Still have the same generall apprearence, same personality, level of care etc.

Like the ridgebacks without ridges being culled. The ridged dogs are those prone to hereditary disease (whether they suffer from it or just carry it). The ridgeless dogs are the healthy ones.
A ridgeless ridgeback is THE SAME DOG only the healthy version! It will grow to the same size, have the same personality traits, the same working ability, the same needs etc. It doesn't suddenly stop being a ridgeback.



I do want to point out here that health problems are not only caused by incorrect handling! Many of these breeds can't go for a run (ever!) or even a short walk in warm weather, they may pass out if they get excited etc - because they can not breathe properly.... The fault lies in the stupid face, regardless of how they are handled.

I certainly believe the cause of the problem is breeding for appearence over "working ability". Obviously most dogs do not work now - they just need to be a pet. But in my opinion, every dog should be able to see, hear, walk, run, and breathe normally, and live a full and healthy life.

I totally agree with you. I'm not sure if you were directing something at me, but I was pointing out many, many other breeds can have health issues other than just the giant ones. I don't think it's morally responsible to reproduce harmful traits and diseases. I would much rather have a healthy, happy dog than one with a harmful trait, even if they don't look as 'cool'.

Regarding flat faced dogs and respiratory issues, I know some airlines won't allow certain breeds to fly (like pugs) due to their reduced breathing ability.

Janelle, I also think the shelter is such a great place to get a dog. My (adopted) purebred is GREAT and I love him so, so, so much, don't get me wrong, but my shelter mutt has just the greatest, most tolerant, loving, mellow personality ever.

[Janelle]

Yeah, I'd consider adopting a purebred from a shelter, depending on the breed. But I certainly wouldn't give a breeder the hundreds-to-thousands of dollars for one. We did have some healthy and long-lived purebreds as I was growing up, though most had some sort of health issue at fairly young ages. Interesting how I had never really thought much about that before now. But I love my beautiful mutt!