Helpless Sea Lions Shot to Death

[VoodooJoint]

If you eat fish take a moment to think about the type of people you are supporting. Trapped sea lions shot on Columbia River - CNN.com

[Cosmictadpole]

That is so unfortunately. And they were shot when the were already in traps! Certainly seems like a backwards way to deal with the "problem" but then human "management" of wildlife usually is.

[Justin]

They have trapped the sea lions and returned to the other side of earth for many years. But the same sea lion just keeps coming back.

Due to human, the sea lions gained significant advantage and almost annihilated the salmons. In addition, majority of the damage is done by just a few individual sea lions, who are several times heavier than others thanks to the easy kills at the dams.

I see no alternatives other than destroying the dams, which seems to me, not so practical.

[VoodooJoint]

You can add human overfishing and destruction of habitat to the reason the Salmon aren't as populated as they were.

Salmon and seal lived in balance for thousands of years. It's man that came and destroyed the balance. You cannot blame the seals for trying to survive. If they are finding the fishing easier near the dams it's not their fault. No hunter, humans included, wants to expend more energy then necessary.

[Justin]

I agree that it's human fault. But what can we do?

Human overfishing was controllable. It was habitat destruction that killed salmons. And sea lions made it impossible to control the habitat destruction.

When salmons were dying out due to the dams, people got alert and made salmon path at the dams. It didn't work out. Sea lions have guarded the path and practically annihilated them.

I read an old articles at National Geography called "Face of the killer". It explained a lot of effort to keep the peace. But the sea lions are just too smart. The salmon program manager have begged for years to kill just a few notorious sea lions while salmons are dying out. But animal activists have stood strong for the sea lions. Not even single sea lion who were the most infamous.

There are really only three choices;

1. Kill few sea lions
2. Leave salmons die out, which will devastate all the sea lions as result.
3. Blast the dams.

I think it will be fun to blast all the dams. But then I don't think it will happen.

By the way, most of sea lions survive fine without feeding at the dam. It's matter of only a few smart ones who figured it out.

[paula.m.moore]

Relocating these sea lions has been big news out here for months.

The sea lions were already in the traps, waiting to be relocated, when someone came along and shot them. If the person or person responsible is ever caught, it's a federal crime, as the sea lions are a federally protected species, or something. So hopefully that translates into some significant jail time. Or, with any luck, castration without the benefit of anaesthesia.

The problem to the solution wasn't to shoot the sea lions - they thought of that originally but Portland is a very animal friendly place and we wouldn't have that. So they figured out a way to relocate them without killing any of them and then this - some insolent jerk, or jerks, came along and shot them.

Just wasn't sure if that was clear - it sounded like perhaps some posters here might have thought the authority's solution to the problem was to shoot the sea lions and that is not the case.

[Justin]

Fed has ignored local opinions for a decade before finally making that recent "relocating" decision. I have read many articles describing years of frustration and anger built up on the locals. Historically, the sea lions have relocated many times and returned just in weeks.

I agree that it's illegal. But I reserve my opinion on whether or not it was immoral. It is a deeper issue. Law is just agreement that we constantly change as necessary. It's a joke to force a law that suits you while disregarding a lot more that don't suit.

There are only a few argument that I disregards when they come from animal activists. Legality is the number one. Let's say that I have deepest respect to animal activists and their belief, unless they say; "You have to do this because it's legal!" Because they know that just being legal doesn't mean that it's moral. That's the point of them trying so hard to change immoral laws.

[Justin]

Maybe I am not so liberal after all. I see a few liberal laws went too much and don't allow reasoning.

[Biscuit]

You are definitely "in it" right now, either way.

[Justin]

For the reasons above, I find the below as a joke from the referenced article.

Washington and Oregon have been granted federal authorization to capture or kill as many as 85 sea lions a year for five years at the base of the dam.

The Humane Society of the United States has gone to court to challenge the authorization, with another hearing set for May 8. Until a judge rules, no animals may be legally killed.

"We're really shocked," said Sharon Young, a Humane Society spokeswoman, who learned about the sea lion deaths from a reporter. "We're a nation of laws, and we should expect people to abide by them.

[Justin]

Originally Posted by paulammoore

The problem to the solution wasn't to shoot the sea lions - they thought of that originally but Portland is a very animal friendly place and we wouldn't have that.

Apparently, "we" didn't have any legal right to make the decision. "they" made it for "we."

In this instance, "they" were Humane Society, not even Feds.

[paula.m.moore]

Originally Posted by Justin

I agree that it's illegal. But I reserve my opinion on whether or not it was immoral.

I too can sympathize with anyone who might depend on the salmon to make their living.

But I think shooting a caged animal who cannot get away and has no means of defending itself is deeply, woefully immoral, among many other things.

[Justin]

Originally Posted by paulammoore

I too can sympathize with anyone who might depend on the salmon to make their living.

Sorry for the misleading. I don't sympathize the commercial fishermen. I don't have feelings for individual salmons either. I only pity salmons as a specie, equally endangered as sea lions

Originally Posted by paulammoore

But I think shooting a caged animal who cannot get away and has no means of defending itself is deeply, woefully immoral, among many other things.

In this specific instance, I think it's no more immoral than shooting uncaged sea lions, which can't get away from bullets either. The sea lions learned to be not afraid of human. Killing wild ones would be just as easy as killing caged ones. My wild guess is that the caged ones were the worst ones. I think it is necessary. And yes, it does reveal my level of moral.

[Justin]

After a few days of my replies above, I am regretting. I am sorry.

My replies described the situations with false logic of generalization and simplification.
I changed my side between fishermen, salmon activists, and anarchists as it fits without proper notice.
I hurt other side's credibility by inviting uninformed attacks, using initially undisclosed supporting facts.
I alienated organizations and its own members to exaggerate number of people who agree with my idea.

Animal killing is genuine sin. Having a few point in verbal argument is airy and meaningless. There must be a better solution and it will be found if enough money is spent.

[kavykrazy]

The sea lions were not shot according to the necropsy. They were also tested for poison, also negative. They are still looking for what killed them. The traps they were in were not supposed to be shut. They were left open until the next rounds of transporting to aquariums. The traps were shut by whoever killed them, not the federal govt workers.

The reason the sea lions were not killed was because of the large amount of chinook expected to return this year. The sea lions are hardly decimating the population....85 sea lions cannot kill off tens of thousands of fish. People kill far more fish than that. (If you want more on that, read up on "by catch". It allows for X amount of non targeted species to be killed in the catching of the target species. My favorite is cod...only certain species can be caught, but in the process other "non-targeted" ones are caught. All non targeted species must be thrown back, but as they are a deep water fish, once they are brought to the surface they will die. So why not just keep all the cod caught?)

[Justin]

Originally Posted by kavykrazy

People kill far more fish than that.

You gave several good points. I just wanted to mention one thing to clarify. The trouble with sea lions involves habitat disturbance where salmons reproduce. Something like one salmon killed at the dam is worth a lot more at ocean.