Baytril not working??

[bpatters]

Unfortunately, Baytril is about the best there is for an URI. Guinea pigs are extremely sensitive to antibiotics -- they can't take any of the "-cillins," for example. And they are so dependent on adequate bacteria in their GI tract to be able to digest their food that anything that upsets that balance can really do them in.

It's a balancing act to treat a pig for a bacterial infection without killing it with antibiotics. Baytril is usually reliable and has less effect on the GI system than many of the others. It's almost always the first choice for an URI, the way Bactrim is usually the first choice for an UTI. Normally, the alternatives to those treatments are to let the pig get sicker on its own, or make it sicker by giving it stronger A/Bs.

If if were possible to culture organisms that cause URIs in guinea pigs, they could target the treatment better. But pigs have to be anesthetized to have nasal cultures done, and you don't want to anesthetize a pig that's already having breathing problems.

All that is not to say that a pig that doesn't improve on Baytril after a reasonable amount of time shouldn't be switched to another A/B -- just that A/B therapy in guinea pigs is problematic all the way around, and that you can wind up doing more harm than good if you're not very careful.

[grace505]

My guinea pig is not improving on Baytril, either. It's only been a week, but really...it's not the best.

Actually i've read multiple places, and also the vet said, it's one of the "big guns" but not every bacteria is susceptible to every medication. Just because it's a big gun doesn't mean that the bacteria will respond to it, they may have to switch it up. See how it goes for a few, as long as he's not getting worse, and talk with the vet about it. My vet is really nice and talks with me about all the options, i hope yours is nice too! Good luck!!

Update on my two boys-Turbo is now on Bactrim after three weeks of Baytril. Six doses later and i'm seeing a big improvement, the Baytril was helping but just not finishing the job. Diesel went to the vet yesterday because i was worried he wasn't pooping much in the morning after all the aforementioned problems in this thread. He's pooping more now, of course i just switched them over from the crap pellets they came with to the Oxbow ones i ordered and was waiting for, but still wet and clumpy. Vet gave course of Bactrim for him, since he had a BAD reaction to the Baytril last week, and he seems perkier already. Vet said no veggies for a few days till poop firms up, only pellets and hay. He's not liking not having veggies and is begging for them, i put Turbo in the playpen to have his veggies so hopefuly Diesel is not realizing how much he is missing! :) THANK YOU to bpatters and SurfingPigs for all the help and advice given, it really helped put my mind at ease. I'm really seeing them be more perky and i can't wait to get back to them being more active again and feeling better!!

[grace505]

bpatters, if Diesel had a bad reaction to Baytril could he do the same with ALL ABs? He seems to be starting the same slide again with the Bactrim, but it might be too early to tell. All i know is on the 25th went to vet and she said no veggies and started Bactrim in pm. 26th he had am/pm ABs and was pooping more and it seemed to be getting firmer again. This morning-27th-he seems to be having diarrhea again and not eating and drinking very much. Right now i'm drawing up a chart so i can reference between Baytril slide and what's going on now and i don't like what i'm seeing at all!! Thank you in advance for all your help!

[bpatters]

No, a bad reaction to one A/B doesn't necessarily mean a bad reaction to all A/B's. But it is possible to have problems with more than one. I'm allergic to about six of them, so have to be very careful about which ones I take, and for what -- I tend to save them for major illnesses, and just tough the others out.

What's the status of his symptoms now?

[Gigabyte]

@bpatters - You're right! His URI cleared up last night! I guess I was being impatient.

[grace505]

No, a bad reaction to one A/B doesn't necessarily mean a bad reaction to all A/B's. But it is possible to have problems with more than one. I'm allergic to about six of them, so have to be very careful about which ones I take, and for what -- I tend to save them for major illnesses, and just tough the others out.

What's the status of his symptoms now?

Actually, he's been drinking water now and he's eating some, but not seeing any poop now. I let him and Turbo run around the room and they really liked that, but now that they're back in their playpen they're bumming around again. I'm weighing him often just to keep an eye on him. I think he's not eating as much overall because he can't have veggies and i switched him to Oxbow pellets from the pellet mix which had all the yummy stuff in it that's not good for them, so they're like boring! ;) He lost some weight the first day i took him off the veggies but he's been maintaining now, so we'll see. I'm going to keep a very close eye on him and i'll update you again later. By the way, i looked at the poisonous plants list and didn't see schefflera on there, do you know anything about that? Turbo just ate two leaves and i'm kind of freaking out! Thanks.

[bpatters]

It's my understanding that schefflera is toxic, but when I googled it to check, half the sites said yes and the half said no. So now I don't know.

You should watch your pig for any adverse reactions, but honestly, even if he has any, I don't know what you'd do about it. Guinea pigs can't vomit, so the only thing to do is let it go through normally.

[grace505]

[QUOTE=bpatters;609087]It's my understanding that schefflera is toxic, but when I googled it to check, half the sites said yes and the half said no. So now I don't know.

You should watch your pig for any adverse reactions, but honestly, even if he has any, I don't know what you'd do about it. Guinea pigs can't vomit, so the only thing to do is let it go through normally.

That was my experience too! I found a Merck vet site that said yes, but didn't say anything to awful in effects and to treat symtomatically possible diarrhea, drooling, etc. He seems fine, it's been almost an hour, so we'll see, boy, do i feel dumb!! Diesel finally pooped some, not too watery, more what it's been with just the soft and mushy variety, so i'll keep watching. Thanks for all your help!!

Here is a link to the site if anyone is interested, i cannot say about accuracy, but it seemed pretty knowledgeable. If i'm not allowed to do this, i'm sorry!!!!

Poisonous Houseplants and Ornamentals

[bpatters]

Back to Diesel. Just in the last day or so, two people who have had pigs with mushy poops have taken them completely off pellets and seen an improvement. Have you tried that?

[grace505]

Back to Diesel. Just in the last day or so, two people who have had pigs with mushy poops have taken them completely off pellets and seen an improvement. Have you tried that?

Not yet, he's not eating much hay, niether of them seem to be eating as much as i'd like, so i'm kind of waiting to see what's going on but will keep that in mind. I know the vet mentioned that the higher fiber Oxbow pellets could cause diarrhea.

Also, the website talks about the schefflera and other plants containing oxalates, is that the same thing as the oxalic acid listing in the nutrition chart? I think so, because they also mentioned swiss chard and spinich having oxalates. I hope that means the a little is okay, i'm keeping a close eye on Turbo and he seems okay so far. Thanks!!

[bpatters]

Oxalates are compounds made from a reaction of oxalic acid and another compound, usually a metallic one. Calcium is classified chemically as a metal, and forms calcium oxalate in a reaction.

[grace505]

So i know HOW to disinfect, but how often should i be doing it while they are sick, changing bedding, cleaning water bottles, etc? They are both at various points in their antibiotic treatments and i'm worried that they're just reinfecting each other and themselves by not disinfecting things. Any suggestions? Also, someone stated that if they are having breathing problems then it's pnuemonia, is that true? If so, is there a different treatment for that then just a URI? I'm just wondering because it's taking Turbo so long to kick this. Thanks!

[grace505]

How long should it take for withholding veggies to firm up poo? It's now been four full days and it's been real back and forth from the mushy to the better. Yesterday it looked pretty good, small correctly shaped poos but still in kind of a clump but not nearly as wet and then this morning it's all mushy again. He's been on ABs this whole time and as he had a really bad reaction to the Baytril, it could just be the Bactrim, although i'm giving probiotics two hours after every dose. Any thoughts? What else could it be? I know one thread mentioned maybe a parasite?? He is eating and drinking real well and staying pretty steady right around 1.9 pounds, so that's good at least! Any thoughts on my previous post would be great also, thanks!!

[bpatters]

If he's on A/Bs, that's no doubt the reason for the mushy poops. As long as he's eating and drinking and isn't puffed up, I wouldn't even worry about them until a couple of days after he finishes the medicine. If they're still mushy then, it's time to be concerned.

[grace505]

If he's on A/Bs, that's no doubt the reason for the mushy poops. As long as he's eating and drinking and isn't puffed up, I wouldn't even worry about them until a couple of days after he finishes the medicine. If they're still mushy then, it's time to be concerned.

I have a hard time knowing what puffed up looks like, not having any experience. His fur does looked somewhat puffed up, but he tends to sit in a more compact position as opposed to Turbo, who stretches out when he lays down. Is it more like hair standing on end as opposed to looking a little fluffy maybe?? I wish i had had them longer before all this started, so i would have a baseline to go by!! Thanks.

[grace505]

My question is not about a URI, but a possible UTI, but i thought i'd keep everything on the same thread to make it easy. Diesel now seems to be sqeaking while pooping, but he didn't when he was peeing when i saw him. Is that purely indicative of stones or could it be a URI? I haven't seen any blood in the pee but am going to start taking a closer look at that. Would the blood be obvious, or maybe not? He never did this before he went to the vet for mushy poo on 2-25-12 and finally his poo is solid again, four days now, started feeding just lettuce today, but he is having some teardrop-shaped poos, but not all of them. The vet put him on Bactrim on 2-25-12 which he is still taking, so if it's a UTI that should take care of it, right? If not, then stones would be my next concern for sure. Should i not wait to see if it clears up with the Bactrim though? He is still peeing, he tried to pee on me last night! Thanks!

[bpatters]

Squeaking while peeing could be either stones, UTI, interstitial cystitis, or the wrong phase of the moon. (Just kidding about the moon...)

The Bactrim should take care of any UTI, but there have been cases where it hasn't. If he isn't better by the time he finishes it, you should probably take him for an x-ray. A stone or sludge should be visible, and if it's IC, you may even be able to see a thickening of the bladder wall.

Unless he's just really obviously sick or in pain except when he's peeing, I'd probably watch him carefully until he's off the Bactrim. But if he's hurting or gets worse or stops peeing, take him in. A stone can block the urethra and cause kidney damage from the urine backup.

[grace505]

Thought i'd post an update on my boys. No more diarrhea for Diesel and he's back to all veggies again, he's SO HAPPY! Just before he finished his round of Bactrim he started sneezing and now has a crusty nose and snot and a somewhat crusty eye. Turbo finished his Bactrim as well and although the sneezing diminished quite a bit, it is still happening and sometimes his breathing is good and sometimes it has sounds with it or sounds labored. I talked to the vet and he gave a script for Doxy, which is EXPENSIVE, but if it clears them up, i'm all for it. If that doesn't work i guess i'll try Baytril and Doxy, but Diesel doesn't tolerate Baytril, maybe Bactrim with Doxy for him?? After that maybe a neubulizer i guess. I'll just jump off that bridge when i come to it!! They both seem to have a bit of fungal ear which i am treating with generic Lamisil, just started, we'll see how it goes. Other than that, they are both eating more and more every day, pellets, hay and veggies, are gaining weight, and are more active than they have been through this whole thing, so that tells me they are feeling better and i'm happy about that! I guess the only thing i'd question is if Diesel's round of Bactrim was long enough (two full weeks). He was kind of hunched and puffed for quite a few days and didn't really start laying out and feeling altogether better till about halfway into his treatment. Does anyone know if the Doxy would take care of any lingering UTI issues if there were any? I'm not seeing signs anymore, and no more squeaking while pooing, but it just took him so long to feel better that i'm not sure it's completely gone. I could give him more Bactrim, but wouldn't mix it with the Doxy unless the vet said okay. Hopefully the Doxy will take care of both UTI and URI!!

[SurfingPigs]

I'm happy to hear they are improving! Yes, doxy should be able to do the trick to wipe out whatever is left; some URIs take multiple rounds of treatment to fully kick. How long were you told to treat them with the doxy?

[grace505]

I'm happy to hear they are improving! Yes, doxy should be able to do the trick to wipe out whatever is left; some URIs take multiple rounds of treatment to fully kick. How long were you told to treat them with the doxy?

I don't know, they had to order it and i won't get it until tomorrow, but my vet usually does two weeks and has me call him and let him know if i need more, check on progress, etc. Would the Doxy take care of any lingering UTI issues as well, if there were any? Also, this is been an ongoing fight since i got them in January, is this what i can usually expect or are they really pretty healthy generally and i just have to find the right thing sometimes? Thanks!!