Advice Needed

[Angelgal]

I'm new here. I have a little cavy, Angel ... she's 4 (5 on Oct 28).
Well, my little girl hasn't been feeling too hot the last couple weeks.

On Friday, May 30 - I was doing my weekly cage strip, clean, re-bed and animal health checks (I have a cavy and a chinchilla). I noticed my cavy, Angel was sneezing and had a clear eye discharge/crust. Immediatly I put her in isolation, which ment moving the Chinchilla's cage to another room.
I gave her fresh water, pellets, hay and some apple slices. As I brought the apple slices, I had some for myself - I bit into one and she didn't seem to notice, she just lay there. Usually she sqeaks and demands her food. I started to take notes of her symptoms, water intake and behavior for when I made the Vet appointment. Since it was late (10pm) it had to wait until the morning hours.

Over the weekend, she hardly ate or drank and was dull/lathargic. I made her a Vet appointment ... the exotic Vet wouldn't see her, but I knew a family friend (trusted Vet) was filling it at our usual vet (the one we take our dog to) so I made an appointment with them for Tuesday June 03. I kept record of her food & water intake, as well as behavior and symptoms over the weekend.

By June 03 her appetite had improved somewhat, she was starting to eat little things again like her hay, carrots and apples and she was drinking a bit more. She was still unresponsive to usual sounds (russling bags, biting into carrots/apples, fridge door opening - all of which makes her go nuts in her cage). The vet said she was a big girl weighing in at 2.4lbs and her teeth and temp were good. She said she didn't want to put her on antibiotics at this time because of the risk of that putting her appetite off again. She told me to keep an eye on her and bring her back if she had any weight loss or nasal discharge. Okay, $70 later I'm relieved with unhappy parents.

I continued to watch her, keep her bedding clean and dry and the room a good temperature. I kept a fresh supply of hay, pellets, veggies and weighed her daily.

Over the next 4-5 days I could see an improvemnt in her. She was really perking up, bright eyed and demanding everything from food to attention and seemed back to her normal self. The sneezing had started to decrease and the eye discharge and crust was slowly improving and disappeared for a couple days.

Well, now on June 14 and the last 2 days, there is a slight discharge with a bit of eye crust. She's been sneezing more frequently again and I cannot find anything directly after she sneezes, however I'll pick her up to find a brownish crust on the fur all around her nose. I have yet to weigh her again to see if there has been any weight loss, but she's still quite perky.
I'm currently unemployed ... I'm thinking I should take her back to a Vet and get antibiotics (I think its a Respiratory Infection) but my parents disagree and are fighting me on it, they keep telling me "just keep an eye on her." I've done my research and found a list of safe antibiotics (don't need anything toxic going in her little body!).

What do you guys think I should do? ... this is my baby girl, she means a heck of a lot to me and to loose her would be devistating. I know she's getting older but she's helped me through so many things, I know she has some more years yet. She's more than just a guinea pig to me.

Thansk in advance!

P.S. I'll be weighing her later and I'll edit my post with an update on that. She doesn't seem like she's lost anything.

[Haley0489]

Sounds like a URI Guinea Lynx :: URI
If she doesn't receive treatment then she will more than likely die. Weight loss in guinea pigs is often only a few ounces, which is hard for us to "feel" or see. Best thing to do is print off the URI page and toxic medication page on Guinea Lynx and get her to a vet asap.

[rabbitsncavyluv]

You're right. You need to get antibiotics for her. The infection will not go away on its own and can quickly develop into pneumonia. Can you argue with the vet who saw her before? Perhaps they will prescribe ABs without having to see her again?

[Ly&Pigs]

tiffanyAtt, I have unapproved your post for giving bad advice. In the future, do not post in the medical section on any threads unless you are medically knowledgable about guinea pigs.

[tiffanyAtt]

tiffanyAtt, I have unapproved your post for giving bad advice. In the future, do not post in the medical section on any threads unless you are medically knowledgable about guinea pigs.

I did not mean to give bad advice Im a farm girl and here if you dont have alot of money you give your own med I have saved many animals by doing this and I plan on continuing doing this as long as I can help animals I dont think there is anything wrong with this Im sorry you guys dont think this is aporpeate(sp). I was just try to help!

[Ly&Pigs]

The problem is you can't give guinea pigs just any old antibiotic. When there is a suspected illness, it's not a good idea to self diagnose or self medicate. Your advice could cause the death of a guinea pig and we do not allow advice like that here.

Treating mites at home is one thing. Treating diseases or illness is quite another matter. The advice you gave could end up killing someone's pig. I don't want to see you telling people to go to a feed/farm store and buy antibiotics to give their pigs ever again. I would appreciate it if you'd just not reply to any medical threads from now on if that is the kind of advice you are going to give.

I know you were trying to help but your advice was bad advice.

[Newpiggiemom]

My vet got really angry when she found out that I treated for mites at home as a precaution. She told me that the horse paste is not (I can't remember the right word) but it's not the same throughout and you can overdose on that too. She really wasn't happy that I had done that.

[Angelgal]

Thank you for the advice.

I would be way to afraid to administer antibiotics to her myself. I know there are a lot of toxic antibiotics and some safe, but I would be way too afraid of over dosing her. Anything that would be given to any other animal I have for something like a respiratory infection would be toxic to her and kill her.

I'm still trying to get her into a vet, the 2 exotis are booked up and don't do emergancy service :/ there are very few of those in the area ... the vet who saw her before travels to different animal hospitals when she's needed. She is sort of family friend and I am trying to see if she'll come look at her and help with the antibiotic thing. That way I can get a proper dosage and get hold of a safe antibiotic. I don't mind giving medications, I know what's safe and what's not ... its just I'd be afraid to calculate a dosage.

I weighed her and she was 2.5lbs so no weight loss. She's still demanding food like normal but one thing that's starting to scare me is the fact she's going through a lot of water in a day and I'm finding a lot of wet bedding around her water bottle, its not leaking, I checked that but I think she's drinking a lot and spilling a fair amount. She's currently in a stable condition, possibly improving just a bit but I'm willing to spend as much money on her as its needed, if only I can get a Vet to see her! Their suppost to call if anything openes up soon, otherwise its not for a couple weeks that anyone can see her (I have to look at my calander again).

[Angelgal]

If anyone recalls my last thread, I had about seeking advice about my cavy, Angel. My 4yr old (almost 5) female Teddy cross.

Well, she did end up back at the vet and they took her in, no appointment needed. I had to settle for a local exotic vet that I wasn't 100% sure about because the other I was trying to get her into would not return calls about booking an appointment, and since its not local I can't just drive there.

This clinic she went to has been amazingly supportive. They took her in, examined her, gave her a shot of antibiotics and started her on a course of oral antibiotics. The only part I didn't like was I couldn't be back in the examination room with her, but I told the staff everything I could and asked very question I could think of (they ran back and forth). Then the next day after starting the course of antibiotics, she went totally off her food and water. She wouldn't touch anything and was unresponsive to my voice & sounds (I make a kissing noise and she squeals). I took her back into this vet and he was great, he immediatly took her off the orals, gave her a nutritonal supplement to replace what she wasn't taking in ... and gave her another injection.

Well its been a couple days now and there is still no real improvement in her. She sits hunched up in a corner of her cage, won't drink, nibbles on some hay and is still unresponsive to sounds. I've been giving her water via syringe every hour, every 3 hours during the night. I've been gringing up pellets and feeding via syringe roughly 3 times a day. Then she gets her supplement twice a day.

I know that half a dropping of a healthy cavy in the water can help rebalance the gut flora ... but I've searched high and low for a healthy pig. Rescues, pet stores and friends. Nothing, no luck. Is there anyone in the Quinte West area, Ontario that can help me out??? ... I know dairy products aren't recommended as they are herbivors but if I have no other options, what are your opinions on that?

Now, I'm running out of options here. I've put so much into vet bills to do everything I can for her, but it feels like I'm getting no where. She's just lifeless, she has her perky moments but it doesn't last long. Euthanizing her has crossed my mind, especially if she's really not improving because being under 18 ... my family just cannot afford hundreds in vet bills for her and not have any change (we're already at $200 in vet bills).

Should I take her back to this exotic vet? or Should I find another vet and see what theyh say or can do? ... or should I really consider euthanizing her.

I feel so lost right now. This is my baby, and I want to do everything I can for her but there are only so much the vets and I can do. I would find the money if I had to, but this is also becoming so hard on me, emotionally and physically (being up every 3 hours in the night to keep her drinking). I'm physically and mentally exhausted.

I'm sorry I can't provide the names of the antibiotics, being as tired as I am its just not coming to mind. Though I can say I had my safe & toxic lists and I was on top of it.

Does anyone have any suggestions for me? I'm out of ideas, but I don't wanna let my baby go just yet. Not unless I have to.

[rabbitsncavyluv]

What are the symptoms and what did the vet say was wrong with her? Were her teeth examined or was an x ray done?

So she is not on any oral ABs or pain meds right now?

[Ly&Pigs]

I am merging this with your other posts as threads about the same pig and their current medical problems need to be kept together so people don't have to go hunting down previous posts and we can keep everything together. It's a rule to have one thread per pig and to update that thread as necessary.

[salana]

She is intolerant of the antibiotics. If you don't have any healthy guinea pigs around, ask the vet for a probiotic gel (the name escapes me at the moment) or give her acidophilus tablets or capsules (available wherever vitamins are sold).

You will have to handfeed her until she eats on her own again, and supplement extensively with the probiotics to try and get her gut back to normal. I don't know how much pellet mash you're getting into her now, but she needs 60-100cc per day. Most people split it up into 4-6 feedings.

P.S. I have to say that it's very nice to see such a mature, responsible, and well-spoken individual your age on the forum. I hope that you will continue to participate and enrich the forum.

[Angelgal]

Sorry, I'm still learning to work this laptop of mine and its hard to scroll to find my original post.

[Angelgal]

I have to say, this laptop is becoming very annoying. I did a whole post yesterday to find out today that it did not go through!!! Very frusterating.

First off I would like to thank everyone for their suggestions and support. You've all been amazing and very helpful. I'm not sure what I would have done without it.

Now for an update on Angel.

For the Pellet mash it's been 20cc's (its a 10cc syringe) 4 times a day. The problem with it being ni 6-10 times is how long it takes me to hand crush the pellets and my schedual doesn't always allow for it. I'm doing my best to care for her but I have other animals who also rely on me (a chinnie, a horse and a dog). I feed her in the morning, noon, afternoon/evening and late night. She's getting around 80cc's a day with me.

I've also been making sure she drinks plenty of water. So I also give her water through a syringe every 1-1.5hrs again it depends on my schedual and it may vary because I may not be there on the dot. However I am trying my best and I am making sure she stays hydrated. How much I give her really depends on her, sometimes she won't want much or any at all, while others she wants more (she'll grab the syringe in her mouth and pull on it). so its hard for me to describe an amount, but my goal is keep her from being dehydrated.

I picked up some of those tablets today, stopped at the vet's but they were closed and they are the only local who does exotics. Salana, would I just crush them and add them into the pellet mash when I feed it?? as well, how much should I be giving her of the tablet per day? 1/4, 1/2, a whole?? If that doesn't work I can make a trip to the other exotic vet, their a couple towns over and its a good lengthy drive but it'd be worth it. They are the ones who wouldn't return my calls about booking an app for my girl.
I have yet to weight her again but before her lack of eating she was 2.5lbs I don't think she'd beunder 2lbs if she did loose anything. My mom did something with the scale so I've had to wait.

She's looking much more perky and active today. She's being such a good girl with the syringe feeding. I'm keeping a fresh supply of pellets, hay, grass and Vit C water in her cage. I have noticed her eating the fresh grass and pellets. She has access to both a dish of water, as well as her water bottle and I've been noticing her going to the dish more ... I'm unsure if she's just sniffing it, or if she's acutally drinking but I'll find out tomorrow when I go to change it as I've got a measured amount of what I put in.

Now, I cleaned her cage out as well today and noticed a lot of the poops were very soft and sort of runny. I did noticed some had a clear mucus in them, but they looked older from a couple days ago?? How concerned should I be? I just examined some fresher droppings and their very soft, not much form to them but no mucus stuff. I think this may have been caused by the unbalance of gut flora due to the antibiotics she was on. Still can't think of the name of them though ... shoot... I'll stop in at the clinic and ask them to check for me.

I'm hoping to see more improvement from her. When I waked in (stopped typing to go eat) I did my kissing noise thing and she at least came to the cage to see me and investigate, which is better then when she would just sit there not caring. So I can see my baby is slowly improving.

I really do appreciate everyones advice.

[Ziggy&Herald]

She's probably going to the dish more because you have Vit C in her bottle. That does nothing but make the water taste bad to them. The Vit C breaks down too quickly for it to do any good. You really need the tablets or try and feed more veggies that are rich in C.

It is good that she seems to be recovering, but do stop the Vit C in the water immediately.

[Angelgal]

I had Vit C in both, actually. I've definatly taken it to heart though.
Usually I have just plain water and I would just feed her veggies that are rich in Vit C, however when she stopped eating, she wasn't getting that so I was at a bit of a loss. Since none of the stores I visited had any tablets in stock, and not being able to drive that's very few, I had to resort to the drops in hopes that she would get something out of it. Her food does (or it says) has Vit C in it.

I had never had a problem before when I did add them to the water in the past (drops or tablets). I just changed her water, so its plain water now (I change it 2-3 times a day to keep it cool and fresh especially with the heat). I'll try to encourage her to eat some veggies, see how that turns out.

She still seems pretty happy, she's currently snoozing. The little devil pulled her hay/grass down to snooze on it. I started her on the acidophilus caplets, and I'm hoping that will help her improve.

[Angelgal]

I have an update for you all...

Last night I decided to let her make it on her own through the night, just because she's been starting to eat and drink on her own, little by little, I really needed the sleep. I did the acidophilus capsule thing before sleeping, along with 20cc's of pellet mash.

I got up this morning and she looked really bright, her cage it right behind my bed so it takes little effort for me to check on her. She gave a big stretch and yawn before doing some jumps around her cage. I changed her water (no more Vit C drops!!) and gave her some fresh pellets and hay. Something in side told me not to do the pellet mash or water by hand - so I took my little pup for his morning walk.

When I got back I got myself something to eat and grabbed some veggies for her, because again, something told me today would be different. YES! I did my kissy noises and bit into one of the veggies and she ran to the cage squeaking. Not as much as she usually would, but we're getting there. She's currently munching on her veggies happily.

I'm still keeping an eye on her droppings, they were really soft yesterday so I want to keep a close eye on that. I'm hoping that it should improve soon. She's definatly getting back to her old self, bright, active and pushy!

[Angelgal]

I wanted to post another update. It hasn't been looking so good.

I'm really in a sticky situation with her, and I'm not sure what to do. In a month I leave for college, and because I'm in residence I'm not allowed to take her with me but my parents don't know how, or have the time (their always working) to properly care for a sick cavy.


Angel is eating very very little on her own. She'll nibble on things and then leave them. I don't even know if she's drinking on her own. This has been going on almost 2 months now, and I'm emotionally, physically and financially drained. It just seems as if she's given up, but I'm still fighting for her.

She's getting 60-80g of her pellets (in a pellet mash) as often as I can give it in a day. Usually 4-6 times a day depending on if I'm working or not. She gets 100ml or more of water in a day, all hand fed. I'm still giving her the capulets and the nutritional supplement the vet supplied me with.

I'm going to get her back into the vet so we can discuss options on what to do next. Her symptoms have gotten somewhat worse, the crusty eye is back and she's sneezing more often. So far, no nasal dischage. She has lost weight, I can see it just looking at her. I upped the amount of food she was getting, just to make up for that (I can feel her spine, hips etc! and I feel like such a terrible mommy!). There are little droppings in her cage, but the ones that are there at least its no longer soft/runny, although her behind area is crusty and icky. I'm going to wash that area in a few, try to clean her up a bit.

I have to talk with my mom about it tonight, I'm not legally an adult and I don't get paid for another few days so I'm going to see if she can pay upfront and I pay her back when I get it. The vet will not do a payment plan... so its a sticky situation.

I don't know how much more a vet can do for her. She's even starting to refuse hand feeding (before she would take it no problems). More antibiotics are only going to put her off her food even more, since even the safe ones do have that side effect. I can't afford for her to loose any more weight, she already looks like skin and bones (will get updated weight tonight).
When I take her into the vet I'm going to ask about other forms of treatment (other then your regular antibitocs). So things like; bronchodilators, diuretics, Oxygen therapy kinda thing, that was used on me when I had pneumonia.

I know how my baby girl is feeling. I've been there, I've once had a severe case of pneumonia. The vet says her's is mild, but I'm questioning that. I was the exact way she is now, she hardly moves to greet me at the cage.

IF there is nothing more the vets can do for her, I'm willing to try any form of treatment. If she doesn't improve by the time I have to leave (august 31) then I'm going to consider two possibilties... because I cannot leave her back home with no proper care/educated people.
1. See if the school will take her as a patient, meaning she stays in the Vet Tech wing and continue her treatment using that vet, the VT's and vet assistant's at the school. I can monitor her very closely, and be with her often. I know what's safe and what's not for the cavy's and if she does improve, then I can send her back home under very strict instructions.

2. IF and only if nothing else will work out, I'm going to consider putting her to sleep. It tears me up inside to even think about it, and of course brings me to tears... but I have to think about what's best for her. If she's really not improving after all I can give, I really can't let her suffer.

I feel like a horrible owner for the options I've considered, and for letting her get this sick in the first place. If I had kept a closer eye on her, I could have spotted it sooner...

[PiggieMamaKelly]

I'm so sorry she is doing so poorly still. It sounds like it's been really tough on you.

You might want to reconsider your decision not to try another antibiotic. Not all ABs have a negative effect on appetite. I had a pig who was resistant (or her infection was) to an AB once so she continued to get worse despite a two-week course. Once the vet figured it out, she prescribed a new med and the pig was fine in no time.

Is the vet sure there is nothing more going on here besides an infection?

Best of luck to you both.

[Angelgal]

We finally have some news.

I took her into the vet yesterday morning (July 15), well, first she went to see the groomer because I had to drop my puppy in for his appointment. Then it was off to the animal hospital.

They took her in again as an emergancy case, however since the Dr was doing a spay, it would be some time before he could look at her. So they administered her and put her in a quiet room. I told them all my concerns, and everything I could think of. I told them she hadn't been drinking on her own, but had been nibbling things (she would willingly eat lettuc). Listed all her symptoms: slight wheezing, sneezing, weight loss and how much lost, lack of appetite, very slight nasal discharge as well as some new ones that had appeared: hunched up position, squeaking during urination, crusty butt area...

I asked them to check her teeth (specifically molars), to give her a thorough examination and to be sure to listen to her lungs. I also mentioned that I would like to know about other options for treating the pneumonia (other AB, bronchodilators, oxygen etc) as long as it means my little girl gets better.

Well, they kept her for the day. They had told me to call around 11:30 and when I did, they asked me to call back around 2:30. This had me worried! They wouldn't tell me anything and I HATED that so much. I don't really like how they do things in there, like I can't go back with her during the examination and the fact they won't tell me whats going on, but its the only "exotic" vet in the area, so do I have much of a choice??

I called back at 2:30 and they told me they had to talk to the vet, and would call me back. Well 3pm starts rolling around, I have to get going for work, and still no news on my guinea pig! So I actually go there... I find out that they had found blood in her urine, and diagnosed her with a bladder infection and gave her AB. I'll go get the name of it in a minute. Well ... I use the Kaytee Soft bedding, and I havn't found ANY blood in her bedding, unless its being absorbed by the bedding. I did look in and notice this morning some urine spots looked odd then a couple others, so I'm guessing yes it was absorbed and thats why I didn't notice?? The vet was on the phone, so the lady at the front desk (a VT) was giving me information, I was hurrying to try not to be late for work - they didn't mention anything about her teeth, or the pneumonia (sp?) ... so I'm guessing that's an "all clear" sign.

Well. She seemed much perkier when I brought her home, she's a very hyper and talkative little thing. She is eating more, but I still have to hand feed her water. I have it calculated out. So, because I worked the night, today AND tomorrow .... I asked my dad to do her AB and Probiotics. I'm staying two steps ahead of this couse of antibiotics lol! Depending on how her appetite goes will depend if I put her back on a pellet mash. She still has some slight wheezing (when she gets real worked up) and sneezing.

When her course of antibiotics are through, I'm going to book her an appointment for a general check-up. Just to make sure she's 100% healthy!

Now, I have some questions.
I read online that crandberry juice (diluted 50/50 with water) can help with UTI's? ... I know this is so in humans, I'm still half alseep so I do not remember the details but I will find the link. I'm skeptical about if it is okay for cavy's as well??

Do you think the vet diagnosed wrong? or that my cavy had both?? Or AB's from treating the URI caused the bladder infection??