Advice Needed

[PiggieMamaKelly]

Sounds very plausible that she could have both types of infection. UTIs don't cause sneezing or eye/nose discharge. Often when there is blood in the urine it isn't visible to the naked eye and only shows up under microscope or with a chemical test- so that could explain why you didn't see anything.

Hopefully the AB will get both infections. What's the name of it?

Good to hear she is eating more on her own. Please keep us updated! I've been following your thread and am really rooting for you both!!

ETA- I wouldn't bother with the cranberry juice. The AB should do the trick. It is safe if it is 100% juice with no sugar added, but in my opinion it's unecessary.

[Angelgal]

I currently feel so irrisonsible!! UGHHH

The AB was Clindamycin hydo something or other. Oh my god I just want to smack myself right now. When I picked her up from the vet I was hurrying so I wouldn't be too late for work, which would look very very bad considering I just started there. I had looked at it briefly but didn't see the "Clindamycin" ... it was in such tiny print. All I saw was the brand name or whatever and just assumed this vet, being an exotic wouldn't perscribe her something that would potentially kill her. Wrong! ... my dad gave her one dose already while I was at work.

"Lincosamides are considered to be contraindicated for use in guinea pigs due to serious gastrointestinal effects, often followed by death. Clindamycin, a semisynthetic derivative of lincomycin, is a common lincosamide used in small animal practice (Plumb, 1999). In a 1980 study, cecal filtrated from guinea pigs inoculated with clindamycin contained Clostridium sordellii toxin or an antigenically related toxin which was lethal to guinea pigs when injected intraperitoneally (Rehg, 1980). In some cases gentamicin may counteract lincomycin-associated enterotoxemia (Harkness and Wagner, 1995)." a referance from the site I use to determine safe/non safe AB's ... Antiobiotc Use in Guinea Pigs

I came home late and already saw a very big, very bad change in her behavior. She did not greet me at the cage as she had been. She did not touch any of her food, and she is not drinking and has since been no improvement. She went downhill very fast and I am very scared right now that I am going to loose my pig, and it would be all my fault for not being more careful.

Of course, she is NOT getting anymore of that antibiotic. After over $200 in vet visits I do not want her dead!! I have lost all respect for this vet, the first time he handed me a toxic AB as well (Cefadroxil but I pointed out it was unsafe and asked for Enrofloxacin but she went downhill with that anyway), last time I was more aware (not rushing to get to work) and asked for a safe AB. Now I'm going back to pay them another little visit because I don't appreciate the perscription of toxic AB's ... they are suppost to be exotic vets and have claimed to have treated cavies before but I'm kind of wondering on that. I'm starting to think otherwise.

I'm going to try to get her an appointment at another exotic vet which I KNOW treats cavies because I use an article on their website for a referance to safe and toxic AB's ... their not local, but I work in that same town (about a half hour drive each way) so I think I could do it. Maybe take her in for a day I have to work, I want to be with ehr when she's examined but it may not work out in my favor that way... I tried to get her in there before but they took too long to call me back. I can stop in there in person tomorrow either before or after work to make the appointment. This is their webpage, do you guys think their cavy savvy?? Trenton Pet Hospital
I don't care how many vets I have to see, but I want this done right. I've lost all respect for the local vet... nice guy, but I'm trying to save my pig, not kill her (I personally think he doesn't know better).

So, I'm going to take another visit back to this local vet and have a polite chat with them. See if they can give me something that's actually safe for her like Bactrim (trimethoprim sulfa; SMZ-TMP; sulfamethoxazole trimethoprim; Tribrissen, Septra). UGH I cannot believe I was so careless.

In the mean time, we're doing the cranberry juice (100% juice, no sugar).
60-100ml water per day, 60-80g of pellet mash per day, and being supplemented excessivly with acidophilus caplets (added to the water). Although I've run out of Vit C, I'm picking up more tablets tonight.

Though , I've got a question ... I have used natural/herbal remedies on horses and on my dog. If I did some research, what is the forms opinions on using a herbal/holistic approach to treating a UTI in a guinea pig?
Now of course, I would go through and thoroughly make sure its not a dangerous plant to guinea pigs but what would your opinions be on this??
I'm not having much luck with vets and perscribed AB's ... there is a cat/dog vet who just opened a practise who uses natural remedies who may be able to help steer me in the right direction, her husband is my equine vet (how I've gotten proper use for natural remedies in horses).
I'm going to do some research on this and see what I find...

Also, what can I do for my piggy because she has gotten a small dose of the toxic AB? well, other then stopping it and supplementing excessivly??

Please keep her in your thoughts... I can't believe I let this happen.

[camende]

I would not use any of the herbal/natural remedies mainly because I would be too worried that they contained something more harmful. I am rooting for you and your piggie. I would bring her to the new vet ASAP. I would also bring a list of the "safe antibiotics" with you. Ask ALOT of questions so you know that the vet knows about guinea pigs.

I hope your piggie recovers. It sounds like you have been fighting hard for her. Please keep us updated.

[Angelgal]

I did a bit of research on it, and the things I keep finding I know are harmful to guinea pigs (I've really studied harmful plants because turns out my front yeard is full of them). The only one I can find, that I have read about used in GP's would be the cranberry juice and that one I also use for myself.

I'm going to try to get her into this other vet as soon as I can. Until then she's under 24/7 close watch and careful feeding and excessive supplement.
I'll keep the updates coming!

I really appreciate the help and support, I get nothing from friends/family on this end of the computer because to them she's just a $20 guinea pig that isn't worth the money in vet bills. My mother and I had quite a few arguments over that one. Thanks guys!

[Angelgal]

*Reads through papered instructions in the Antirobe (Clindamycin hydrochloride) box*

Ahem ... Do vets really learn anything in Vet school? Really, do they??
Under Cautions, number 3

"Because of potential adverse gastrointestional effects, do NOT administer to rabbits, hamsters, guinea pigs, horses, chinchilla's or ruminating animals."

I mean come on. This is an antibiotic commonly used for dogs and cats, you'd think vets would be educated about the cautions correct? What the heck are they learning in vet school?

Oh they'll be getting a very lovely (not so happy owner) visit from me tomorrow morning, fallowed by antibiotics in hand, with that section highlighted as well as articles printed online about what IS and ISN'T safe for guinea pigs.
I'm also going to be asking for Bactrim and if they do not want to give it to me I will be going else where to get it. I don't care if I have to go to your average cat/dog vet ... I have the diagnosis, her weight and the known antibiotic I need to treat her UTI (bladder infection). I am so upset about this vet, I mean I would rather hear from a vet "I have never treated a guinea pig before" and possibly be referred to another exotic then have them perscribe me something that could be fatal to my baby. You know? What has this world come to...

This has not been a good experience for me, but I have also come out a lot more educated then I went in.

[PrayerWarrior]

You and your baby Angel are in my thoughts. I am so glad you've chosen to educate yourself so well, and realized almost instantly that the drug prescribed would have been fatal.

Keep us updated.

[PiggieMamaKelly]

Geez unbelievable! It's pretty bad when it even says it on the box! I would be on their doorstep first thing in the AM requesting a safe AB and informing them they will no longer receive my business. Good thing you are so watchful!

[Haley0489]

Argh that's awful! :(

[Ly&Pigs]

I'd take the medication back to the vet and make him/her give you your money back.

There are no herbal/natural remedies that will cure either a URI or UTI in guinea pigs. Need AB's. Cranberry juice can help flush the kidneys though.

[Angelgal]

As soon as I get the car (within the next hour) I'm making a visit to this animal hospital. We'll see if they'll swap antibiotics.

I've been getting fluids into her, as well as the supplementing, a pellet mash and blended apple/carrots/Vit C. She's looking a little better this morning. I could hear her moving around her cage this morning, and after coming back form my shower she greeted me (run to the cage and squeak). She had eatten the small bit of lettuce I left in her cage last night, and I added some more fresh veggies this morning. She won't touch any hay, she ends up using it as a bed and soiling it. So I've only put very little amounts in at a time. She also has a small dish of diluted cranberry juice, it probably won't clear the infection itself but it may help.

She will NOT be going back to this vet ever. She is still wheezing and sneezing a tad so I'm going to try to locate a reliable, cavy savvy vet to look at her for that. My guess is that infection was never 100% cleared up. I don't care how far I have to go.

So now I'm locating some good cavy savvy vets. There is one a city over but last time they did not return my call very fast. Does anyone know of very good cavy vets in Kingston, Ontario??

Its about an hour off, but I can get there since close family live there and I will be in college there in the fall. I have to go up soon to drop documents off.

[Angelgal]

Originally Posted by Angelgal

As soon as I get the car (within the next hour) I'm making a visit to this animal hospital. We'll see if they'll swap antibiotics.

I've been getting fluids into her, as well as the supplementing, a pellet mash and blended apple/carrots/Vit C. She's looking a little better this morning. I could hear her moving around her cage this morning, and after coming back form my shower she greeted me (run to the cage and squeak). She had eatten the small bit of lettuce I left in her cage last night, and I added some more fresh veggies this morning. She won't touch any hay, she ends up using it as a bed and soiling it. So I've only put very little amounts in at a time. She also has a small dish of diluted cranberry juice, it probably won't clear the infection itself but it may help.

She will NOT be going back to this vet ever. She is still wheezing and sneezing a tad so I'm going to try to locate a reliable, cavy savvy vet to look at her for that. My guess is that infection was never 100% cleared up. I don't care how far I have to go.

So now I'm locating some good cavy savvy vets. There is one a city over but last time they did not return my call very fast. Does anyone know of very good cavy vets in Kingston, Ontario??

Its about an hour off, but I can get there since close family live there and I will be in college there in the fall. I have to go up soon to drop documents off.

Since it won't let me edit that post .... This is how it went down.

I just got back from the vet's office. The very nice VT was at the desk, so I explained that my guinea pig Angel had been in on the 15th and diagnosed with a bladder infection and had recieved 2 doses of the clindamycin and has since gone downhill (not eating, unresponsive to surroundings and diarrhea). Then I added I had done some reserch, and read the information sheet with the AB and all the sources came to the same conclusion of its dangerous and should not be administered to guinea pigs and a variety of other species. Then I showed her the highlighted section of that information sheet (I highlighted it so I could find it again).

She told me that yes they had seen that, but when they looked in "their book" it said otherwise and was safe to administer to guinea pigs. I had a look of "Yeah right..." on my face and asked if she could be switched to a different antibiotic, preferably Bactrim. Then she went to get the vet for me to have a little chat with....

So in one of the examiniation rooms, about 10 minutes later walks in this really older looking gentlemen. Now I've been to many animal hospitals and I have never seen a veterinarian dress so ... casually. Anyway, we had a little discussion and he went on to say that clindamycin was one of the most safest recommended antibiotics for guinea pigs, and I should try giving it to her with a couple drops of yogurt. Though if I wanted to they could switch her to another antibiotic but he didn't recommend it seeing as there are so many safe ones out there for them, and that she was probably just very sensitive to the clindamycin. [Okay at this point I'm thinking ... yeah right bud, about 15 sources online, from Veterinary clinics with dozens of referances AND THE INFORMATION SHEET IN THE BOX - ALL say otherwise].

I kept calm, and polite. I just said "I would feel more comfortable switching her to a different antibiotic, like Bactrim." He then asked me if she had ever had Bactrim before, and I replied, "No, she's never been sick a day in her life until recently. However I've been told its quite safe for guinea pigs by others I know who have used it." SOOOO .... their ordering some in for me. The Vet said it wouldn't be in until Tuesday, the Vet Tech said tomorrow. Hm. Not sure who to believe but I'll call tomorrow just incase... I want to get her on this ASAP. He did say he could give me a perscription to go get some myself, but yeah ... I really know how to properly dose a guinea pig, though I'm not so sure he does either.

I sure hope I do not have to pay for this tomorrow, and it can just be a swap. If I have to then fine, just because to get it anywhere else I'm going to have to pay anyway. Though I am NOT going to be happy, and they will not be getting any further visits from me, and I will not be recommending them to anyone either.

Now I did put in a resume and cover letter to this veterinary clinic a while back to volunteer and learn under before I go to school for a Veterinary Technician ... yeaaah sooo not going to happen. If I'm going to study under anyone, I think I'll go talk to my equine vet.

I am exhausted, and very upset. I feel like I've been going around in circles. I also feel as if I am out $200 at this point, its how much I've put into vet bills so far and they all turn out to be ... well I don't think its appropriate to say on this forum but I am very unhappy about the service I end up getting.
I will be very happy when I can finally call my baby healthy.
I am going to stop into the exotic animal hospital in the town over (I work in that area) and see about doing some weekend voluenteer hours in with them. They have information on their site about spay/neutering and AB use in guinea pigs listed on their website, and they seem pretty knowledgable as far as I can tell from their website Trenton Pet Hospital

I appreciate everyone's support and advice through this whole situation.
I'm determined to get her better, she was there for me when I was very ill (always laid with me, licked my nose and was great company, gave me something to fight for) and I'm going to do the same thing for her, no matter how much it costs me.

[camende]

Can't they just call the Bactim into a pharmacy?...ANY pharmacy is going to have Bactrim. You should not wait. I would call them back and have them call the prescription into a pharmacy. Then you can start your girl on it today!!!

Have them also call in a couple 1cc syringes so you can dose her. (you just pop the needle off...it's really easy...the pharmacist could even do it for you if the needle makes you nervous.

[gooberific]

The fact that they told you to dose it with a couple drops of yogurt... Hello, lactose intolerant! I don't have info on vets in your area, but I would definitely seek out someone better.

[Angelgal]

Oh I don't plan to take her back there ever.
I'm getting the Bactrim from them tomorrow morning and that's that. I will never step foot into that office again. The Vet Tech is amazingly friendly and supportive, but the vets are just idiots.

I would call them back, but I'm just so tired of dealing with them. I feel like I could loose it at any second and it'd be better for me to just walk away, cool down and wait until tomorrow. If I feel calm enough I'll do it in a little bit.
I know I should start her today, or at least the sooner the better (they tell me I have to wait until Tuesday I'll flip my lid).

I do have good news though. Guess what I woke up to the sound of?? Angel drinking from her water bottle! She's currently going back and forth between her pellets and her water. She's quite attentive, everytime I walk into the room she's there greeting me with happy sqeaks. I think its safe to say I don't have to syringe feed her about 100ml water/day! ... I'll still do the cranberry juice solution, and Vit C fed and some pellet mash by syringe but I definatly think she's on the mend. She seems to have really boucned back from the dose she got of that AB, which I'm very happy about.

I'm going to book her an app. with a different vet to get her a general check up, and to specifically have her teeth looked at. The reason being she's excited about her hay, but she's not really eating it, she's dropping pellets and I hear a odd grinding noise when she eats certain foods ... something I've never heard before in the 4 years of owning her. I think there is a molar problem.

[camende]

I'm so glad she is giving you happy wheeks and is drinking water! I hope your Angel is on the mend.

You should keep weighing her everyday and watch the water level to make sure she is drinking enough.