Trip to the vet = Traumatized pig

[PigPal123]

Sparky had his first vet visit two and a half weeks ago and a subsequent visit three days ago for mites. Ever since the visits, he's been absolutely traumatized. The vet was very nice and gentle, but the shots scared him and now he doesn't want to be held and squeals loudly when he's being picked up. He still likes to play and likes to talk to me, but I feel like I may be starting from day one with bonding. Even with the mites, he was more affectionate. Any thoughts?

[Jane_G]

The shot sites could be still bothering him. I know that when my kids got shots as babies, they always were sore for a few days.

Try and be patient. He will come around again.

[Cosmictadpole]

I have noticed this as well. My Freddie is much less social with me since he got neutered 2.5 weeks ago. I feel like I'm starting over with him too. My feeling is that his trust was hurt when I took him somewhere that caused him pain. I'm really hoping he comes back around. I'm crossing my fingers that your pig will get over it soon!

[Malimo8]

Originally Posted by Cosmictadpole

I have noticed this as well. My Freddie is much less social with me since he got neutered 2.5 weeks ago. I feel like I'm starting over with him too. My feeling is that his trust was hurt when I took him somewhere that caused him pain. I'm really hoping he comes back around. I'm crossing my fingers that your pig will get over it soon!

Well, you did take his manhood from him. It's one of the things that makes the male pigs who they are. The same would count for a human. Sparky should reattach very soonly, I've just had a pig treated for an abscess under her chin, she had stitches and had to be isolated for a week. It was only a few days back in with the 3 other girls and she seems perkier than ever, even though she's still the little runt of them all.

[Cosmictadpole]

That's interesting, because one point that the neutering information on this site and Guinea Lynx makes very clear is that neutering will not change the personality of your guinea pig.

[aqh88]

The shots are unnecessary. Ivermectin can be applied topically or given orally with a lot less stress. Just a couple drops behind the ear and your done. Pigs will often be less active or friendly for a couple weeks after they are taken anywhere. Even if it wasn't some place stressful. They don't travel well and don't like new surroundings.

Neutering an animal is different from the surgeries they normally do on humans with an entirely different impact emotionally. While in some ways it is comparable. Spaying or neutering a very young animal to me is the same as doing it to a young child. They don't mature the same and are stunted emotionally and physically. It would be obviously wrong if someone suggested doing such a thing to a human of similar age level to the animals we frequently neuter. But neutering an adult guinea pig really has no comparison to a human.

[Cosmictadpole]

That is news to me! It is a very common practice to spay and neuter puppies and kittens before they are fully grown. I have never read or heard before (including the information on this site and Guinea Lynx, which seem to be the most reliable sources I can find for guinea pigs) that neutering a pet will cause it to mature differently or be emotionally or physically stunted.

[gpigluver14]

Pigs will often be less active or friendly for a couple weeks after they are taken anywhere. Even if it wasn't some place stressful. They don't travel well and don't like new surroundings.

Hm.?.. Then I guess my pig's unique. Before I started cutting her nails myself I would take her to a pet store for trims, and even after a trip to the vet for a check up, she was unaffected- totally fine when she was back home in her cage.

But I'm sure it won't be long until your pig bounces back and loves you again. Perhaps you could give him lap time for at least a few minutes every day or so to build up trust again.

[Ziggy&Herald]

Originally Posted by Cosmictadpole

That is news to me! It is a very common practice to spay and neuter puppies and kittens before they are fully grown. I have never read or heard before (including the information on this site and Guinea Lynx, which seem to be the most reliable sources I can find for guinea pigs) that neutering a pet will cause it to mature differently or be emotionally or physically stunted.

There have been studies on this because some people believe that it's true, however the studies have proved that their are insignificant differences in animals spayed a 7 weeks rather than 7 months. I believe whole heartedly in early spay/ neuter programs. If this was the rule instead of exception, their would be many accidental pregnancies avoided, especially in cats.

[Char-x]

My piggies dont change much at all, Hoover gets stressed at the vets - his hair has fallen out before he was so stressed out but once home he is fine again. They have had Ivermectin shots before too and again all fine when we got home.

Same with when I used to take them to get their nails done etc

[aqh88]

The studies done on early spay neuter are frequently not brought to light because of the importance of this practice in the US. However many large organizations that train service animals and military dogs will not neuter before 8 months because of studies that showed increased agression, less emotional stabililty, and fewer early neutered animals passing their courses compared to those neutered after 8-10months. That doesn't mean I don't think shelters should do early spay neuter. People simply aren't responsible or trustworthy enough to have unneutered animals. It does mean there is enough info out there for me to want to wait if possible and since I was 100% confident I could keep my dog away from males I spayed her at 10months after 2 heat cycles. In a better world this would be worth debating and doing more studies but as things stand early spay neuter is a requirement to keep the pet population down so it's actually not hardly worth bringing up.

My pigs would go into hiding for 2-3weeks just for taking them to my mom's house and back where nothing stressful happened. I've had several neutered and they all act a bit out of it for a few days and then some were slightly skittish for a week or 2 before being completely normal. Pistachio was neutered probably a year ago and he's the friendliest and most outgoing of the pigs. He always comes running up to the edge of the cage. Licorice never really acted any different. He spent a couple days not as active from the pain killers but then was back to shaking the cage bars for attention. The surgery itself doesn't change their personality but some need time to chill after being taken to a strange place where strange things happen. The pain killers can also sedate them a bit making them seem less friendly and outgoing. Once you stop the pain killers they go back to their normal selves.

[Weatherlight]

I've only seen the actual studies by Winn Feline Foundation and Cornell. What are these other studies, and where can I read the results?

I would definitely spay female cats and dogs before the first heat. Ideally after 3 months, to give more time for development, but that's sufficient to lower the risk of urinary incontinence in old age. I don't know how accurate the 0.5 - 1%, 8%, and 26% figures are, but I do believe there is some truth to them.

Physical "stunting" is weird. The main effect is closure of the joint plates, iirc. This results in slightly longer legs. I suppose this could be a concern if you're doing lots of certain hard physical exertion daily in certain environments, but it's not a concern for most "pets." S/N at 7 months, some plates already have closed, and at least one person out there is worried about this causing uneven proportions of bone lengths. Then you can wait 14 - 24 months, depending on breed and individual.

Some people are in favor of vasectomies and tubals for cats and dogs. Others are in favor of only spaying in the case of pyo or the like, and using management (as aqh88 did), but I agree, that won't happen so long as pets are treated the way they are now. People would think chainlink is secure enough, hah. And have no idea how to take their dog out on leash.

Sometimes my girls explore cautiously when brought back to their room. Even after being in the bedroom while their room is cleaned. Mostly they don't seem to have a problem. I'm lucky they have such good bounceback.

One problem I did encounter when trying to clicker train was separating them. They wouldn't be interested in food. Instead of letting them get used to a training area, I got lazy and gave up, especially with the cats around. Now that I can use the bedroom, though, I have fewer excuses :) It really does make a difference.

It's not just about training cues, but the confidence, selfefficacy, problem-solving, which contributes to more defense against trauma and better bounceback. They're not so passive any more. They learn they can influence the world and what happens to them. That's a very powerful feeling for those who are used to being powerless and helpless. I haven't taught anything "useful" to one of my cats other than target training; the rest was for fun and to encourage her to be more playful, secure, and creative. She's usually very shy, anxious, easily startled, and slow to recover from stress. I'd never seen an animal tremble so much at the vet's. It really detracts from her quality of life.

[Ziggy&Herald]

You also knock out the chance of mammary cancer 100% if you spay before the first heat. With every heat they are allowed to got through it increases the chances that much more, even if they do get spayed later in life. I think that matters more to me rather than her being "leggy".

[VoodooJoint]

I'm seeing a lot of poor/wrong/questionable advice, "facts" and speculation in this thread and I'm not liking it.

No matter what side of the issue you are on I would like to see links or credits to sites, books, or published papers/reports so you can site where your information comes from so it can be further studied.

From now on, if you don't have the scientific research to back up your statement, then don't post with spay/neuter advice/facts and stick to the original topic.

[Ziggy&Herald]

quote]Later we found that if the female dog was spayed before she had a litter, the incidence of mammary tumors was reduced to zero and the recommendation was modified to, "spay her just before her first heat". [/quote]

This was found from this site Early Spay/neuter not to mention the advice given per the vet I work for.It is the last I will say on the subject as I do not want to be reprimanded, I did just want to give the link so others can read. Sorry for getting off topic.

[Weatherlight]

Same. Links:

Spay and Neuter for Cats: Winn Feline Foundation

Early (Pediatric) Spay/Neuter

And it's 0.5 or 1%, not 0%, I believe. A dog spayed before first heat can still get mammary cancer, it's just a lot more rare.