Rosie: A Heart Pig

[thalestral]

I really wanted to write about this to encourage anyone who suspects they may have a heart pig to get them checked out as soon as possible and DO NOT let them be sedated for x-rays or any other situation where treatment can be carried out while the pig is awake.

Rosie came down with symptoms that led us to believe she may have ovarian cysts. As things progressed though it became clear that Rosie was a heart pig and that even if there were other problems this had to be addressed first. Luckily Rosie is now okay, but only after an emergency visit finally got her the drugs she needed. If you suspect your pig may have heart troubles I urge you to get them checked out as soon as possible and that if they need medication to get them on it as soon as possible if not sooner. Heart conditions are simply something that cannot wait!

Our journey started back in June when Rosie had been in a constant state of rumbling and sexual aggression for over a week, far longer than a normal heat period would last. Under closer supervision we also saw that she was being incredibly grumpy and snappy with the other girls, something that was completely out of character. She had also lost just under 2oz which is enough for concern, but especially for Rosie who had last lost weight way back in February.

We immediately suspected a hormonal problem, most likely ovarian cysts and booked her in for an ultrasound and x-ray. Both came back clear. By this time I'd realised that Rosie was a hooting pig. Hooting is a noise that is made by heart pigs and there are a few threads and videos about it here and on Guinea Lynx. Other symptoms began to fall in to place.

Heart Pig Symptoms:
Early signs may be loss of energy, a tendency to move less.
May produce a "hooting" sound .
Reduced activity, lethargy.
Loss of appetite and weight loss.

Because of this we asked the vet to take a close look at her heart and lungs during x-ray as well. While waiting for our appointment Rosie had now lost 3oz in just 15 days. We started hand feeding Critical Care to our little girl. I was also advised on Guinea Lynx not to let them sedate Rosie for her x-rays. When we went in to get them done I asked the vet to do this and she said she would refrain if possible but it was difficult to x-ray without it.

We picked Rosie up at the end of the day. The vet talked us through the x-ray and ultrasound results which had shown up no cysts, and no heart abnormalities. She looked in perfect health. We were prescribed Baytril and Metacam to see if that helped any. The vet had taken a blood sample which could be sent off for analysis if we so wished, which of course we did!

Rosie had been sedated for her x-ray and this is when we knew for sure she was a heart pig. We picked her up at 6:30pm when she was judged awake enough to go home. This means the sedation had begun to wear off sometime before. By 9:30pm she was still unable to move at all. She refused hay and vegetables and relied more than ever on the Critical Care which was now up to the full dosing and we had to start syringe feeding her water as well as she wasn't drinking by herself.

Heart Pig Symptoms:
Difficulty coming around after being put under anesthesia
Deep sleeping, easy to pick up (does not run away)

It took her two days to start moving around by herself. By this stage she was living separated from the other girls as they were upsetting her. This is when we realised that her earlier rumbling was due to the other girls being aware she was ill and constantly challenging her authority. Her grumpiness too had simply been down to her feeling so unwell. Rosie was now spending a good amount of her time out of the cage on our laps wrapped up nice and cosy, not only for feedings but because it seemed to cheer her up to have the company. We also gave her Infacol to see if she had gassy trouble and it did seem to help a little.

After four days she started to drink from her water bottle a bit, which was a great relief. We added vegetable mash to her Critical Care to make it nicer and she started nibbling her hay. Her interest in all food though was minimal and her pellets remained untouched. She was still on the full round the clock Critical Care feedings.

After a week we tried skipping the two night time feedings one night to see if it would encourage her to begin eating by herself but her weight plummeted by an ounce. By now her main symptoms were extreme lack of energy and lack of appetite. We tried to introduce her with our most laid back sow Frisky but while she managed a few rumbles she soon flopped on her side distressed.

The blood tests came back and showed no abnormalities. From here on out our vet repeatedly suggested that Rosie was overweight and that we should be reducing pellets - never mind the fact that we were having to hand feed to prevent rapid weight loss!

We now knew enough that we wanted to try heart medication. Our vet initially agreed to look into this, to contact specialists at the Edinburgh Veterinary College. From this point on the legwork was all down to us and the helpful people at Guinea Lynx. We found out the UK versions of Lotensin and Lasix - Fortekor and Furosemide. The former is to treat the heart condition, the latter to reduce fluid around the heart and lungs which at this point we didn't think we needed given the x-ray results. We kept pressing our vet and she kept telling us that she was waiting to hear back, and in the meantime we should be trying to get Rosie to lose weight. Which I strongly disagreed with given her condition.

Through the great help of webs at Guinea Lynx and Wendi at Thistle Cavies we got the name and number of a UK vet who had treated heart pigs. At this point the stress and worry was overwhelming and I was incredibly grateful to these wonderful ladies! Alas, the heart pig vet was away on holiday and our vet still put us off treatment. On top of this Rosie dropped another 2 ounces and still our vet said she was overweight! In fact Jon read the computer screen when she was out of the room to find Rosie had written on her file "very overweight". Now I was getting mad. I decided if we didn't get treatment we would look for a new vet the next week.

On the 20th of July at night Rosie was struggling to breathe. Her lungs were crackling so loudly you could hear them outside the room. We rushed her to see the emergency vet where she was diagnosed with fluid in the lungs and a heart murmur. This vet listened to all we had to say, looked at the bit of paper where I'd hurriedly scribbled down the names of the two heart meds and their doses as recommended by Guinea Lynx and immediately got them for us and converted the dosages where needed. I was so relieved I would have cried were it not for the worry for Rosie and the complete ANGER at both the vet who had put off this treatment and myself for not pushing harder.

Back home it took just twenty minutes for the Furosemide to clear up her breathing. The day after that night and her first dose of Fortekor she greeted us with zoomies around her pen! She was so much happier and within a week we could really see the difference. Within two weeks she was back in with the rest of the herd, popcorning and wheeking away at the top of her lungs. She reasserted herself as the dominant sow and is now the first out for floor time, charging through to the kitchen to demand veggies straight away. Seeing this amazing difference made us realise just how long things had been wrong - it had been many months since Rosie had energy like this. She is also much happier at her new slimline weight even though she's still a big girl. Her weight gain in the last few months had obviously been the result of her decreasing energy levels as her heart issues got worse. Oh, and her heart murmur is now much less than it was before :) And her fur is now a permanent dark shade, a sign of a healthy piggie.

We put the earliest symptoms down to Rosie being a heavier pig which can itself be a symptom of a heart problem, being lazy when in fact she simply didn't have the energy to do what she wanted, and being a bit of a grump when really she was only grumpy due to the lack of energy and a general feeling of unwellness.

As I type Rosie is shouting at me for her vegetables :) She is still rumbling a bit too much now that she's better but even if we do need to treat something else I can do it safe in the knowledge that her heart issues are already addressed so we can safely proceed with any other treatment.

And now I can sleep at night!

Rosie's Guinea Lynx medical thread: Guinea Lynx :: Topic - Rosie is Limping
Guinea Lynx Heart page: Guinea Lynx :: Heart

[JarBax]

Thankyou so much for this thread!

I am SO pleased and relieved to hear that things have finally been sorted out with Rosie. I remember right back at the start when she wasn't well, it has been such a long worrying time, the relief must be enormous! I have been thinking of her lots - as you know, Mary has been showing symptoms around the same time. This is such a brilliant and 'heart-warming' outcome for all involved with Rosie!

Thankyou too for all the heart pig information - it is absolutely invaluable information, which will I'm sure be appreciated by a lot of folk here - not least myself.

Fantastic too to see more pics of Rosie, with her new look! She is a very special pig, with a great owner! I appreciate how difficult it is to say to a vet that actually what they are telling you is wrong - and you know better. You have done your best for Rosie, and it really has paid off! Have a congratualtory hug from me! :hug:

[clotho]

Wow thank you SO much for all that info! I'm sure it will help many others who are experiencing similiar symptoms but don't realize it might be heart problems. I'm so sorry you had to go through such a long, tough time to get Rosie the treatment she needed, but you never gave up!! You got her what she needed, and now I'm so glad she is doing well!! Way to go! Rosie is very lucky to have you! I appreciate having the info so I will know what to look for in my own piggies too. Thank you again for sharing your story!

[jilovecavies]

Thank you for your story, thalestral, and for all the information. This can save piggies' lives! I'm so happy Rosie is doing well. She is so beautiful with such a strong soul. :)

[thalestral]

Thanks guys! :) It's been a stressful time but the results are well worth it, she's still amazing us every day with her new adventures now she is testing out what she can do all over again. There were times when I couldn't see the end but hugging Rosie after her medicines times are the highlights of my day now.

If Rosie's story can help any other pigs out there then that would be fantastic, I'm sure she'd be chuffed :]

[Piggersrule]

That is what I went through with Pinkie. It wasn't until I found Pinkie gasping for air that she had a level 3-4 heart murmur with excessive fluid building in her heart cavity. Her lungs were clear but her heart wasn't. She was given Lasix and within about 20 minutes to a half hour she was feeling much better. Her breathing was back to almost normal. She has been off the Lasix now for about a month now. She has had no problems with her heart or breathing. It's like she never had the problem. She still has the murmur but no fluid has been in her heart cavity. I don't know what caused her to have the fluid build like that but she has been fine since off the Lasix. Originally, I was told that she would have to be on Lasix and other meds probably for the rest of her life. As of right now, she is doing great without it. Hopefully it will continue to stay that way.

I am so glad that Rosie is doing much better now and that she will continue to do so. If you can, keep us updated on her health.

[thalestral]

That's great news about Pinkie, it's very reassuring to know of a heart pig who is now managing fine without medication :)

It's amazing how fast the Lasix/Furosemide works, you can literally see it working. I'll be sure to keep everyone updated with Rosie's progress, as of her last vet visit her murmur is now down to level 0.5 but she still needs both medicines to maintain her energy levels. Our bank balances are happy to suffer for her happiness though! :)

[clotho]

thalestral: how expensive are the drugs Rosie is on, if you don't mind me asking?

Piggersrule: just curious - do you have Lasix at home just in case something did happen and you needed it - so you would have instant access to it for Pinkie?

[thalestral]

I think the Fortekor is just over £12 a packet with each packet lasting us 28 days. So £12 a month really.

With the Furosemide we bought a huge bottle of Frusol at our emergency vet appointment which is 150ml and cost somewhere over £60. Given she gets 0.25ml twice a day that should last us almost a year if she does need it continually. The vet thought we were mad that we wanted the whole bottle because of the price but given the scare we had I wanted to make sure we never ever ran out of it if we needed it.

[Piggersrule]

thalestral, the Furosemide is only good for 3 months, after that, you have to discard whats left and get a new bottle. On the warning label on my bottle reads, discard opened bottle after 90 days and protect from light and it does not need to be refridgerated. Pinkie started off with taking .4ml 2x a day for about a month. Than over the course another month, we decreased her dosage gradually until she was off of it completely. What level heart murmur does Rosie have? The bottle of Lasix I bought was $37 and I had to get the perscrption fill at a drug store. The vet office didn't have the Lasix in liquid form.

Clotho, I do still have Lasix left over that I am keeping on hand just in case. The bottle I have is nearly 3 months old now so I will have to get a fresh refill. Pinkie has a vet appointment next week for a check up on her heart murmur.

[John4216]

Good post. I lost our first pig due to a heart condition because the vet (who we no longer use) basically ignored my concerns about it being her heart and the need for lasix just in case and continued to treat her for URI. It was a horrible and painful lesson that I learned and I still blame myself for not going to a different vet. What was even worse was that we finally broke down and drove her an hour away to a specialist and as we took her out of the carrier and handed her to the Vet she died right then.

[thalestral]

It can be very difficult to tell the vet what to do when obviously they usually think they know best. I'm so sorry you lost your pig John :/

I'd forgotten the 3 month thing, I'll need to remember that when we go back for more. As it is it will probably be pretty empty by then as she was on a high dose for a good while to begin with - 0.75ml twice a day. Ah well, small price to pay to reduce my panic xD We have tried reducing it more and even having a break but the effect is immediate. She'll stay on it for another few weeks before we try another break I think.

Her heart murmur is now down to a 0.5 from a 1.0. I think although her symptoms had been ongoing for a while we still managed to catch it pretty early. I have no doubt that her sedation for her x-rays exacerbated her condition hugely.

[clotho]

John, I'm very sorry to hear about your piggie. Please don't blame yourself! I'm sure you did everything you could, and no one blames you for believing a vet - after all, they are supposed to be the experts right?!! That's why this forum is so great - we can all share information we learn as we go through different experiences with our piggies. Then others can learn from it and perhaps not make the same mistakes, or they know what to look for.

Piggersrule & thalestral thank you for the info on the meds and their cost/shelf life. Good things to know! Can you explain a bit more about the scale they rate heart murmurs on please? Obviously the lower the number the better right? But what is the highest (worst) number? How does that work? Thanks!

[thalestral]

The scale used for heart murmurs is 1-6 with 1 being a very faint murmur and 6 being a very loud one. I think that's a fairly standard thing, not just for animals but for humans too. The emergency vet used a digital stethoscope which is how he heard the level 1 murmur that had perhaps been missed before. Having said that though the vet at our last visit could hear the 0.5 level murmur better on the normal stethoscope so I think really a good vet should be able to hear them either way.

Rosie's x-rays showed no sign of an enlarged heart or excess fluid so I think it's important to realise that that in itself is no indication that there are no heart problems.

This site and Guinea Lynx are absolutely invaluable. Without them we wouldn't have known what to get Rosie at all and would have been completely flummoxed at her inability to breathe rather than knowing exactly what was happening. I only hope that more vets will appreciate good online resources like these in the interest of our pets health :/

[JarBax]

So a heart murmur can be picked up without an X-ray or ultrasound? That is good to know.

Hear hear re. vets using online resources. Whilst they are competent in dealing with many different animals coming in, cavy people (and any single breed enthusiast) have enormous experience with the one species, and are going to be more knowledgeable about the finer details.