Different Animals

[arionat799]

Now, before I start, let me state one thing.

I do not support breeding at all! I know that this is an anti-breeding forum, and I am not a breeder nor will I ever be.

However, because I know that this is an anti-guinea pig breeding forum, I have a quick question.

Is this forum against all types of breeding? Such as dogs, cats, etc.? I don't have a stand point on it, I mean of course if it is a backyard breeder that keeps animals in poor conditions I'm against it but are all other animal breeders like that? And then the over-population question comes into play, are all animals over-populating? I didn't know how to word that. Anyways.....also, I know that there's the 1 in 5 death statistic for guinea pigs when it comes to breeding. Is it that dangerous for all animals?

Again, I am just curious as to the forum's P.O.V. on this. This is not to start a war. I am not an internet troll. I sincerely want to know just what the forum's view point is on the breeding of OTHER ANIMALS.

[pinky]

Personally, I don't see any reason to breed any animals when there are so many being euthanized. However, I know that there are reputable breeders out there who breed very few animals and don't do it for profit. My gripe is when I see breeders shipping animals, charging large fees for profit, and treating it as a business. I recently noticed an eBay ad from a skinny breeder that quoted shipping costs. It made me sick.

[arionat799]

That is terrible. Yes, I always wonder why animals are bred. I mean, other than the money, what goes through peoples' minds that make them want to breed?

[ThePigAlchemist]

I can only speak for most of the mammals we keep as pets, since I don't know how overpopulated birds and pet reptiles and such are (or whether they should be pets at all). I think, though, that it's counterproductive to keep making more of animals that are being euthanized every day.

I know dog breeding is the one that seems to be in contention most of the time around here. While it makes sense that people want to maintain the breeds that exist, it's a fact that way too many dogs are being bred. While my opinion may not be the most popular one, I think a bare minimum of dogs should be bred from the most responsible breeders out there. Just enough to keep the population going, but to allow it to dwindle so it eventually reaches the point where there are homes for all of the dogs that exist. This is really idealistic though. Who is going to stop their breeding programs and admit that there are already enough people breeding their breed of choice?

So as a whole, I disagree with the breeding of pet animals, knowing that out there, someone will be breeding (accidentally, under the radar, or whatever) and thus the populations of these animals won't die out. I'm for the institution of pet ownership, but against overpopulation.

[CavyMama]

I'm not sure that dog breeding is what is in most contention around here. The one that is most at the forefront is guinea pig breeding. Makes sense, right? Since this is a guinea pig forum. Occasionally the topic of other animals being bred comes up but guinea pig breeding far outweighs those conversations.

[ThePigAlchemist]

The veteran members of the forum, though, are in general agreement that guinea pig breeding is bad since there's no argument of pet quality vs. competition quality, or service animals, or herding, or anything like that. Not to mention "responsible" guinea pig breeders have some very large shoes to fill, which many don't.

[MissJean]

The only breeding I currently accept as okay is endangered species programs and livestock. Though there's certain types of animals I am unaware of having an overpopulation problem, where breeding *might* be acceptable. I don't know.

I don't know death statistics, but there's also the issue of animals in shelters. I don't think anyone *needs* a purebred dog from a breeder. There's successful programs of shelter dogs being trained to sniff out bombs,drugs, lead blind folks etc. I especially dislike breeds of dogs that are bred with poor health. Pugs have trouble breathing, and there's one condition that can cause brain pressure in a certain breed of show dog. I wish I could remember the name.

I also fail to see the need for "working dogs". I lived out in ranch territory for a couple of years in Arizona and people's favored way of herding cattle was on 4-wheelers and riding out on horses. In the age of technology and mechanics, I don't see what else a dog could do on a farm and why a shelter dog won't be able to do it. If they need more intense training, then so be it.

Cats- I don't see what the point of breeding them is at all. Most people that own cats want only a select few traits. Lazy and cuddly, clever, playful,etc. You can ask the shelter/rescue about their cat's temperament and be just fine. From my experience you can train any cat to behave itself if you have enough patience and positive reinforcement. (Spray bottles and yelling aren't helpful people). My brother also has a cat that plays fetch from a rescue. What else do you want from a cat?

Horses- I really don't have an opinion on that since the only thing I know about them is how to saddle and ride one. They're incredibly expensive so I'm not sure how many people try and get rid of existing horses. Since I don't want to own one, I haven't researched them.

Amphibians/reptiles- I don't know either. Some are also incredibly expensive and I don't know how many are available in rescues.

Birds- I've been to a bird rescue before when I was little. I found an injured pigeon. There seemed to be a lot of parakeets,parrots, etc that were available for adoption. So I don't see the need to breed with birds, but I'm basing that on one experience.

[CavyMama]

The veteran members of the forum, though, are in general agreement that guinea pig breeding is bad since there's no argument of pet quality vs. competition quality, or service animals, or herding, or anything like that. Not to mention "responsible" guinea pig breeders have some very large shoes to fill, which many don't.

Oh definitely, the consensus here is that pig breeding is bad but occasionally, we will have someone new to the forum who will ask the question which will start a debate.

As for dogs, it's a vicious cycle, you have dogs who were born stray who breed freely and create more stray dogs which feeds the overpopulation problem. On top of that, you have homeless dogs in shelters all over the country, some of which are euthanized for lack of space. Then we have puppy mills cranking out even more dogs. Then, despite all of that, you have the breeders who continue to create even MORE dogs, even with all these other dogs who are in need of homes. The cycle is true of cats as well.

Of course, it's not like there are stray guinea pigs running around but breeding mills produce pigs for pet stores. There are thousands of pigs in need of homes in shelters and rescues across the country.

[Wildcavy]

Horses- I really don't have an opinion on that since the only thing I know about them is how to saddle and ride one. They're incredibly expensive so I'm not sure how many people try and get rid of existing horses. Since I don't want to own one, I haven't researched them.

Sadly, they do, and precisely because they are so expensive. We live in a very horse-y area, and especially with the economic downturn, people surrendered horses or just let them starve. Our shelters actually get livestock. There are quite a few horse rescues but they are even more limited in what they can do, again because of the cost and the size etc.

That isn't even including the "discards" from the racing business. I don't just mean the horses that were either too old to race or just didn't perform. They have nurse mares, and of course the only way you get a nursing mare is to have had her pregnant, which means she has a cast-off foal ... so what do you think they do with those foals? It makes me sick.

[Wildcavy]

Birds- I've been to a bird rescue before when I was little. I found an injured pigeon. There seemed to be a lot of parakeets,parrots, etc that were available for adoption. So I don't see the need to breed with birds, but I'm basing that on one experience.

I have a good friend who does bird rescue. They seem to get both ends of the stick -- the "cheaper" ones in pet stores (parakeets, finches and the like) are sick, traumatized, and treated like "starter pets" just like cavies. They tend to die easily and could, like cavies, could live longer if people treated them well.

The other end are the parrots, mynas, and so forth, which are expensive, tend to bond tightly to their original owner, and live a whole lot longer than people think -- decades. So a person moves or, in some cases, passes away, and you have a bird that is smart, attached to someone they've lived with for 20-30 years or more, and could have a lot more life in them. They need a lot of companionship and shouldn't just be locked up in a small cage all the time. Often hard to tell when they are sick until it's too late. Sounds just like piggies, actually.

[Inle_Rabbit]

I'm currently on the look out for a female Eastern Hercules Beetle. We have a male and want to get a female together with him and raise some grubs or find some grubs but since I'm not in the stump digging up business that might be a long shot. My sons and I also have a roly poly farm going and just checked on our females this morning. One is pregnant! We should have babies in about 8 weeks. I also just purchased, from a breeder, a dozen cecropia silk moth eggs. They should arrive in about 3 days and I will raise the caterpillars. Next spring when the cocoons hatch I will let the moths go.

I don't feel bad about this at all. All these species are native to my area and honestly if we get bored or it becomes to much we can just let them go. They will survive just fine since all their instincts are pre-programed and nothing is really learned. The cecropia months are having a bit of a hard time due to pesticides, parasites and street lights so I feel like I'd be helping them out. I do have issues with breeding exotic beetles and insects. If they are not native and they get out they can do a ton of damage to the existing environment and we have such pretty and interesting bugs here it doesn't make much sense to me.

[MissJean]

@Inle_Rabbit yeah, I love bugs! I hold a lesser importance on them than other animals, but I respect their life. I'd love to get praying mantis eggs for gardens and such. Rolie Polies are *so* incredibly cute!

[pinky]

I have a good friend who does bird rescue. They seem to get both ends of the stick -- the "cheaper" ones in pet stores (parakeets, finches and the like) are sick, traumatized, and treated like "starter pets" just like cavies. They tend to die easily and could, like cavies, could live longer if people treated them well.

The other end are the parrots, mynas, and so forth, which are expensive, tend to bond tightly to their original owner, and live a whole lot longer than people think -- decades. So a person moves or, in some cases, passes away, and you have a bird that is smart, attached to someone they've lived with for 20-30 years or more, and could have a lot more life in them. They need a lot of companionship and shouldn't just be locked up in a small cage all the time. Often hard to tell when they are sick until it's too late. Sounds just like piggies, actually.

My sister has a cockatoo she rescued from being put down. He has a crooked beak. She said she figures she might have to put him in her will since there's a chance he might outlive them. He's very social with humans but their dogs and cat are afraid of him.

[Wildcavy]

@Inle_Rabbit that is interesting! We currently raise mason bees. They are native species and really cool. Non-aggressive, and they need the help b/c of pesticides and such.

[arionat799]

Rolie Polies are *so* incredibly cute!

@Inle_Rabbit and @MissJean , sorry, I am really bad about bugs. I even get tense and feel like some are crawling up my legs just posting about them. Ahhh! I swear ones in my ear! Oh, and thanks for the pics Inle, I literally screamed out loud when I clicked on the links .

[CavyMama]

Yeah, I'm not exactly on board with bugs but I don't purposely kill them (except mosquitos that are trying to bite me). Most of them, if I can manage it, I catch them and release them outside, even spiders which I am especially fearful of.

[emeraldamykate]

A few years ago I lived in a neigborhood that had a major stray cat problem. It all stemmed from my not so smart neighbor who apparently didn't feel like getting her cats spayed or neutered before throwing them outside, and of course what went from about four or five cats at one point went to about twenty. Of course this isn't putting a male and a female in the same room and hoping for babies so they can sell them, but I still think this constitutes breeding. Especially when there are easy ways to prevent this from happening. So sweet little twelve year old me starts taking in cats and finding some homes, and unfortunately I needed to take some to the local shelter because I couldn't keep all of them. At one point, had a friends mom ask me if I could help her find homes for kittens because she wanted her kids to see a cat give birth, and the "miricle of life." This is something I've read about but I never in my life thought I'd ever hear of someone doing this. I've seen how terrible the overpopulation of cats is in my area.

A few weeks ago I made a decision to purchase my first guinea pig. I didn't think this was a bad decision at the time, but after thinking about it, I realized, even though there isn't an overpopulation of them in my area, doesn't mean there isn't a problem in someone else's area, and after going through what I went through with the cats, I can't believe I supported the idea of bringing more into this world, when somewhere, there are way too many piggies and not enough homes.

I now can't agree with any intentional breeding of ANY pet, when somewhere there is an overpopulation problem. Just because it isn't happening in my area, doesn't mean it's not happening elsewhere.

[MissJean]

@emeraldamykate They have catch and release neutering/spaying programs. You rent out the cages and bring them in to approved locations. If you're ever interested, of course.

[Inle_Rabbit]

@MissJean - I have seen praying mantis eggs on the internet. Have a look around!

@Wildcavy - my husband and I took a bee keeping class for our date night last spring. It was really interesting. I don't think my apartment complex would be happy though if I set up a bee hive on our back porch. We will just have to wait until we get a house. So very, very close now!

@arionat799 - Even the cecropia moth? I think they are very beautiful! If it makes you feel better roly polies aren't really bugs, they are isopods like shrimp.

[Wildcavy]

@emeraldamykate They have catch and release neutering/spaying programs. You rent out the cages and bring them in to approved locations. If you're ever interested, of course.

This is an area of quite a bit of conflict, but I can say that I absolutely, categorically do not support catch and release / feral colonies. They are non-native, harm wildlife, and if you check out some of the reporting in Florida, use beaches and other areas as their sandboxes. The disease factor is awful.

Mind you, I do not believe in destroying them, either. The efforts would be better spent catching, spaying/neutering, funding (no-kill) shelters and fosters, and so on.

But that may be a hot enough topic for a separate thread, so ....