Breeding???

[GuineaGuroo16]

I have NO pigies right now for sale, so I am not befitting from that. I know a lot and am experienced with what I do but I do not know everything. I came on here because I don't know a lot of other people with guineas. I came here to talk and share stories, pictures, and knowledge. Just cause I am a breeder does not mean I am an evil person who only cares about money and live stock.

[GuineaGuroo16]

I only said I was breeder up front so that I didn't spend a lot of time here and then have someone find out, or have to hide a lot and then end up feeling unwanted. I just didn't want to chat on this forum if I wasn't going to be respected.

[PinkBelly]

A few polite questions.
I feed them about a cup of food for the two of them. I buy timothy hay and give them about a fistfull a day. I don't exactly measure out and distribute the veggies but they all get about a cup of veggies AT LEAST every two days. All my piggies get pellets, hay, and veggies. If a guinea is old, pregnant, or under the weather I have vitamin C drops that I add t their water.

I believe you should feed unlimited Hay and 1 cup fresh veggies everyday for each piggie.... and vitamin C drops in water is bad...

[GuineaGuroo16]

So sorry for the super long post but I want to be able to respond to everyone!

re·spons·si·ble /riˈspänsəbəl/
Adjective:
1. Having an obligation to do something as part of a job or role.
2. Being the primary cause of something and so able to be blames or credited for it.

Let’s take a minute to examine the definition of responsible.

The first point being obligated to do something as a job or role. Who said this was a job that needed done and why do you feel obligated to be the one to do it? There is an excess of pets in this world that are euthanized everyday, only for breeders to make more. I’m not convinced it’s a job/role that should even be around.

The second being the primary cause of something, therefore being able to accept blame or credit. I would surely like to here if there is any credit to be given to breeders. What good have they done? What deserves credit? The blame part is easy. Breeders are to blame for all the unwanted pigs in this world. For every guinea pig you breed one more is left in a shelter to be euthanized.

There is no such thing as a responsible breeder. You may take care of your livestock, but that’s just being humane…not responsible. Please don’t confuse the two.

I have no intensions of ostracizing those who come here looking for knowledge. They just have to be willing to learn all aspects of proper care. But, unfortunately many people only listen to what they want to hear and that is the exact opposite of responsible.

I feel obligated to because it's something I love. Just because it's something I do out of my own interest does not mean that I'm hurting my piggies for my own personal want. None of my guineas are hurt or sad, I can take good care of them and enjoy learning about breeds and showing. I respect your point of view and it's a topic that care easily go both ways.

Welcome!! Can't wait to see pictures My feelings toward a responsible breeder, are better than how I feel about the pet stores who buy from mills. If I didn't get my little girl from someone who didn't want her....that's where I would have searched, a responsible breeder.

Thankyou. I'm not saying however that all breeders are good either. There's a lot of both. When I go to shows sometimes other, larger breeders make deals with petstores. I don't respect them or agree with what they are doing. But if you can find a good breeder, then I think they are better then a patstore to.

@Crystalkate , you make an excellent point in your post -- that if you hadn't gotten your little girl from someone who didn't want her, then you'd want to go to a breeder that cares about her/his pigs. The key part is "someone who didn't want her." There are lots of "someones" who don't want piggies. They are the ones who surrender a litter at the pound. The ones who dump a sow and her litter in a fast-food restaurant's dumpster at high noon in summer. The ones who throw an entire litter of pups into the woods and run. The ones who let their 3 year-old piggy who knew nothing but love, loose in the parking lot because their kid outgrew it.

If there comes a time when there are no piggies anywhere that are unwanted, then breeding would be necessary to reproduce the species. At that point, we could talk about "responsible" breeding. And at that point, there is no question that I would want a breeder that knew bloodlines, cage specifications, food, exercise, etc. -- because there will never be a time or excuse for animal mills of any kind. But we aren't there. And I would still be suspicious of a breeder that insists he/she knows everything and is unwilling to discuss exactly what he/she does with his/her pigs.

These piggies rely on us entirely. They cannot make their own reproductive decisions. They cannot decide whether to risk a 20% chance of dying at delivery because they want to reproduce their species. They can't decide to go out and get food or move to a nicer place. So it is our responsibility to make the decisions that are in *their* best interests, not according to our desires or wants.

And that is why I am *not* going to judge a breeder as a person, because individual breeders vary as much in their hearts and moral standards as those of us on the pro-adoption side do, and it is only one facet of their lives. But that is why I most certainly am going to judge that person's actions, and underpin it with facts and research. And they are free to judge my actions or positions. I'm glad breeders are on the forum because we need to be reminded of issues that are still out there, and I appreciate breeders who are up front with what they do -- as long as they don't pretend they already know everything. I know that I don't, otherwise I wouldn't be on this forum.

​I definitely don't know EVERYTHING. There is a lot out there to know. All I'm asking from this forum to be able to share my stories, knowledge, and thoughts and to be respected. I wanted to be upfront about being a breeder so that I don't waste my time some place that does not want me.

My feeling is that this is a pro rescue and pro breeding discussions really don't belong on here. If someone happens to be a breeder, responsible or not, I don't understand why they would come on here to discuss the fact that they breed, other than to let others know that they are out there to sell their guinea pigs. I'm sure there are a lot of pro breeding sites out there for that purpose. There's a lot of valuable information on here for everyone to read and share but disclosing the fact that they are breeders doesn't seem to be of any benefit to anyone on this site except the breeder. I think everyone is more than welcome to come on here to share info on guinea pigs but there are so many guinea pigs out there needing homes, I don't think it does any good to help the plight of homeless guinea pigs to offer breeders a forum to advertise that they sell guinea pigs.

​ Right now, I litteraly have NO guineas to sell right now. I am not here to advertise. I siad I was a breeder cause I am, and I wanted to be honest. I dout anyone is going to come up to me looking for a guinea on this site. I'm here because I want to be around other people who are enthusiastic about guinea pigs. My friends and family are about sick of hearing out the pigs.

My concern about obliging a breeder to hide that they are a breeder, is that they could offer information or a suggestion on something that is off-base or created for mass-production purposes, and other participants may not understand that it is wrong. So then if a more expert person corrects them, or a lively discussion ensues, I think the fact that a person is a breeder is going to come out. And then it would seem like they are being dishonest because they have had to conceal their identities.

I also think that it gets a good discussion going not so much for the benefit of the breeder trying to promote his/her position, but rather a person who is on the fence or thinks there is such a thing as a responsible breeder. If the issue never comes up from the perspective of someone who is inclined to approve of breeding, then we will never be able to work out a coherent, persuasive way of helping them see the dangers. At least for me, I'd rather hear a point by point statement from someone on the other side of the issue, so that I can organize my counter-argument or position.

But I agree that they shouldn't be promoting sales or such. Just my two cents.

Thankyou. I am pretty on the fence with this argument. I know there are bad breeders, horrible breeders and people who abuse and don't care for their animals. I'm not trying to promote breeding or their ethics. Yes, I believe there can be such a thing as a responsible breeder as well. I'm thankfull for sights like this that are pro-adoption. Anyone I can't sell a guinea to I would tell to go to a shelter or rescue. And I feel sorry for any piggie that ends up in a rescue or shelter.

I don't think it would be dishonest for them not to disclose they are a breeder. Anyone can come on here and tout what they see as "benefits" of breeding or any other business for that matter. Anyone can join in on the discussion to agree or disagree. Stating the fact that they breed opens the possibility of behind the scenes sales through private messaging. The fact is, breeders sell guinea pigs and it's a business that sells guinea pigs at the expense of the hundreds of guinea pigs that are homeless and being euthanized.

I really dont breed as much as you may think, and I usually keep half the litter. Like I said in my last response, I'm am aware and sorry for abused guinea, and I am not here to sell or promote breeding. I made this thread to simply ask for permission from anyone and everyone on the forum that I could join in on the discussions.

Good point on the private messaging / behind the scenes sales -- I'd not thought of that.

I have sent 0 private messages since I've joined and have zero piggies to sell right now. I have plenty of people I know who want a piggie from me that I have to put on hold. I don't need this site to advertise.

Can anyone explain to me how breeding for show is anything other than creating a life with the sole intention of being awarded for how well the genes mixed to create a coat and temperment that falls within criteria created to serve this very pupose? Please, don't try to say it is to learn a lesson... lessons are learned through research daily, and bringing lives into the world just so you can win a ribbon is just pitiful in my completely honest opinion. Honestly, it sounds like ego stroking at the behest of poor animals with zero choice in the matter.

I have always used my own prowess in endeavors to earn rewards... it is a lot more impressive to utilize a skill set that you have sharpened through practice and determination than to have animals mate at the risk of their own lives just so you can put them in tiny cages and have people judge them.

No animals have ever died or been left without a home from any of my achievements.

ETA: I'm not trying to be inflammatory, just blunt and honest. Breeding is a choice, and with overpopulation and animals being PTS daily at shelters being so well known, I question the conscience of those who choose to be a part of the problem.

Showing is a way for me to learn more and see other guineas. I show my guinea pigs because I've worked to try to get show quality guineas. Saying show quality gives it a kind of crule edge. An animal can be show quality and showed but also be loved at the same time. What about showing is keeping me from caring for them. It's simply an enjoyable thing for both me to attend and for the guinea to get out a bit. From experience they don't get over stressed. They are curious. The babies that are born into my care are not solely for showing and producing more.

I'm sure it has a lot to do with a mindset that considers an animal to be a commodity that can be sold or traded, with the sale price dependent on it's "value." I know that there are even a lot of very different personal views on pet ownership and what it means.

I love each of my guineas and know their personalities, but that does not mean I cannot sell the babies either. My mindset is not that they are live stock, I don't weigh each of their values and try to get as much money out of it as possible. Many of the people I have sold to have sent me pictures of the guineas when they are all grown up, I love to know that I gave them a good home.

Over population aside... I love my baby too much to loose her to a 20% chance of dying during delivery. There are so many things that can go wrong. As a parent, you don't take those risks with your children. My pets are cared for like they are my children. When I hear "breeder", I think of someone who wants to make money while they sit at home. What other reason would you have? It's not like you are keeping the babies for yourself.

My reason is the joy of gaining more knowledge, caring for living things, and at shows, being able to be around other people that know what I know. I care for each of my pigs but there's a pride in being able to look at any guinea and knowing it's breed/variety, look at its body type, flesh condition, fur condition, and it's health. It's the level of knowledge that's the joy. But of coarse that joy and reason also comes from the guinea pig. The same reason you have them. I keep track of my money spend and earned on guinea pigs. I loose more than I gain. I pay for them, not profit from them.

I am not at all a proponent of breeding guinea pigs! I am a proponent of gaining/sharing knowledge and I hate to see someone alienated, who may even have breed specific knowledge (does this exist with piggies?) because they perform an act that not everyone agrees with. With that said...I do understand that this site is against breeding and why would someone want to log on and talk about breeding, that really does make NO sense to me. It would be like joining some Christian forum with the hopes of talking about Islam or Buddhism or something. That just seems silly. I also did not think about the PM selling...although I doubt most people would be on here looking for a breeder. I think, if I'm not mistaken, GuineaGuroo16 was actually just asking if they could participate in the forum even though they breed. I'm not sure they were looking to change everyone's mind on the matter or try to sell them. Who knows!

My parents bred and showed Shar Pei pups when I was a child. They did it because they loved the breed and ended up keeping the pups or they went to friends. They did not do it for ribbons but because they enjoyed being with their dogs. It is a way for dog parents (lovers of a specific breed) to bond with their pets. They have always seen their dogs as companions just as much as most of the people I know who rescue dogs. Unfortunately, there are too many people breeding and showing that are making money off of it and some do not see their animals as pets. This is just sad. However, there are also RESCUERS who adopt too many dogs/piggies/cats and those animals may even be worse off at times than someone who has a few pups/cats/pigs that they breed occasionally.

I personally have no desire to breed or show anything (have you seen "Best in Show"? Yikes!)

I have a 10 year old mixed rescue pup, a 10 year old mixed foster pup (anyone want a dog that hates kids?) and a 14 year old pure bred Labrador. AND I will probably go to a small RESPONSIBLE breeder for my next dog...because I like knowing what I'm getting when it comes to personality traits. If piggies had breed specific traits (they may, I don't know) I may have considered going to a breeder. I just knew I wasn't going to a pet store because I want to actually see who I am supporting. OH and because I would want them sexed properly

Again, I perpously siad I was breeder so that I wouldn't have to, lie and hide things. I want to be able to go on this forum and know that I've had permission to here.

1. You cannot breed behavioral traits in guinea pigs.

2. This person said they are breeding show pigs. I'm not here to talk about dog breeders who breed for their family. However, your contention that "it is a way for dog parents to bond with their pets" is ridiculous. Bond with you pet by treating it well and loving it, not by ensuring it is impregnated and could potentially die.

I care and look into every sow I breed, I don't take risks. The only risk is yes, that 20% and I know it's there and dred it but I can't change that. I hate taking the risk but I know it's there and make sure I don't raise that percent any more. I don't breed all of my sows, and none of them have been bred more than twice in their LIFE.

SurfingPigs I do agree that knowing the risk of breeding guinea pigs that I could never lovingly breed one. It doesn't seem worth it to put my fur kid in danger like that. I also agree that promoting the breeding of guinea pigs is against my personal beliefs.

I still don't believe that someone who breeds should be excluded in the exchange of knowledge. I've met a lot of people I would consider less than intelligent, but I'm sure they've taught someone something in their life time

I know it's hard to put loving and breeding together but in a way it can work. Its not just looking at the risk. Look at the larger 80% chance it all goes well. Then you get to raise wonderful little babies, and share them with someone else who also will love and care for them. Thankyou for respecting the fact that I only want to chat on this forum like the rest of you. I'm not trying to get anyone to be pro-breeding. I'm not even pro-breeding in a way. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. There are enough out there and it's a huge responsibility and a lot of hard work. I wouldn't recommend it to someone because all breeders are evil but because not everyone is capable of understanding the importance of keeping strong morals and ethics.

I don't think anyone who breeds should be excluded, either. I just don't see any purpose of them bringing up that point on a site that is pro rescue. If it's information they want to gain and exchange, they can do that without pointing out they're a breeder, unless they are trying to debate the issue or make it known that they are a breeder to drum up some business from those who might be inclined to buy a guinea pig instead of adopt.

@SeeSpotSit I am 100% with you, nobody should be excluded from participating and sharing knowledge. I have never implored anyone to leave this forum because they are breeding, I've merely asked them to remove their rose-colored glasses and loosen their grip on whatever shreds of ignorance they may claim. I bring up logical points that are rarely contended with anything other than emotion.

For the record, I hope everyone who breeds sticks around. They can read our stories of 152 guinea pigs being dumped at high-kill shelters and maybe realize, one day, that for each guinea pig they bring into this world at the risk of their sow's life, another pig will die in a shelter waiting for a home. Most people have some valuable knowledge to share, and I encourage they do that, instead of defending a defenseless act.

Thankyou, I think I've covered a lot of that stuff already.

I would like to restate the there is no such thing as a responsible breeder.

For every baby born, one more dies in a shelter. Making more babies does not fix the overpopulation problem.

When it comes to animals, they are euthanized when space runs out. Maybe more people would understand this if it was applied to human babies (not changing topics, just trying to make a point)

Would we be a responsible society if every time a baby was born, one in an orphanage was put down? And how would you feel about those who kept having babies while others died without a family to love them?

I respect everyones beliefs and views, but I will stand by what I said when I say there is such a thing as a responsible breeder. It's a shame that all breeders have been painted one color though.

[jowasaurus]

I believe you should feed unlimited Hay and 1 cup fresh veggies everyday for each piggie.... and vitamin C drops in water is bad...

Exactly what PinkBelly said, Vitamin C drops in the water does NOTHING but discolor and change its taste. The actual vitamin from the drops almost instantly disintegrates or something once in a water bottle. First thing, if you are going to give supplements, give something like Oxbow vitamin c tablets. They come in bottles of 90 for like $6.99 here in Pa. Though if they were getting the right veggies at the right amounts, this kind of supplement isn't really necessary.
Please try to give them more hay if possible. I know a handful can be A LOT in some terms, but it should really just be an always full hay rack[or however you feed it], which would be more like a handful in the morning and a handful at night at my house.
Are you at least giving them good quality pellets? Hopefully so if that's going to be the main staple of their diets.

I've been following this thread without really saying anything, giving everyone the chance to say their peace about responsibility and blah blah, but after your BIG reply, I'm sorry @GuineaGuroo16 but like you said yourself, you've got a lot to learn about pigs and I'm glad you're here. I think everyone, even self proclaimed gurus, can benefit from this site and it's been a blessing for me at least to find such an abundance of information here.

All of this is not to try and intimidate or bash you in any way, just helping a fellow pig owner. =]

[I'd still love to see some pigtures btw]

[GuineaGuroo16]

re·spons·si·ble /riˈspänsəbəl/
Adjective:
1. Having an obligation to do something as part of a job or role.
2. Being the primary cause of something and so able to be blames or credited for it.

Let’s take a minute to examine the definition of responsible.

The first point being obligated to do something as a job or role. Who said this was a job that needed done and why do you feel obligated to be the one to do it? There is an excess of pets in this world that are euthanized everyday, only for breeders to make more. I’m not convinced it’s a job/role that should even be around.

The second being the primary cause of something, therefore being able to accept blame or credit. I would surely like to here if there is any credit to be given to breeders. What good have they done? What deserves credit? The blame part is easy. Breeders are to blame for all the unwanted pigs in this world. For every guinea pig you breed one more is left in a shelter to be euthanized.

There is no such thing as a responsible breeder. You may take care of your livestock, but that’s just being humane…not responsible. Please don’t confuse the two.

I have no intensions of ostracizing those who come here looking for knowledge. They just have to be willing to learn all aspects of proper care. But, unfortunately many people only listen to what they want to hear and that is the exact opposite of responsible.

Welcome!! Can't wait to see pictures My feelings toward a responsible breeder, are better than how I feel about the pet stores who buy from mills. If I didn't get my little girl from someone who didn't want her....that's where I would have searched, a responsible breeder.

@Crystalkate , you make an excellent point in your post -- that if you hadn't gotten your little girl from someone who didn't want her, then you'd want to go to a breeder that cares about her/his pigs. The key part is "someone who didn't want her." There are lots of "someones" who don't want piggies. They are the ones who surrender a litter at the pound. The ones who dump a sow and her litter in a fast-food restaurant's dumpster at high noon in summer. The ones who throw an entire litter of pups into the woods and run. The ones who let their 3 year-old piggy who knew nothing but love, loose in the parking lot because their kid outgrew it.

If there comes a time when there are no piggies anywhere that are unwanted, then breeding would be necessary to reproduce the species. At that point, we could talk about "responsible" breeding. And at that point, there is no question that I would want a breeder that knew bloodlines, cage specifications, food, exercise, etc. -- because there will never be a time or excuse for animal mills of any kind. But we aren't there. And I would still be suspicious of a breeder that insists he/she knows everything and is unwilling to discuss exactly what he/she does with his/her pigs.

These piggies rely on us entirely. They cannot make their own reproductive decisions. They cannot decide whether to risk a 20% chance of dying at delivery because they want to reproduce their species. They can't decide to go out and get food or move to a nicer place. So it is our responsibility to make the decisions that are in *their* best interests, not according to our desires or wants.

And that is why I am *not* going to judge a breeder as a person, because individual breeders vary as much in their hearts and moral standards as those of us on the pro-adoption side do, and it is only one facet of their lives. But that is why I most certainly am going to judge that person's actions, and underpin it with facts and research. And they are free to judge my actions or positions. I'm glad breeders are on the forum because we need to be reminded of issues that are still out there, and I appreciate breeders who are up front with what they do -- as long as they don't pretend they already know everything. I know that I don't, otherwise I wouldn't be on this forum.

My feeling is that this is a pro rescue and pro breeding discussions really don't belong on here. If someone happens to be a breeder, responsible or not, I don't understand why they would come on here to discuss the fact that they breed, other than to let others know that they are out there to sell their guinea pigs. I'm sure there are a lot of pro breeding sites out there for that purpose. There's a lot of valuable information on here for everyone to read and share but disclosing the fact that they are breeders doesn't seem to be of any benefit to anyone on this site except the breeder. I think everyone is more than welcome to come on here to share info on guinea pigs but there are so many guinea pigs out there needing homes, I don't think it does any good to help the plight of homeless guinea pigs to offer breeders a forum to advertise that they sell guinea pigs.

My concern about obliging a breeder to hide that they are a breeder, is that they could offer information or a suggestion on something that is off-base or created for mass-production purposes, and other participants may not understand that it is wrong. So then if a more expert person corrects them, or a lively discussion ensues, I think the fact that a person is a breeder is going to come out. And then it would seem like they are being dishonest because they have had to conceal their identities.

I also think that it gets a good discussion going not so much for the benefit of the breeder trying to promote his/her position, but rather a person who is on the fence or thinks there is such a thing as a responsible breeder. If the issue never comes up from the perspective of someone who is inclined to approve of breeding, then we will never be able to work out a coherent, persuasive way of helping them see the dangers. At least for me, I'd rather hear a point by point statement from someone on the other side of the issue, so that I can organize my counter-argument or position.

But I agree that they shouldn't be promoting sales or such. Just my two cents.

I don't think it would be dishonest for them not to disclose they are a breeder. Anyone can come on here and tout what they see as "benefits" of breeding or any other business for that matter. Anyone can join in on the discussion to agree or disagree. Stating the fact that they breed opens the possibility of behind the scenes sales through private messaging. The fact is, breeders sell guinea pigs and it's a business that sells guinea pigs at the expense of the hundreds of guinea pigs that are homeless and being euthanized.

Good point on the private messaging / behind the scenes sales -- I'd not thought of that.

Can anyone explain to me how breeding for show is anything other than creating a life with the sole intention of being awarded for how well the genes mixed to create a coat and temperment that falls within criteria created to serve this very pupose? Please, don't try to say it is to learn a lesson... lessons are learned through research daily, and bringing lives into the world just so you can win a ribbon is just pitiful in my completely honest opinion. Honestly, it sounds like ego stroking at the behest of poor animals with zero choice in the matter.

I have always used my own prowess in endeavors to earn rewards... it is a lot more impressive to utilize a skill set that you have sharpened through practice and determination than to have animals mate at the risk of their own lives just so you can put them in tiny cages and have people judge them.

No animals have ever died or been left without a home from any of my achievements.

ETA: I'm not trying to be inflammatory, just blunt and honest. Breeding is a choice, and with overpopulation and animals being PTS daily at shelters being so well known, I question the conscience of those who choose to be a part of the problem.

I'm sure it has a lot to do with a mindset that considers an animal to be a commodity that can be sold or traded, with the sale price dependent on it's "value." I know that there are even a lot of very different personal views on pet ownership and what it means.

Over population aside... I love my baby too much to loose her to a 20% chance of dying during delivery. There are so many things that can go wrong. As a parent, you don't take those risks with your children. My pets are cared for like they are my children. When I hear "breeder", I think of someone who wants to make money while they sit at home. What other reason would you have? It's not like you are keeping the babies for yourself.

I am not at all a proponent of breeding guinea pigs! I am a proponent of gaining/sharing knowledge and I hate to see someone alienated, who may even have breed specific knowledge (does this exist with piggies?) because they perform an act that not everyone agrees with. With that said...I do understand that this site is against breeding and why would someone want to log on and talk about breeding, that really does make NO sense to me. It would be like joining some Christian forum with the hopes of talking about Islam or Buddhism or something. That just seems silly. I also did not think about the PM selling...although I doubt most people would be on here looking for a breeder. I think, if I'm not mistaken, GuineaGuroo16 was actually just asking if they could participate in the forum even though they breed. I'm not sure they were looking to change everyone's mind on the matter or try to sell them. Who knows!

My parents bred and showed Shar Pei pups when I was a child. They did it because they loved the breed and ended up keeping the pups or they went to friends. They did not do it for ribbons but because they enjoyed being with their dogs. It is a way for dog parents (lovers of a specific breed) to bond with their pets. They have always seen their dogs as companions just as much as most of the people I know who rescue dogs. Unfortunately, there are too many people breeding and showing that are making money off of it and some do not see their animals as pets. This is just sad. However, there are also RESCUERS who adopt too many dogs/piggies/cats and those animals may even be worse off at times than someone who has a few pups/cats/pigs that they breed occasionally.

I personally have no desire to breed or show anything (have you seen "Best in Show"? Yikes!)

I have a 10 year old mixed rescue pup, a 10 year old mixed foster pup (anyone want a dog that hates kids?) and a 14 year old pure bred Labrador. AND I will probably go to a small RESPONSIBLE breeder for my next dog...because I like knowing what I'm getting when it comes to personality traits. If piggies had breed specific traits (they may, I don't know) I may have considered going to a breeder. I just knew I wasn't going to a pet store because I want to actually see who I am supporting. OH and because I would want them sexed properly

1. You cannot breed behavioral traits in guinea pigs.

2. This person said they are breeding show pigs. I'm not here to talk about dog breeders who breed for their family. However, your contention that "it is a way for dog parents to bond with their pets" is ridiculous. Bond with you pet by treating it well and loving it, not by ensuring it is impregnated and could potentially die.

SurfingPigs I do agree that knowing the risk of breeding guinea pigs that I could never lovingly breed one. It doesn't seem worth it to put my fur kid in danger like that. I also agree that promoting the breeding of guinea pigs is against my personal beliefs.

I still don't believe that someone who breeds should be excluded in the exchange of knowledge. I've met a lot of people I would consider less than intelligent, but I'm sure they've taught someone something in their life time

I don't think anyone who breeds should be excluded, either. I just don't see any purpose of them bringing up that point on a site that is pro rescue. If it's information they want to gain and exchange, they can do that without pointing out they're a breeder, unless they are trying to debate the issue or make it known that they are a breeder to drum up some business from those who might be inclined to buy a guinea pig instead of adopt.

@SeeSpotSit I am 100% with you, nobody should be excluded from participating and sharing knowledge. I have never implored anyone to leave this forum because they are breeding, I've merely asked them to remove their rose-colored glasses and loosen their grip on whatever shreds of ignorance they may claim. I bring up logical points that are rarely contended with anything other than emotion.

For the record, I hope everyone who breeds sticks around. They can read our stories of 152 guinea pigs being dumped at high-kill shelters and maybe realize, one day, that for each guinea pig they bring into this world at the risk of their sow's life, another pig will die in a shelter waiting for a home. Most people have some valuable knowledge to share, and I encourage they do that, instead of defending a defenseless act.

I would like to restate the there is no such thing as a responsible breeder.

For every baby born, one more dies in a shelter. Making more babies does not fix the overpopulation problem.

When it comes to animals, they are euthanized when space runs out. Maybe more people would understand this if it was applied to human babies (not changing topics, just trying to make a point)

Would we be a responsible society if every time a baby was born, one in an orphanage was put down? And how would you feel about those who kept having babies while others died without a family to love them?

I believe you should feed unlimited Hay and 1 cup fresh veggies everyday for each piggie.... and vitamin C drops in water is bad...

My guineas are not underweight if anything they are a little chubby. I have also heard that hay is a bit fattening. But I'll look into those side of the cage attachments that allow unlimited hay. I think I said 1cup fresh veggies.
I've never head that vitamin C drops are bad? Do you have a link to a web site or something. As you probably all ready know guineas are very prone to scurvy and need vitamin C given to them through veggies. I don't use the drops much/ at all. Only for when they are under the weather. Please add on to the vitamin c drop, I haven't heard they were bad before????

[GuineaGuroo16]

Ok, that makes sence. But again I rarely use them, they have enough veggies to be good on Vitamin c. Thankyou anyway. I'm going to go on google and look into it a bit more. And my brands nutrition label is pretty darn close to what I've herd is recommended. (when I saidd handful I'm thinking about the size of a... umm.. football maybe.) Thanks

[SpazNMeos momma]

ok so first off @ jowasaurus the pig in your avatar with the costume is so effin adorable. Had to say that first even though it has nothing to do with the thread.

And back to the thread, I have learned alot through this site and like PP have said you do need to give veggies everyday. That is thier main form of vitamin C. The drops are a waste of money and a lot of piggies wont drink as much water as they need with the flavor of the drops. You said you have only a pair of pigs in each cage, that would be 9 cages, If your interested we could help you find the materials for a c& c cage that would probably make things easier for you. Only cleaning say 3 big cages would be better IMHO than cleaning 9 small ones.

[Catahoula]

"They have good sized cages."

What sizes exactly, and what type of cages have you got?

Like I siad, I'll get back to you on the first part. They are not a name bran. It was a small local place that makes their own cages. But I've looked them over many times. No wholes, or loose wires, or anything dangerous. And I know and trust who makes them.

How exactly are these local cages constructed? What parts of the cage are wire? A picture would be better if you can post one...

[CavySpirit]

I want to say THANK YOU to our members for being respectful.

Second, I want to say that it is still okay to say who you are and be honest in an introduction thread. That's fine.

Here's what's not fine.

GuineaGuroo-16, you are a 16-year old kid who is breeding who is in turn encouraging other kids to breed. It's the breeding social life. It's the way it is. And -that- is NOT okay. It's not okay with me anyway. And the buck stops with me.

You are more than welcome to contribute your depth of experience about guinea pigs to the forum. You are welcome to join in on a whole variety of topics and subjects about guinea pigs.

However, this is NOT a social club for breeders. Sorry, it just isn't. I do not welcome breeders coming here and having the same fun about talking about their guinea pigs and sharing their social highlights. You may not post pictures of your pigs. You may not brag about your individual pigs. Use a breeder forum for that.

Actually, we have quite a few breeders on this site. We (the moderators) know who they are. It's fine to be a breeder here. You just don't get to publicize it in posts (other than your one intro post). Those breeders get the same respect as everyone else on this site.

I myself am a breeder (I breed for showing, not for profit)

Out everyone who breeds (and by definition ALL contribute to the pet overpopulation problem) -- damn few actually have a money motive. The VAST majority of saintly breeders will all tell you that they breed to better the breed. Out of those noble justifications, most really breed for their own fun and social satisfaction. Since I rather doubt you are heavily knowledgeable in the science of genetics and you are too young to have years of experience in the so-called 'bettering the breed' process, you are breeding because you like it. ACBA and 4H are social outlets. Winning and sharing and competing is fun. Well, rescuing the results of the breeder's fun is heartbreaking and never-ending. Enough is enough already.

You call yourself a responsible breeder. I call you a kid with a hobby.

I have to say, I'm a bit confused by what seems like a contradiction in your first post:

I myself am a breeder (I breed for showing, not for profit) and I've herd lots of things about how some people can be rude, or believe very strongly in anti-breeding. This is one of the first and rare times I've run into this though I'm very aware there is plenty of it out there.

And then this:

I have viewed other forums and it is very hard as a breeder to be viewed as someone who actually cares for their pigs.

It sounds like you are saying that this forum is one of those rare experiences that you've run into where people are anti-breeding and yet you've had the experience that it is difficult to be a breeder and be accepted? hmmm.

Part of my overall lifetime mission is to continue the social pressure to ostracize both the social outlets for breeders as well as their avenues to sell their stock and their culls. This forum will never be a place for breeders to feel welcome in that regard. But, you respect us, we respect you. It's pretty simple. That is this community. You are invited to be a part of it as long as you understand what this community is about.

...would like it if I would be accepted in this forum without constantly being harassed

The only way you are going to be constantly harassed is if you bring up the breeding thing in any way, shape or form. If you want to do that, I know there are private groups out there of breeders. I know that there are other forums that welcome guinea pig breeders with open arms and love to bitch about how mean we are here. When, in point of fact, we are not.

I've gone to great lengths to improve the communication between members and to not have our passionate members get all over new people before they have a chance to understand the forum. But, I think you already know the big picture. So, I'm being frank about where we are coming from.

We welcome your participation and experience and post contributions, provided the breeding angle is not heard from again.

In that spirit, we are not taking this thread down the path of pros and cons of breeding, nor what really defines a so-called responsible breeder. We've got many great threads out there on that already.

So, we accept the fact that you are a breeder and that's that. I'm hopeful that if you hang out here long enough, perhaps you'll shift gears into rescuing instead. It's much harder, but much more rewarding and you become part of the solution instead of part of the problem. And we have a great need for more rescuers. We need more breeders like we need a hole in the head -- IMHO.

I know that didn't sound as welcoming as you'd like, because you don't get to let it all hang out here--so to speak. But you make your experience what you want here as well. We are fun and crazy bunch of guinea pig lovers with a mountain of great info and experiences--from newbies to lifetime (long life-time) veterans.

So adjust your expectations a bit and enjoy. From the posts that have been removed, you do have a lot of learning to do.

I'm going to leave my questions as rhetorical questions and close this thread.

I believe all points have been made.

Cheers,
Teresa