Alaska Oil Drilling

[Sabriel]

Thanks Christy, you're right it is great, we can carry on intelligent adult conversations in a neutral place.

I'm glad there's not too many hard feelings. I really didn't mean for this to escalate into a debate about war. In the begining I was much more concerend about the passport situation and a broken treaty. I wonder where that person went? The one that started the 9/11 bend on this thread.

I don't believe I owe anyone an apology

That's really unsportsman like. At least Holli'smommy and I were able to back down gracefully when we could both see the debate was getting nowhere and all more debating would do is hurt other people's feelings. I'm sure Holli'smommy hasn't changed her position and I haven't changed mine. But in end end both of us were able to concede a couple things about the topic at hand: Alaska. We both agree the treaty shouldn't be broken but we differ on what should be done about it.

I couldn't live without Maple Syrup, the real stuff.

Now lets all sit down, grap a plate of pancakes, waffles, French toast or what ever else and have a nice big helping of maple syrup. I think a bit of sweetness would do us all wonders

[FurryCritters]

You all should go back and read from the very beginning.

I believe the person who responded to the first couple of posts was only defending why passports are a good thing to get back into the US through the Canadian border. Also, why drilling for our own oil will start to help us in not depending on foreign countries.

I guess attacking the US is acceptable, but defending it is not - go figure.

[Sabriel]

Maybe you don't like it, but think of us here in the US. We were attacked by terrorists and some of them through Canada to get here. I am sure if Canada experienced what we did you would feel totally different.

It's a good point about foriegn passports. I agree, check all the forieng passports you want. Heck even check the passports anyone not born in America, but what is your own birth certificate worth if your own country won't accept it as ID. Is is that forgeable? Is it that unsafe?

This all started when I defended Canada (the terrorists did not come through our border) and you told me not to believe liberal news media. In the end I proved where I got my info: Your own politicians.

Why are you so bent on oil? Do you not see that the same amount of money could get you so much more energy. If you stop depending on oil you won't need to buy it from anyone or destoy your own wilderness to get it. You don't need to buy wind from anyone. Or solar power. They are free as the sky above you.

[FurryCritters]

First of all, terrorists did come through the Canadian border as they did through the Mexican border. You have to be careful which politicians you listen. Second, you aren't even a citizen here, so I really don't care what you think. Go take your soapbox and stand on a street corner where you live and maybe you find someone who is interested. Okay, you are upset about this so called treaty and I am sure you will find out down the line the treaty was not forgotten. Again, be careful who you listen to. The liberals in this country will say anything they can to get an audience and most of the time their info is incorrect. But, as a I can tell you only hear what you want and have selective memory as most liberals do.

I think you need to get a life and let this all go. I keep saying I'm not going to respond anymore and I'm not.

I am sure the person Roberta who answered the first couple of post got tired of all the stupid garbage and never came back.

[Sabriel]

Then stop responding. You don't add much to this tread.

I don't listen to your media or your Liberals. I listen to my media and definatly not outr Liberals. But don't your trust your own Attorney General? I heard calls of standing behind your Commander in Chief. What about his staff. Show me proof! Show me proof this isn't just a way to ignore your own imigration problem. Next you are going to say they were trained to fly planes in Europe.

And I'm very sure a treaty would be easily broken if there was something in it for big business. They love to weasle thier way into politics.

Your own country apologized for the slander they commited agaisnt Canada and Mexico. Who has selective hearing?

[suzy_99]

I hadn't really looked at this thread much because I don't know very much about treaties and stuff. However, I am absolutely shocked at what has gone on in here. There is america-canada bashings all over the place and some of it is very insulting. Such as being called pansies and saying we would hide under our beds.

First of all, I am not a Bush supporter and I was against his reasons for wanting to invade Iraq. I do however support the decision that Suddam had to be removed, but Bush should have just said this instead of claiming WMS. Secondly, we in Canada are involved in numurous peace keeping missions all around the world. Many members of my family are stationned overseas and it is damnright disrespectful for you people to say that they aren't doing anything. You tell that to my cousin who have risked his life in places such as bosnia, egypt, and afganisthan just to protect what little rights those people have. We may not declare war on anyone, but we do help.

I also find it very disrespectful for the Americans here to act like they are the best people in the world and have the best lifestyles. Our countries are not that different. We as people are not that different. I talk to people from the US all of the time and you wouldn't even be able to tell that we are from different country's. I understand that you are proud of your country, but I am proud of mine and I do not like to have all of its people insulted. For the most part, we canadians criticized your politicians and their actions, not you as people, such as you are doing to us.

Anyway, before this I had respect for everyone here, but I must say that I lost that respect for a select few today.

[Sabriel]

I don't care what they think of "us" I'm just tired of the slander that started this in the first place. It really bothers me when people perpetuate the lie that the terrorists came through our boarder (or Mexico's). They didn't. The US apologized, so why bring it up? Why keep pushing it? Because it makes the US feel better. Just admit your mistake and fix it. And not trusting your own documents isn't the way to do it. Just be more careful when you issue them. I feel bad for all the Americans who just got thier documents replaced. Now you all have to pay even more money just to go on vacation. It's like your gov't doesn't want you to travel anymore (or only wants the rich and priviledged to travel)

[Krysanthemum]

Originally Posted by FurryCritters

You aren't even a citizen here, so I really don't care what you think. Go take your soapbox and stand on a street corner where you live and maybe you find someone who is interested.

It is this exact attitude which makes Americans disliked around the world. Not your wealth or prosperity or freedom, it's the holier-than-thou superiority complex from some American citizens which disappoints the rest of the world. Australia has all the benefits America has and more (such as a better health system and social security) but we don't romp around the world telling people how to live their lives or stealing their natural resources.

Secondly, I believe that America (and Australia, in an alliance) invaded Afghanistan in response to 9/11, not Iraq. It has been categorically stated from a number of international sources that there was no connection between the 9/11 bombers and Sadaam. I'm certainly not saying he wasn't a bad man who did horrible things to his own people, but I do not believe that that is a justification for foreign invasion. And I certainly do not believe that it is weakness to say so.

Lastly, I believe in the United Nations. However, like any alliance, it is only as strong as the support is gets from its members. The US government has done its very best to undermine the strength of the UN. I honestly believe that Sadaam should have been dealt with by the UN according to international law, not according to the ulterior motives of the United States government.

* I just want to state once again that I am not talking about all Americans, and certainly do not dislike the American people, just the actions of the American government (just as I dislike many of the actions of my own government). In fact, my father is American and I have family over there. But the words spoken by FurryCritters are the exact type of thing which infuriates both the American allies and enemies. Seriously, that sort of attitude doesn't help anything at all.

[holli'smommy]

I just want to say that yes it is wrong to ignore a treaty, and that drilling oil in Alaska may not be the best thing right now, I really believe that we should find alternate means of energy, especially if it's cheaper. Sabriel is a great debater and I fully respect her opinions, and commend her for defending them so intelligentally on this thread. I enjoyed hearing her side of everything. yes I bashed Canada a little when I said I couldn't wait to invade them, but that was more for giggles than anything, like we'd really invade them, I love Canada, even though I've never actually been there, but it sounds great and they have moose. They also gave us Jim Carrey. So for those who come on and are shocked by what me or Sabriel said, lighten up a little, although I won't include anybody else in that.

[salana]

I think you need to get a life and let this all go. I keep saying I'm not going to respond anymore

I think that's the defining quote of FurryCritters's participation in this thread.

[Sabriel]

It would be a sad sad day if the world stoped having debates. Good debates I mean. Good debates help up make good decisions. Holli'sMommy made some very good points in her favour and when things started to get hairy we both threw a bit of humour in there (I know she didn't mean it about invading Canada. I think our countries got the invasion bug our of our sytems a couple centuries ago. We just tell "Remember when we kicked your butt" stories in history class)

Good debate Holli'sMommy. I needed someone like you on the opposite team in high school law. Then debates would have actually been a challage. A debate only works when advasaries are well matched.