Alaska Oil Drilling

[A4PigHome]

I know we need other sources of oil, but I feel going against a treaty is the wrong way to do it. If other countries feel they can't trust our treaties, then they aren't going to trust us with anything we do. We've basically said "we're liars" by doing this. We've just made our name worse.

The passport issue really sucks. I live only a few hours from Thunder Bay, and one of my family's favorite places to visit is Winnipeg. We are going to try and get a couple trips made up there before we need passports, because otherwise it will cost another $130+ to get passports for our kids. I realize this is just another unfortunate thing that has come out of the 9/11 event. I want to feel safe in my country and when I fly, but this passport issue really bites. However, if it helps keep us safe, then I guess it is for the better. I know this will hurt the Canadians' economy at least some. As an American, I'd just like to say I am very sorry to our Canadian friends on this site.

It seems like I find myself apologizing a lot to my foreign friends. We took a trip to Germany last October. At first we told some people we were Canadians because we were afraid what they would say to us if we told them the truth (We can get away with it because we have picked up the Canadian jargon from living so close to the border). After that we said we were Americans, but in the next breath mentioned that we didn't vote for Bush (which we didn't).

The Germans did treat us well, but did share with us there disgust with Bush and our politics. It's a darn shame that such a good country like ours is disliked by so many. I would like to hope that even the conservatives (many of which are friends of mine) recognize the fact that we must be doing something wrong if so many countries, important countries, feel this way.

[Sabriel]

I don't really see why Americans will need passports to get back in thier own country. Do you guys just not trust the security of your own birth certificates? It's very hard to get a replacement certificate up here. Is it just really easy down there or something. I can see needing a passport for non citizens, but I would be livid if my own country wouldn't let me back home without a passport.

As for the 9/11 terrorists comming through Canada urban legend here it is from your own politicians "McKenna noted former U.S. attorney general John Ashcroft is on the record saying: "None of the terrorists from the Sept. 11 carnage came to the United States through Canada.""

Here's a link to the whole article. I will scan my Toronto Star if you want a second source (that's where I read it)

They came through the *American* immigration program on *valid* visas and were trained at *American* flight schools. I don't like to be mean but this stupid myth has to die. They also didn't come through Mexico. This was entirely an American mistake. No body helped them make it.

I love our new Ambassador in the US. He sure knows how to talk your talk and walk you walk and get exacly what he's going after. Never send a diplomat to do the work of a poltician.

[Access]

"A man named Ahmed Ressam, an Algerian living in Canada, planned to bomb Los Angeles International Airport in Los Angeles, California, United States. He was arrested at the United States-Canada border in Port Angeles, Washington after crossing by ferry on December 14, 1999. Customs officials then found nitroglycerin and four timing devices concealed in a spare tire well of his automobile. He and three other Algerians stood trial for the crime. Ressam began cooperating with investigators in 2001.

Abu Zubdayah seems to have been tangentially involved in approving for this attack as well."

from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_mi...m_attack_plots

This is the case that is often cited by politicians in justifying the need for more border security. This case has nothing to do with 9/11, but this guy could have done pleanty of damage too had he not been caught by customs after crossing.

[Sabriel]

I hate to tell you but the way boarders work is that you get screened after you cross whatever it is you are crossing. At the Windsor-Detroit bridge you pay on your side, cross the bridge and the customs officers check your papers on the other side.

It really doesn't take much to fix that. Just switch the checkpoints, the Americans on our side and the Canadains on your side. They are proposing just that in Windsor. The only thing I don't agree with is the timing. The Americans agreed after we updated the facilities at the bridge and tunnel. The American side is poorly designed and looks terrible. The Canadain side is brand new, beautiful and very well planned. Will they update thier facilities to be on par with the ones we give them or will we have to do that with out tax money?

[A4PigHome]

Yep, we would need our passports to get back into the US, and "yes" I am livid about that.

[Krysanthemum]

It's not even just the 'wacko' countries that hate America anymore, it's also America's allies. The Australian government is bending over backwards to do whatever the Bush government dictates, including agreeing to a Free Trade Agreement that clearly is to the detriment of our farmers and industries, and also supporting a war which the greater majority of Australians do not agree with and do not want to be involved in. Yes, it's our government and we elected them (although I voted for the other lot), but the American attitude towards the rest of the world is not only aggravating opponents but also allies.

The Australian's government's toadying to the Bush administration has actually changed my political affiliation. Previously I was in favour of the Howard government (our Prime Minister is John Howard) but I no longer am, mostly because of the Iraq War and the pathetic way they agree to everything that American says we have to go. Frankly, I'm over it and I'm over the attitude of the Bush government.

I think what Americans in general need to keep in mind is that most people (like myself) strongly dislike the American government but have nothing against the American people as a whole. As for the 'wacko' countries, it is a very small fundamentalist minority which do such disgusting things as bombing your country. However, I believe the American government amplifies the feeling that Americans in general are hated by people in Middle Eastern countries so that their military policies will be supported. But that's just my opinion.

I can empathise with the Canadian position, that they (Canada) and we (Australia) did not get the opportunity to vote for or against the Bush administration but their heavy-handed policies are directly affecting our lives. Once again, that doesn't mean we hate Americans, just the decisions your government makes.

*phew* Sorry, that got long winded. Politics always riles me up.

[Miss Piggy]

Interesting that this topic came up since I am writing a paper about it currently, just started so I don't have MLA quotations yet. But what I do know is:

1) Not really too profitable, with all the building and construction we would have to do in Alaska to tap into the oil it cuts pretty deep into the profits.

2) Strengthens Americas dependence on fossil fuels. Seeing as most of Europe didn't have the luck of getting oil in the first place they improvised and turned to wind power, nuclear ( yeah, I know it's sketchy), dams, and recently hydrogen power,etc. Germany currently produces 8x the amount of wind energy over there as opposed to the USA, and taking into account their significantly smaller size, that is impressive.

3) The wildlife and habitat. I think that speaks for itself.

And I personally don't want those big nasty machines there since they will be screwing up the basins I want to study during Grad school. And besides, that area is going to be home to the" 2012 Testicle Festival of Alaska". I mean, where else are we going to enjoy rocky mountain oysters in the vast state of Alaska now Bush? Yeah, I thought so.

Disclaimer: No, there isn't going to be a 2012 Testicle Festival of Alaska...at least in that area. Just thought I'd lighten the mood. But if you do have a hankering for the delicacy, I know they have a Festival like that in Western Canada sometime around the Rock,Paper, Scissors World Championship. OMG, Canada is awesome.

[holli'smommy]

It's interesting that someone said that we can spread human rights' without war. How? Since nobody has been able to accomplish that in recent years, how is that possible? Was Canada able to free Iraq, without war, without taking out Saddam? I must have missed something, because it took a war to be able to liberate that country. Yes they still have problems, so we do waht Canada does and pull out our troops so that the Iraqi people can be killed by suicide bombers who don't give a damn about them or anyone else?
I lived on a Military Installation in Japan, believe me they have enemies in this world too.
Hey maybe Canada could go down to Cuba and kindly ask Castro to let his people live freely.

[Sabriel]

Iraq is free? You show me a free Iraq and I'll show you guys another country to liberate. I don't consider a country under foreign occupation free and I doubt the US will be able to rebuild it without help. If the US had waited and let the UN do it's job then maybe the US wouldn't have to clean up Iraq alone. Maybe an international solution would be found and maybe people more skilled at toppling dictatorships without harming and gaining the amnosity of the citizens living there could have helped you.

Maybe this would have went over better internationally if the US hadn't lied in the first place. There were no weapons of mass destruction. If the US would have waited, it would have known that. There was no immanent threat to the US so why did it have to strike unilaterally? If they would have waited maybe the whole thing would have gone over better. Maybe Iraq would be free today. And maybe a whole new generation of people in Middle East wouldn't hate you.

Patience is a virtue. Yes a few innocents may have been harmed while you wait, but many more would not have been harmed due to resistance.

When's the last time Canada pulled out troops? We never sent any to Iraq in the first place, and we still have people in Afghanistan long after we were supposed to. Our small military is worn and tired. It is spread very thin. We have people helping many counties. We are trying to help the victims of genocide in Dafur among many other initiatives. We have spread our aid so thin that we have to regroup our efforts and start focusing on 25 countries. Even so, we offered to train Iraqi police officers (out side the Iraq), in spite of the fact that we wanted the US to wait for the UN in the first place.

I'm sorry to say that I just don't agree with many of Bush's decisions. Breaking treaties gets you no where, starting wars with no proof doesn't look very good and the pass port thing makes no sense to me. Sure check our passports all you want but not trusting your own documents? What's a birth certificate worth in the country that issued it won't accept it as ID?

The US doesn't have to take the world's woes on it's shoulders. The world doesn't need or want that. The US should work with the rest of the world to fix problems or the rest of the world will critize you. Sorry, but that's what happens when you go it your own.

[holli'smommy]

The US did wait, they've been waiting for over a decade. Nobody else was willing to step up to the plate. The US didn't lie about WMD, a report came down that said they had them. Suppose they did and we did nothing, Bye Bye US. Irag not a threat to the US? Does 9/11 ring a bell? The people behind those attacks had ties to Saddam. Damn Straight the US was going to take him out. Canada's military is worn thin? Like the US's isn't? My brother just completed a tour of 14 months there, he gets to go back in 2 months. Ours is worn thin too. I stand behind Bush because he is our President, Our Cammader in Chief. So other countries don't like us, this isn't a popularity contest, it's helping people in dangerous situations get out of them. We seem to be the only ones who are willing to get in and make it a priority. When you have as much power as the US has then your going to make enemies. Either way, we would be ctritized for doing what we're doing no matter if we waited or not.

[FurryCritters]

Thank you so much for your post Holli'smommy!

The US is damned if we do and damned if we don't. Countries resent us because of our power, wealth and lifestyle. Yet, who do they go to when they are in trouble? I am so tired of our country be criticized bu the liberals here and the wackos in other countries. Yet, it seems everyone wants to come and live here to benefit from the opportunities we offer - most of all freedom.

You are right - if Iraq did have WMD and we did nothing then we would have everyone blaming us. As far as I am concerned the United Nations is a waste of our money. If anything should be destroy it's them. They never help us, but are the first ones to tell us how much money we need to contribute to some stupid cause in another country. Most of the countries we help have leaders that are living in the lap of luxury, but refuse to take care of their own people, so the burden falls on us.

And yes, so many have forgotten 9/11, even so many who live here. I live in NJ and believe I will never forget. I will never again see the Twin Towers, but most of all the people who were innocently killed. We weren't at war - everyone went to work that day like most of us. No one ever thought jetliners would be flying through those beautiful buildings. Imagine being the ones that survivied the initial impact of those planes only to burn to death. Think about the people in the Pentagon who also went to work that day never to return home to their families or the plane that went down in PA. The people who feel American deserved that terrible day should burn in hell - no one deserves to die for no reason.

And everyone hates America - guess what - I really don't care. I feel privilaged to be able to live here and wouldn't want to live anywhere else.

Most of the countries who didn't support us in the war on Iraq didn't because they were either afraid or had business dealings with Iraq and didn't want to lose them.

I would gladly support taking down every Middle Eastern country that threatens our freedom and safety here in the US. Actually, I should say any country in the world.

[FurryCritters]

Originally Posted by holli'smommy

The US did wait, they've been waiting for over a decade. Nobody else was willing to step up to the plate. The US didn't lie about WMD, a report came down that said they had them. Suppose they did and we did nothing, Bye Bye US. Irag not a threat to the US? Does 9/11 ring a bell? The people behind those attacks had ties to Saddam. Damn Straight the US was going to take him out. Canada's military is worn thin? Like the US's isn't? My brother just completed a tour of 14 months there, he gets to go back in 2 months. Ours is worn thin too. I stand behind Bush because he is our President, Our Cammader in Chief. So other countries don't like us, this isn't a popularity contest, it's helping people in dangerous situations get out of them. We seem to be the only ones who are willing to get in and make it a priority. When you have as much power as the US has then your going to make enemies. Either way, we would be ctritized for doing what we're doing no matter if we waited or not.

One more thing - please give your brother a heart felt thank you from me and all many friends who appreciate what he is doing over there and who support President Bush.

[Sabriel]

Canada would have stood behind you if you had waited. If no one listens to the UN then it will be useless. Canada is commited to seeing the UN work. And for the UN to work in that case, the weapons inspectors had to do thier job first. The inspectors were probably sent on that intelligence.

Bush only seems to jump on intelligence he likes. The 9/11 commision found out that he had completely ingnored a document titled something like "Bin Laden plots to attack important US targets." But since he was on vacation he didn't do much about it. Heck when he was told about 9/11 he sat for about 10 acting like nothing happened. Then when one of his aides poked at him for it, he left the school he was visiting to do something about it.

In Canada if our Prime Minister screws up, we go to the polls. The opposition is going to bring our ruling party down soon over a spending scandal. If our Prime Minister made our country go to war over something that didn't exist, he wouldn't be Prime Minister very long. On the other hand, if he is doing a really good job, he can stay in power for as many terms as he's voted in. We have no lame duck Prime Ministers. It tends to make them work harder.

So other countries don't like us, this isn't a popularity contest,

We've all seen what happens when other countries don't like you. Eventually the radical ones take action. For good or for bad if nobody likes you, then somebody is going to try to knock you guys out. You can achieve your aims without making everyone hate you. But the right way to do something isn't always the quickest way. There were already weapons inspeactors in Iraq. You waited a decade. Would a couple more months do that much more harm. If Saddam wanted to take you out wouldn't he have done it a while ago. That's why it's was called a pre-empitive war. They hadn't done anything to you yet.

I just think that we could get more done if the US didn't just go on it's own when it doesn't like what everybody else wants to do. Nobody else gets thier way all the time. Why should the US?

[Sabriel]

Most of the countries who didn't support us in the war on Iraq didn't because they were either afraid or had business dealings with Iraq and didn't want to lose them.

I would gladly support taking down every Middle Eastern country that threatens our freedom and safety here in the US. Actually, I should say any country in the world.

You realize that a good portion of the oil that goes into supporting your country's lifestyle comes from the Middle East. There are many happy pictures of Bush Sr. and Jr. with wealthy Middle Eastern buisnessmen and leaders.

[holli'smommy]

I saw the video of what Bush did when he was told about 9/11. He did waht any red-blooded American would do, he took a little time to control himself and let the enormity of what happen settle in. He was thinking like a PERSON, I know that's what I did when I was listening to the radio when the second tower was hit, I just sat there completely dumbfounded. He did too, yes he is our President but he is also Human. I don't hink anyone has the right to critize what he did, should he have jumped up all hysterical in the middle of all those kids and caused a panic? Should he have acted out in anger and vengenace, or should he have thought for a few minutes to himself what he should tell his country? I completely stand behind his reaction to the news. All you and Michael Moore are out to do is make him look like some dumb redneck, well guess what, most of this counrty is dumb rednecks, and we're Damn proud of that! ( I'm sorry if I offend anyone out there) But people need to come down off there high horse and realize that someone needs to do something and it once again fell upon the US to do something. And a few months might have done harm, they've been telling us to wait since Bush Sr was in office.

Thanks furrycritters, Damned if You Do, Damned if you don't was exactly what I was trying to say.

[FurryCritters]

Originally Posted by holli'smommy

I saw the video of what Bush did when he was told about 9/11. He did waht any red-blooded American would do, he took a little time to control himself and let the enormity of what happen settle in. He was thinking like a PERSON, I know that's what I did when I was listening to the radio when the second tower was hit, I just sat there completely dumbfounded. He did too, yes he is our President but he is also Human. I don't hink anyone has the right to critize what he did, should he have jumped up all hysterical in the middle of all those kids and caused a panic? Should he have acted out in anger and vengenace, or should he have thought for a few minutes to himself what he should tell his country? I completely stand behind his reaction to the news. All you and Michael Moore are out to do is make him look like some dumb redneck, well guess what, most of this counrty is dumb rednecks, and we're Damn proud of that! ( I'm sorry if I offend anyone out there) But people need to come down off there high horse and realize that someone needs to do something and it once again fell upon the US to do something. And a few months might have done harm, they've been telling us to wait since Bush Sr was in office.

Thanks furrycritters, Damned if You Do, Damned if you don't was exactly what I was trying to say.

I don't put too much stock in what most people say against us, especiall