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  1. #1
    Cavy Slave
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    Star What I learned...

    I am posting this in the kitchen because some of the things I have learned aren't cavy savy. First part is history of the gp's.

    Back in 07, I was given a cute little guinea pig jiggy. I knew nothing, nor did I look forward to a guinea pig. When I passed by my small room and saw this cage on my bed, I finally remembered that I was getting him. Stupid yes, but it didn't last long. I searched the internet, found this website, and learned. I went on the cavy forum and adolpted a sweet old man for jiggy, but they didn't get along. All well! Two small, but bigger than a pet store cages later and they were my soul pets. In early spring of 08, I saw two females on craigs list who were going to be snake food for sure. So, I took them in. Three cages later, My room was FULL.

    The mother of my other girl, Eleanore passed away in the early summer. She had a large belly so I was almost positive it was due to ovarian tumors. She use to be a breeder. Jazz was alone until I moved into the "big" room in august. It is a two bedroom type room where my bed was on side, and my desk and TV on the other. Jazz, Jiggy, and Early all had 2x3's.

    I had an accident in the Christmas of that year. I was baby sitting some guinea pigs while their parents were out for a while. The cage for her two boars were on the floor under jazz's and her cage buddies. Everyone had a clean bill of health as a precaution. The door came off while I was a sleep, and I found jazz and one of her cage mate in the boys cage hiding. The boy's weren't all interested so I thought maybe I was safe. Wrong. Everyone went home except for one of the females who I decided to keep due to jazz playing with her. By Feb of 09, Jazz had a fluffy little girl named Regit. I disapeared due to my senor year of high so the next bit you may not like.

    My views on breeding have stayed the same to an extent since the beginning of time. I hate it. I did not join an amine club because the owner breeds dogs. I told him he was killing dogs, but he just commented, " Females go for 350 a peice. How else am i suppose to pay for college? "

    But..Something has changed with it. In the fall of 09, I took in two ferrets thinking they were rodents. I KNEW they ate kibble, but not of their true diet. After some searches, I came upon a nice ferret forum and attached myself to it for a couple weeks, months. I learned that ferrets were strict carnivores. They were very sickly animals. My views on ferret breeding are mixed.

    You see. Ferrets that are bred for pet stores are almost totally different than privately bred ferrets. They are prone to a lot of sickness's that certian privately bred ferrets rarely ever get, or only have a slim chance of getting. Show dogs don't really get to that point. Show Guinea pigs aren't like that as well. All of my anti breeding statistics that I thought carried over went out the door. I had to rethink my stance against the topic.

    Ferret Farm- Small, More likely to fall ill, Smaller, Birth defects that are caused from the imbred mothers at the ferret farms. Early poor lighting, and Early fix, have been linked to Adrenal Disease, and other issues.

    Privately Bred- Larger, Allowed to stay with mother until months old, or join the group if they are a keeper. From what I saw, They also are a LOT more healthier. They aren't inbred. They aren't the kind of animals people breed in their back yard.

    In the end, I figured out this. I am biased about the topic. I see the reason for breeding in Britain/UK for Ferreting, and the health of the ferret breed. I also see the reason for breeding in the us. The one thing that makes ferret breeding different than certain other breeding animals is the fact that they aren't treated as your typical over breeding pet in a cage. From the 30 odd people on six different forums that I have talked too that breed, The way the ferrets live is incredible. In the Uk, Most breeders have outside garages hooked up to pens. The pens are covered, cemented walled deep into the ground, and are typically Natural. The breeder ferrets almost always eat raw/whole prey. Price range. Ferrets are much more expensive to breed than dogs/cats/suger gliders/ rodents, etc. You have a time frame for breeding females unless you get them fixed, or Jill jabbed. Hob's are the same as a neutered males except for the fact that they "slim" over things as a way of marking their territory. From the breeders I have chatted in my way to understand my kids, I found out that most people only breed for a sport, demand, or for particular colors. They don't give their ferrets out to just anyone ether. People have to sign an agreement to fix the ferret, etc.

    Now for the biased reasons. Over population of ferrets. I have yet to meet a breeder who doesn't think highly of her ferrets, but I'm sure their at least one or two out there who are just basically back yard breeders. People are stupid... I would not buy a privately bred ferret unless I was given one, but I am not exactly against ferret breeding. I see the pro's, and I honestly like them.

    I still do not breed for most animals. Ferrets just seem to be a little different than your averge pets.

    Now for my second topic of the day. Whole Prey/Raw. I found this wonderful forum that deals with Ferrets Holistically. It opened my eyes to the amazing changes you see in a ferret who is fed holisticaly. No chemical flea repellents, Raw meat, Whole prey, and other techniques. I wasn't happy about the whole prey until I tried it with a pre killed mouse. After a few weeks, Everyone's coat just blossomed. No kibble could do what actually meat did to my guys.

    yes, I now breed mice for my ferrets, but it is a holistic way of breeding that I swear too. I would rather have my mice in the best conditions than in a pet store with poor care. Home mix foods based off other holistic breeders. Cooked clean dirt without any additions as bedding. They also have two wheels, and are in one of those long, long, winter storage plastic tubs with a screen stapled to the top of the lid. Air wize? I don't have issues with fog like in glass tanks. I'm guessing because I have 4 females- 1 male in that big of a tank. They normal use one side for nesting. For treats and stimulation, I hide meal worms, crickets, or other bugs for them to find. These critters aren't bred at my place as I don't have the room, but they are the only ingredient that I don't know where it came from. What ever goes into my mice, I want it to be safe for the ferrets. I do not sell my mice as they are just enough to add an extra meat for my guys. I would rather it be this way.

    Life wise? The mice have it going. I handle them, and try to enrich their lives as much as possible. The killing part happens when a litter is weaned, moved into the weaning Ben which is smaller, but with the same features. I have a small Co2 system that I use. Lelloo is the only ferret our of nine that really does a quick kill so she get's a few live mice for her own enrichment. I also don't waste life. At first there was a little waste with the ferrets not eating a lot, but I have found out how much of what each fuzzy usually eats. They are on feeding schedule so I know how much bone ratio, organ meat, etc to give them each week.

    Not all of my guys are full blown meat eaters, but they get meat some way. Whole prey/Raw is the best thing for my oldest boy who has insulinoma. My adrenal boy is only just starting to like raw soup, or my holistic version of duk soup. Four out of nine have yet to really eat raw, and you can tell the difference. Lelloo's fur is fluffy even in the summer with a wonderful coat color that has come out a lot since she started eating the food. Dakota, who isn't sick and is the same year as lelloo, has a decent, but not as brilliant coat.

    So what have I learned? I am in love with ferrets. Unlike gp's, They play with you, share time with you, and seemingly are smarter than gp's, or other rodent like pets. I will always like my gp's, but I don't think I will be getting any more. They have taught me ALOT, but ferrets carried me farther.

    An update on my GP status. Jazz passed away late last year after falling ill. The vet was not sure what was wrong and put her on an iv. But while studying blood work, She slipped away. A week before, Tiger, who I had re homed due to financial issues and fighting with jazz back in Feb of 09, came back due to family issues with her owner. I was skeptic about jazz and tiger being together, but all three hit it off great. Tiger was Regits unrelated aunt. After jazz passed away, I was so happy that tiger was their for regit. It helped her grieving process. I did place jazz by regit to allow her to sniff, and understand that she was gone.

    In late December my pay checks were falling, and I was having an issue affording the kids. I had to wisely choose what's to happen. I ended up choosing to re home the boys to Earlies original owner who was the only previously owners of all the animals I trusted, and I had to think quick. Vet bills were piling up quick. I get emails every month on how they are, and they are doing great. Early did fall ill shortly after which made me feel horrible because he didn't show any signs before hand. He's back and running now though. So I have tiger and regit in a 2x4 and a loft that they don't use. They are in one room. The ferrets have their own room.

    So that's what I have learned, and also an update on whats been going on. The reason why I didn't give away a ferret is not because i like them more. It is because I don't trust anyone to actually take care of them and to contuie their diets. All of my guys are from around here, and were poorly kept until they came to me. Everyone has a partner, or three. It would of just been chaos to split the group up.

  2. "Thank you, AnimalFarm2006, for this useful post," says:

    SnowPrincess (04-24-10)

  3. #2
    Pigaholic Extraordinaire Paula's Avatar
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    Re: What I learned...

    I presume that ferret breeding, like any other type of animal breeding, is a delicate thing that can be done responsibly, and can be done right, but that those who are actually responsible, or who actually care about the animals over a quick buck, are few and far between.

    I'm uncertain what you hoped to accomplish by posting about it and your new found views on ferret breeding here, but if you've found a forum you like with members you believe adhere to standards in their breeding practices, good for you. Remember - you're always going to be able to find people who breed that claim they care more about the enrichment of the animals and their care than anything else. You're also always going to be able to find people who claim to be responsible. Whether or not it's true - who knows?

    I find it slightly disturbing that between the "Fall of 09" and now - the Spring/Summer of 10, you've acquired 9 ferrets, not to mention you did so while having enough financial distress to necessitate rehoming other animals.

    Lelloo is the only ferret our of nine that really does a quick kill...
    And I don't even really want to think of the suffering of the animals that weren't killed quickly by other ferrets so that you could learn that Lelloo is the only one who kills them quickly enough to make feeding them live remotely humane.

  4. "Thank you, Paula, for this useful post," say these 12 members:

    1frankie7 (12-04-10), Aertyn (04-24-10), ChangeOfPace (12-03-10), GPigsRSweet (04-23-10), JenKY (04-23-10), Ly&Pigs (04-23-10), Peggysu (04-23-10), PiggiePaws (04-23-10), rabbitsncavyluv (04-23-10), Rnd210 (12-04-10), sdpiggylvr (04-23-10), tabikat55 (12-03-10)

  5. #3
    Cavy Slave bamby71994's Avatar
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    Re: What I learned...

    Quote Originally Posted by Paula View Post
    I find it slightly disturbing that between the "Fall of 09" and now - the Spring/Summer of 10, you've acquired 9 ferrets, not to mention you did so while having enough financial distress to necessitate rehoming other animals.

    And I don't even really want to think of the suffering of the animals that weren't killed quickly by other ferrets so that you could learn that Lelloo is the only one who kills them quickly enough to make feeding them live remotely humane.
    I completely agree, and why would you want to get 9 ferrets, insane especially when you had financial problems. I can't believe that you handle the mice before you kill them. You are worse than a breeder, you are able to look at animals as if they are not even animals anymore! How you can raise them and handle them that amazes me, and disgusts me!

  6. "Thank you, bamby71994, for this useful post," says:

    Catayn (12-03-10)

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    Cavy Slave
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    Re: What I learned...

    Quote Originally Posted by bamby71994 View Post
    I completely agree, and why would you want to get 9 ferrets, insane especially when you had financial problems. I can't believe that you handle the mice before you kill them. You are worse than a breeder, you are able to look at animals as if they are not even animals anymore! How you can raise them and handle them that amazes me, and disgusts me!

    Wait a minute. I think the animals are being looked at as animals. I know the new politically correct thing is to turn animals into fur-people, but some of these creatures have a purpose. And sometimes those purposes are for food.
    Why not enjoy the mice before they are used for their purpose? It's not as if they're sitting in their cage counting down the minutes before they're ferret food...

  8. "Thank you, Genipher, for this useful post," say these 3 members:

    AnimalFarm2006 (12-03-10), ferndalezoo (04-25-10), SnowPrincess (04-26-10)

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    Cavy Slave
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    Re: What I learned...

    Okay the reason for this post is to educate everyone that having ferrets IS a big deal. They can't be treated any less than an ombligated carnivor and should have a NATURAL diet.

    Second, Lelloo was only allowed live when my co2 levels in my tank was too low to do a clean kill. My ice stuff had ran out and I had only like two small peices left to use. Stores were clossed and so I have 9 hungry weasels waiting on dinner when I hadn't been able to go shopping. Bad decision on my part which I now have a pre-packaged meal plan for everyone. She did the killing of all that nights dinner, and saved the day. I know live less than 5 minuets away from a 24/7 wally so no issues with running out. ^.^

    And just as an addition. The fall of 09 was the same time I did not get any more. My last one came when pay checks were going great and than the extreme rescue boy came in the spring when things picked back up with an additional second job. You read wrong about the nine. I now have nine, and had 5 before the fall of 09. Would you rather me give them all back to the people who : A. Kept them with rabbits. B. kept them with absolutely no love C. Or basiclly had no place to live.

    It was ether let the boys go to a orignal home that I know is FROM HERE, or give the ferrets back to the owners who abandonded them to me in the first place. Pick the poison.

    I now am secure with the weasels money wise. Each dollor that is saved is put up for the emergencies I see in the future. I am taking vet tech courses in college to further my knoledge on medical advise for these guys.

    In spring of 10, I got a boy who was on deaths door. I knew him before this lady got him and she was just another collector. Dingo took all of my funds for the entire spring untill his adrenal disease leveled out. He and my other old man with adrenal and insulnioma are best freinds. They never leave each others side. When one goes to the vet, The other follows to calm each other down.
    With his medical issues, I opted to learn from my vet how to due sub-q fluids, taking temp correctly, spending every waking moment holding him, feeding him, and just trying to give him the will to live through this disease. So now I know certian medical praticises to be prepaired for any issues. Ferrets are animals that you HAVE to learn how to mend or be pre-paired to suffer. Every little medical information and techniques you know can give you the advantage in a insulinoma crash...

    It also saves money to be able to have the stuff on hand to treat at home and take to the vet for check-ups. My lab instructor has been suprissed that i knew how to draw blood, start a drip, and learn how to handle wiggling animals in one hand, a medical device in the other.

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    Pigaholic Extraordinaire Paula's Avatar
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    Re: What I learned...

    I'm not sure why you opted to come back to this nearly eight months after the fact, but I'm glad things are a little more secure for you now.

    Quote Originally Posted by AnimalFarm2006 View Post
    So now I know certian medical praticises to be prepaired for any issues. Ferrets are animals that you HAVE to learn how to mend or be pre-paired to suffer.
    Having to do subcues, hand feeding, or taking temps at home is one thing and you're right, it is indeed a fantastic idea to educate yourself on how to do those things properly, with small animals like ferrets and guinea pigs especially. It is quite a different scenario if you are opting to diagnose and treat things on your own, regardless of the knowledge you may have obtained through tech courses and your own experience. I certainly hope you don't mean to imply that you feel you are capable of diagnoses and treatment of maladies and other conditions that absolutely require a qualified veterinarian's attention.

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    Cavy Slave
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    Re: What I learned...

    I brought it back just because I had disapered and never answerred the questions. Sorry!

    No no no way will i say that ferret has this!!! Only after dingo came to me with adrenal that I learned to give him fluids to keep him alive. I am merely a nurse in training not a doctor.

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    Cavy Slave MaryGoodnight's Avatar
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    Re: What I learned...

    I agree with you about responsible breeding, my rats are from a breeder but only for health reasons. I started with feeders, worked my way to lab rats and now I get them from breeders. They've never even sniffled once. I don't agree with you about the prey diet. It made me sick to my stomach. I have two cats and I would never feed them live....not to mention my cats hate prey. Cyril has killed me a few wild things before but he never eats them himself he doesn't care too and Qat can't hunt to save her life I love her dearly but she just gets confused. She can find "prey" but then she just kinds of watches it. I've heard of rats that have injured reptiles to save their own lives and because the owner was dumb enough to feed them live animals. In my case encouraging a carnivore to hunt just feet away from my herbivores seems like a very very bad idea.

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