Hot in the Kitchen

[VoodooJoint]

I’m putting this straight into "the kitchen" as it may become heated and at the least is about heated subjects

I need to know proper procedure. When someone comes on asking for advice or to tell a story and it becomes fairly obvious that their pet is either being neglected, they seem uneducated about breeding, pet shops, whatever... BUT the "issue" has nothing to do with the question asked or story told...should we address it?

Some people seem to feel that we should "Just answer the persons question and move on" or that we should not let the thread get off topic. Others, like me, feel that the issue should be addressed. After all if they want a board that will look the other way, or even offer advice, on breeding and neglecting their pet they are out there. I know I have been kicked off my fair share for trying to educate.

If education, even if it’s off topic, is becoming frowned on I for one would like to know. I don’t want to feel I must defend myself from the moderators. If I wanted that I would be posting on CaviesGalore. GameDog.com, GameRooster.com and the likes of those.

[Access]

Originally Posted by voodoojoint

I’m putting this straight into "the kitchen" as it may become heated and at the least is about heated subjects

I need to know proper procedure. When someone comes on asking for advice or to tell a story and it becomes fairly obvious that their pet is either being neglected, they seem uneducated about breeding, pet shops, whatever... BUT the "issue" has nothing to do with the question asked or story told...should we address it?

The site itself is a great resource. Often times people are simply ignorant or don't know better, not realizing they are hurting their pig. There's no real reason to repeat the information on the site, IMO the best thing to do is post links to the relevant sections of the site and have them read those links as a precondition to actual debate. There is no sense in trying to educate someone online who is going to fight it, they'll just leave or try to cause trouble. I'd rather spend time with my pig than argue online to no end.

[suzy_99]

I have no problem with people trying to educate neglecting or just new guinea pig owners, but before we go into that I beleive it would be proper of us to first answer the question at hand and them give them our opinion on how they are caring for their guinea. People will be more likely to listen to your side of view if you truly show an interest in trying to help them. Also, answering their question, even though it may get heated afterwards, would make it more likely that that particular person will come back to this site for more information, which gives us even more chances to try an educate them, instead of just the one thread that drives them away.

[Sparky]

i agree, answer the question, then give them your two cents, and try to be polite

[critterlover]

I think it's important to focus on the question being asked, then add a small amount of extra 'education' if you must. Otherwise, you might end up driving people away. The main thing to remember is that in most cases the owner doesn't know any better and that politeness is key.

[pennick]

I agree, answer the question first, then make sure you have all the facts before you give your 2 cents. Sometimes people misinterpret what the posting is about or doesnt ask the poster for further info before confirming that she or he is indeed neglectful. Then once we have all the facts, its fine to say in a nice way how you feel and try to educate them. If the poster is not interested in what we have to offer and it does become hostile I feel its better to move on.

[VoodooJoint]

Okay, let me clarify. I believe the question asked should be answered. However, I also believe that while I have the person’s attention I should address the "issue" as well. Here are two recent examples of posts...I’m not trying to start and argument with these...just using them for examples

"How to unspoil a Pig" http://cavycages.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4983 The person asked what they can do to cut down on what they believe is spoiled wheeking. Many people (including me) thinks that the pig is lonely more then spoiled. In this case the underlying issue has quite a lot to do with the problem. There was a small argument/debate going on about it.

"Hand Feeding" http://cavycages.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5036

I tried to answer the question at hand but didn’t yet go into the possible underlying issue (breeding). The reason I haven’t asked about whether or not this was an intentional breeding is because at the moment keeping the Chin babies alive is much more important. One has already died and this person needs to concentrate on feeding the chins around the clock. I would like to know more about how these babies came to be in the first place though.

Let me also clarify that I don’t think "hostile" is ever appropriate (unless someone is outright and knowingly abusing an animal). Unfortunately, many people have different ideas of what constitutes "hostile". Some feel it is a strongly given opinion like "Spay her now and stop contributing to the animal overpopulation problem." Others (like me) feel it gets hostile when name calling starts or generic threats are made...until that point I feel it is simply debate.

Let the discussion continue.....

[pennick]

How to unspoil a pig.........A simple question was asked. We all favored a 2nd piggy and told her. However SOME posters were very adament about it, one was downright nasty. Uncalled for. I suggested a 2nd piggy even in her small cage. Everyone should have stood behind me, instead many started giving opinions on 3x4 with 2 piggies. It seems people are not happy unless they find something wrong. We all know that 3x4 for 2 piggies are a little small.........SO WHAT......we all wanted her to get another piggy so why harp on the smaller size. Better to have another piggy. I suggested that she build up if she couldnt build out. Once again, posters started giving opinions on that subject......come on........Dumpling was thinking about building up, she stated so......at that time we should all have tried gently to convince her yes build up and get her a 2nd piggy. Instead some posters started talking about moving furniture. Once again they missed the mark. If everyone is going to be so rigid in their thinking, robot like in my opinion, how do you all expect to help anyone. Instead of us looking for the positive in a person and expounding on that, we tend to rip the poster apart.

[suzy_99]

I personally believe that it can become hostile when people start giving orders instead of opinions. The statement that was written above "Spay her now and stop contributing to animal overpopulation problem" is a direct order and some people may not take well to it. It is also a personal attack in a sense, because this person is being told that they are the problem (even though it may be true). I personally have no problem with it, but I have noticed that some take it very personally. I believe that best way to start a discussion like this is to give your opinion in a very calm and helpful way (Like, "you should spay her, so as to help stop animal overpopulation") and if that gets absolutely no reaction then go into the more strong opinions. I have read to many threads where the second post is an order that sounds quite hostile. This is not the way to educate people.
I also believe that if a person is intentionally abusing there animals, they deserve all they get, but this is not the case with owners who just don't know better. Would you not get kinda defensive if people started telling you that you are a terrible owner and that you are hurting your animals?
.

[Smudger]

Originally Posted by suzy_99

I have read to many threads where the second post is an order that sounds quite hostile. This is not the way to educate people.
I also believe that if a person is intentionally abusing there animals, they deserve all they get, but this is not the case with owners who just don't know better. Would you not get kinda defensive if people started telling you that you are a terrible owner and that you are hurting your animals?
.

Couldn't agree more-well said suzy!

As much as I find the different smiley icons to be a bit cheesey, they are often very helpful in a text only medium to set the tone of a post-a little happy/angry icon at the start of a post is good for removing most doubt surrounding the tone of that post.

To address voodoojoint's original question, I believe you should address an issue (if it wasn't the subject of the post) if it helps to safeguard the well-being of a guinea. A lot of posters come here wanting the best for their guineas without fully knowing what that entails, and most are grateful for the advice (depending on whether it's put across as friendly advice or a direct 'barked' order)-those that don't want to hear it, well, it's better to have tried and failed than to have not tried at all.

I don't believe you should wait to address a particular issue, because chances are if the person is doing something wrong (unintentionally) then they aren't aware of it so will never bring it up themselves-meaning they would never get the advice they need. I think it's safe to assume that 99% of the time, people are here because they want the best for their pigs, so as long as any advice given is done so in a friendly manner they will probably be receptive to it.

The example pennick gave about the poster who got told to move furniture struck a chord with me, because I too have limited space and there was nothing I could do to change that, and pennick is right-some people are almost robot like in their thinking. They read that 'a guinea's home should be 'x' amount of feet', and that's as far as they go-rather than consider that (for example) it's better to have a rescue cavy in a home that is a foot undersize than a cavy still in a rescue centre who may not ever get a home, they just jump on what they see as a great wrong doing, and blow it all out of proportion. I personally believe that as long as the home isn't small to the point of being cruel, and as long as the cavy(ies) get plenty of floortime, then no harm done.

Everybody has different opinions, just because they are different to our own doesn't automatically make them wrong, and if they are, you stand a better chance of getting your point across if the person doesn't feel like they are being accused or blamed.

[Ly&Pigs]

Ok, here are my opinions on this. Answer the question they are asking first and foremost. If they are asking "when will my guinea pig have it's babies?" then either tactfully answer the question or refer them to links such as the gl breeding info link or the cavyspirit breeding info link. Don't start assuming things unless you know the facts. Don't list 20 reasons not to breed if you don't know whether it was an accidental pregnancy or an intentional one. Sometimes asking questions yourselves to the poster will help you get a much clearer idea of what the big picture is. So if they don't say "it was an accidental pregnancy", just ask if it was or not. If the response is that it was intentional, then give them the 20 reasons not to breed but do it tactfully please.

If a poster asks about veggies, don't assume that their pig is being neglected if it isn't getting the right kinds of veggies. Ask what different veggies they are feeding then give supplemental info on more types of veggies that can be fed.

If a poster says "I have a pet store cage..." don't immediately start jumping down their throat to build a C&C. Give them a list of reasons why their pig should be in a C&C cage and a list of reasons why they don't need to be in a pet store cage.

As far as medical advice, Guinealynx is far more qualified than we are to give advice on medical issues because they have a large amount of rescuers/fosters that deal with the medical issues. For mites, I give the links to gl mite info. This is just me, but I get so sick of seeing "take them to the vet ASAP" on mite questions. Mites can be treated effectively at home if you follow the instructions at gl. I can see where someone would be told to take them to the vet in case of a URI or other medical issues and I often tell them that.

I believe education is the key, but it's better to educate in the way of friendly advise than ordering someone to do something.

[All4Cavies]

Perfectly said Ly... I couldnt agree more!