Adopt vs. Buy: Adopted (yes, adopted) from PetSmart

[Shawnee]

This is honestly ridiculous. People really need to stop with the personal attacks. There is a difference between stating your opinion, and attacking another member. Once your opinion is stated, there is no need to go on attacking who ever may feel differently.

Personally, Yoshi you are wonderful, it was great of you to help the pigs out. The pigs were already replaced. They would have died in those tiny drawers. She was not contributing to the breeding at all. THEY WERE ALREADY REPLACED! It is not like she saw them for display and could not help herself. Just because she took them out of the drawers does not mean that she was making more room for pigs to be put in those drawers. I'm sure if Petsmart wanted to they could find more drawers to put pigs in if she hadn't taken them.

People think about the pigs. She rescued them, that is what she did. Are you going to condemn everyone who rescues pigs, no! Just because it wasn't an official shelter doesn't mean she is a bad person for taking some initiative. Say someone wants to rescue piggies from a place where they are being neglected and bred. They pay no charge for the pigs. Then those breeders go out and get more. It is not the adopters fault. They did what they could for the pigs they could when they could.

[blackarrow]

Originally Posted by Shawnee

This is honestly ridiculous. People really need to stop with the personal attacks. There is a difference between stating your opinion, and attacking another member. Once your opinion is stated, there is no need to go on attacking who ever may feel differently.

Personally, Yoshi you are wonderful, it was great of you to help the pigs out. The pigs were already replaced. They would have died in those tiny drawers. She was not contributing to the breeding at all. THEY WERE ALREADY REPLACED! It is not like she saw them for display and could not help herself. Just because she took them out of the drawers does not mean that she was making more room for pigs to be put in those drawers. I'm sure if Petsmart wanted to they could find more drawers to put pigs in if she hadn't taken them.

People think about the pigs. She rescued them, that is what she did. Are you going to condemn everyone who rescues pigs, no! Just because it wasn't an official shelter doesn't mean she is a bad person for taking some initiative. Say someone wants to rescue piggies from a place where they are being neglected and bred. They pay no charge for the pigs. Then those breeders go out and get more. It is not the adopters fault. They did what they could for the pigs they could when they could.

If you're talking about me, I'm not "condemning" them, nor have I personally attacked either one of them. I do have a problem with them calling this an "adoption." I certainly don't give a hoot that this wasn't an "official shelter." I DO give a hoot that it was a PET STORE. Who do you suppose will "rescue" the next batch that will be in the exact same position?

For what it's worth, I disagree with your notion of getting pigs free from a breeder who continues to breed as being "rescue," and for the same reasons.

[Shawnee]

Originally Posted by blackarrow

If you're talking about me, I'm not "condemning" them, nor have I personally attacked either one of them. I do have a problem with them calling this an "adoption." I certainly don't give a hoot that this wasn't an "official shelter." I DO give a hoot that it was a PET STORE. Who do you suppose will "rescue" the next batch that will be in the exact same position?

For what it's worth, I disagree with your notion of getting pigs free from a breeder who continues to breed as being "rescue," and for the same reasons.

I am not only talking about you. So you keep mentioning the next batch. When someone rescues a pig from a shelter does it become their responsibility to rescue ALL the pigs from that shelter? No. She rescued two pigs. I am sure Petsmart has been doing this for years. She is in no way enabling them by rescuing 2 piggies that were practically living in their grave. If she hadn't rescued them Petsmart wouldn't do anything differently. They would throw the carcasses in the trash and put more pigs in there when they were too old, like they've done for years.

[blackarrow]

Originally Posted by Shawnee

I am not only talking about you.

OK, since you are talking about me (in addition to unnamed others) please be so kind as to point out where exactly I have made some sort of a personal attack on anyone.

Originally Posted by Shawnee

So you keep mentioning the next batch. When someone rescues a pig from a shelter does it become their responsibility to rescue ALL the pigs from that shelter? No.

Precisely. The people who adopt from a shelter do nothing which makes it more likely for other pigs to need a shelter, thus they are under no moral obligation to do anything additionally. People who get pigs from a pet store ARE doing something which makes it more likely that other pigs will end up in the pet store, and thus arguably they ARE under such a moral obligation.

Originally Posted by Shawnee

If she hadn't rescued them Petsmart wouldn't do anything differently. They would throw the carcasses in the trash and put more pigs in there when they were too old, like they've done for years.

Possibly. Another possibility is that this could have been reported and the ENTIRE CYCLE of them doing this to any animals could have been broken.

[blackarrow]

Originally Posted by AmandaErlandson

Sorry my bad, you are right. I just double checked & I had the wrong section. I was in such a hurry to prove my point that I looked in the wrong place. Sincerely sorry.

Thank you for the acknowledgement, but no apology necessary, easy to make the mistake.

[Shawnee]

Originally Posted by blackarrow

Precisely. The people who adopt from a shelter do nothing which makes it more likely for other pigs to need a shelter, thus they are under no moral obligation to do anything additionally. People who get pigs from a pet store ARE doing something which makes it more likely that other pigs will end up in the pet store, and thus arguably they ARE under such a moral obligation.

How exactly is she making it so that more pigs need a shelter? They pigs were already replaced on the floor. If she hadn't adopted them and more pigs were damaged goods, Petsmart would find more drawers and eventually they would die. The pigs were already out of the cycle. Her rescuing them did not make more room for Petsmart to get more, it cost them money. So how?

[Pulsepoint129]

Originally Posted by blackarrow

I don't see anything at all which suggests that the original poster thinks there's anything wrong at all with getting pigs from pet stores, at least as long as one gets one on the cheap.

I honestly don't know what to think regarding that... I don't feel like I have enough sufficient information from the original poster to say one way or the other. *shrug*

[Shawnee]

Originally Posted by Pulsepoint129

I honestly don't know what to think regarding that... I don't feel like I have enough sufficient information from the original poster to say one way or the other. *shrug*

I love how laid back you are. After all the tension going around, your post made me laugh.

[blackarrow]

Originally Posted by Shawnee

How exactly is she making it so that more pigs need a shelter? They pigs were already replaced on the floor. If she hadn't adopted them and more pigs were damaged goods, Petsmart would find more drawers and eventually they would die. The pigs were already out of the cycle. Her rescuing them did not make more room for Petsmart to get more, it cost them money. So how?

I never said they was making it so more pigs need a shelter. And I'm not limiting it to the original posters. Anyone who takes an actual pet store pig off a pet store's hands at the behest of the pet store is doing the pet store a favor, regardless of whether they pay cash for it or not. If the pet store DIDN'T think there was something in it for the pet store, they wouldn't have been giving the pigs away. The original posters taking the pigs didn't cost Petsmart a dime - they've said several times it was a writeoff.

If you're not going to answer my question about what I said to anyone that was a personal attack I would appreciate it if you would retract that statement. Thanks in advance.

[blackarrow]

Originally Posted by Pulsepoint129

I honestly don't know what to think regarding that... I don't feel like I have enough sufficient information from the original poster to say one way or the other. *shrug*

Well, seeing as they've been heatedly defending their actions for quite some time now and suggesting I'm some sort of animal hater for thinking there was a better option, I'm not sure what more information you could possibly require.

[Shawnee]

Originally Posted by blackarrow

I'm sorry you've managed to convince yourself that your deceased pig would have wanted you to get pigs from a pet store.

This would be a personal and bellow the belt attack

[Shawnee]

Originally Posted by blackarrow

Like any real animal lover would.

As is this.

[Shawnee]

Originally Posted by blackarrow

Precisely. The people who adopt from a shelter do nothing which makes it more likely for other pigs to need a shelter, thus they are under no moral obligation to do anything additionally. People who get pigs from a pet store ARE doing something which makes it more likely that other pigs will end up in the pet store, and thus arguably they ARE under such a moral obligation.

This statement is saying that she is making it so more pigs need a shelter.

[blackarrow]

Oh, good, Yoshi, I'm glad to see there is something about my last post with which you disagree. Thank you. I'd certainly like to think Pulsepoint was right.

[Pulsepoint129]

Originally Posted by blackarrow

Well, seeing as they've been heatedly defending their actions for quite some time now and suggesting I'm some sort of animal hater for thinking there was a better option, I'm not sure what more information you could possibly require.

See, this is exactly why I'm no good with politics... because I'm always a very moderate person. I can never choose a certain side.


Black Arrow, I agree with you; but I can also see the perspective and acknowledge that the original poster, however misguided his/her actions may have been, was to try and do some good in the animal world. If she had been a teeny-bopper, tween, or child that just became inspired by Dr.Doolittle or G-Force or otherwise saw a friend's guinea pig and instantly fell in love and walked into a pet shop with the sole intention of buying a guinea pig regardless of the conditions or the motives behind the corporate pet industry, then believe me, my blood pressure would be well above normal. Am I saying that it makes it any more better? No. I'm just saying that, as far as what I personally read and analyzed, (and without further information other than the bantering back and forth between differences of opinion) I still can't see sufficient evidence in either direction to determine whether she was a proponent or opponent of financially supporting a pet store. I apologize if I appear to be blind or otherwise neutral (I.E., I'm not disagreeing or agreeing with either your or the above poster) but my main goal here is not to praise him/her; my main goal is not to advocate rescuing (as there are countless posts and stickies which already have that goal, and I am NOT a moderator so I will not try and post as one). My goal simply was to tell her that, while it was a noble and selfless act of kindness to take in two animals that were more or less condemned to death... the pet store was only going to end up doing this over and over and over again. And THAT, Black Arrow, IS something that I am whole-heartedly behind everyone here about. The Original Poster seems to be fairly new here though, and I'm not going to jump to conclusions one way or another on how she may or may now have felt favorably on pet stores and/or rescues. Hope that makes sense.

[blackarrow]

Originally Posted by Shawnee

This statement is saying that she is making it so more pigs need a shelter.

No, it simply isn't, you're misreading it, and I don't know why.

[blackarrow]

Originally Posted by Shawnee

As is this.

Shawnee, you seem to have missed my post in which I pointed out that comment was made in response to Amanda's post, not Yoshi's post. I wasn't talking about or to Yoshi at all.

[blackarrow]

Originally Posted by Shawnee

This would be a personal and bellow the belt attack

It's a rephrasing of the original poster's own statement.

[blackarrow]

Originally Posted by Pulsepoint129

I can never choose a certain side.

Black Arrow, I agree with you; but I can also see the perspective and acknowledge that the original poster, however misguided his/her actions may have been, was to try and do some good in the animal world.

I don't think there is the slightest need to choose a side here. I've said several times already I have no doubt the original posters had good intentions. I have absolutely no doubt they didn't reach the conclusions I have about the repercussions of their decision. I wish intentions ultimately made a difference in situations like these, I really do.

[Bamysmum]

I started off reading this thread as a nice story of some lucky guineas - I see it's quickly descended into a long and heated discussion as best way to handle the evils of the pet industry which I think we can all agree is dreadful.

I just wanted to add my 5c so to speak because I wanted to thank the original poster for the sharing their experience and to hear that there are 2 guineas who got lucky and were taken to a nice home. I hear, see and experience so many horrible things that I'm grateful to read that somewhere some creature got a break.