Adopt vs. Buy: concerns with local rescues

[heartpiggies]

I am currently searching for a buddy for my beloved pig Gary. I acquired him from someone on CL whose son was allergic to him. I know not to purchase animals from a pet store and I was having trouble finding a suitable partner on CL so I looked at some local rescues. I was a little peeved at what I found. The major recue in my area is a large, popular one with a regularly updated website. They seem to have a steady supply of really beautiful pigs for adoption. The thing is, they charge exactly the same "adoption fee" as the major pet store chains in town. They want $35 for one pig or $50 for two and they vigorously push adopting a pair, even if you already have a pig/s at home. In my area you can find a rescue pig on CL with a cage and accessories for $40 or so. I understand that they have costs they need to cover but the same could be argued for the pet stores. I just don't understand charging that much for rescued pigs who supposedly have nowhere else to go. It makes me not want to adopt from them because I wonder what their intentions really are. I'm willing to bet they are profiting off of these animals and, to me, that is not a rescue operation but a pet store whether you call it that or not. What do you guys think about this?

[Holly&Fred]

Most of the time the rescues that have such high fees do so because the pigs they adopt out, at certain rescues, get a vet visit (or you sometimes get a certificate for a free vet visit) and, depending on the rescue, might even be fixed by the rescue before they are adopted out, in addition to the regular food/care costs. I don't know what rescue you're looking at, but you might consider checking to see exactly what kind of treatment the pigs get before they are adopted out to see where that fee might be coming from. The pet stores that charge that much do not provide vet care, and usually you'll have to pay for it later anyways because of the conditions their pigs are kept in.

Yes adoption fee from rescues can sometimes seem high, but if you do find that their pigs get vet care before being adopted out, you'll find that because of the costs of vet visits, you're not paying much for the actual pig. I thought the same thing at first, but then I looked at it and realized that they were charging about the cost it is for me to take my pig to the vet, and if I got one from any other source it would get a precautionary vet visit shortly after I got it, so it evens out depending on what care the rescue provides.

I'm sorry, I hope that's clear. Just check into what the rescue is actually providing for the pigs (between food, employees, possible vet care, etc.) to see where your money is going.

[lissie]

I think it's best that you visit the rescue and see for yourself how the pigs are kept. Most petstores don't feed them proper diet, they hardly give them any veggies nor hay. Petstore pigs are kept 10 or more in an aquarium or a tiny cage. Rescued pigs live in pairs in recommended size cages that meet GPC cage standards, received vet care and proper diet that includes high quality pellets, hay and veggies. They may try to adopt out pigs in pairs because the pigs are bonded. I’ve been to some of the rescues in my area and I am really amazed on how the pigs are treated. The rescue feed them Oxbow pellets and Kleenmama hay/mix with local orchard hay. Some pigs in the rescue may also need vet care more than others. So when you’re paying the adoption fee, you’ll be paying to help out other pigs in the rescue, not just the pigs you adopt.

[tree_hugger]

Originally Posted by heartpiggies

they charge exactly the same "adoption fee" as the major pet store chains in town. They want $35 for one pig or $50 for two and they vigorously push adopting a pair, even if you already have a pig/s at home. In my area you can find a rescue pig on CL with a cage and accessories for $40 or so. I understand that they have costs they need to cover but the same could be argued for the pet stores.

Just wanted to address this - petstores' costs include funding breeders to continue their practice, the bare minimum of care for their animals and profit.

Rescues' costs include vet care (often extensive) as well high standard food and housing for their animals.

I have a rescue pig in my care at present who's vet bills are already over AU$100 and not finished yet. All that is from my own pocket.

If you have to spend the same amount whether you buy from a petstore or adopt from a rescue, why not choose the ethical option?

[Tessa Bea]

I paid 50 dollars for my three pigs, which was a steal to me considering that they'd all been at the rescue over a year, and the male was neutered. When you consider how much rescues put into the health and care of the pigs they have, 25 dollars wouldn't even break even.

[Holly&Fred]

Sorry, let me clarify. I didn't mean that the pigs would not need future vet care, I just meant that many people take what appear to be healthy pigs for a precautionary vet visit after they're first adopted, and if the rescue provided a vet visit for all pigs that would be adopted out, then there is no longer that expense that one might want to undertake. Ditto to everything else above about ethics and everything.

[heartpiggies]

Originally Posted by tree_hugger

If you have to spend the same amount whether you buy from a petstore or adopt from a rescue, why not choose the ethical option?

Oh, I agree! I just wonder sometimes what constitutes a "pet store" as opposed to a "rescue" you know? You would think they would be a little more concerned about finding loving homes ASAP, rather than trying to upsell you the $50 pair of Peruvian mixes. I agree the pigs are probably kept in better conditions, from what I could see on their website, but my local pet stores really don't do as bad as some others apparently do (pigs are kept in large enclosures, fed a decent diet, receive an initial vet check up etc). They also take in unwanted animals and resell them which is exactly what the rescues are doing. Just to clarify, I don't mind the price it's the point that rescues are supposed to care about animals not profit that gets me.

[lissie]

Originally Posted by heartpiggies

Just to clarify, I don't mind the price it's the point that rescues are supposed to care about animals not profit that gets me.

I don't think they are making any profits. Not all the pigs they take in are adoptable. Some pigs have to stay at the rescue due to medical issues.
The rescues I've seen also take animals from the shelters when they are put on euthanasia list.

[Peggysu]

Originally Posted by heartpiggies

Oh, I agree! I just wonder sometimes what constitutes a "pet store" as opposed to a "rescue" you know? You would think they would be a little more concerned about finding loving homes ASAP, rather than trying to upsell you the $50 pair of Peruvian mixes. I agree the pigs are probably kept in better conditions, from what I could see on their website, but my local pet stores really don't do as bad as some others apparently do (pigs are kept in large enclosures, fed a decent diet, receive an initial vet check up etc). They also take in unwanted animals and resell them which is exactly what the rescues are doing. Just to clarify, I don't mind the price it's the point that rescues are supposed to care about animals not profit that gets me.

Petstores don't care if guinea pigs are used a snake food. Rescues do care.

How do you know about these conditions at this pet store? Are you an employee, because what you see is totally different then what really goes on? Where do these pets come from? What kind of conditions are they in before they are in the pet store?

[Seonta]

If the number of animals that they have is high then the 50 dollars is really only feeding a few guinea pigs a month if they are feeding them properly. If you only have 3 guinea pigs finding homes a month you're only making 150 dollars. If you have what... 25 other rescue guinea pigs you're not gaining anything from the sales. You have bedding, you have food, you have hay. And if the rescue is cheaper than the pet store than there is a higher chance that the animals would end up as snake food which they are trying to avoid.

[fieryone]

Originally Posted by heartpiggies

Just to clarify, I don't mind the price it's the point that rescues are supposed to care about animals not profit that gets me.

A rescue is absolutely not making a profit. Rescues often, if not always run in the red. They take care of the pigs from the time they get them to the time they're adopted out which could be weeks, months, even years. They are given vet care (my vet is $36 for a guinea pig visit so right there takes away any "profit") and they also give them quality food, veggies, and hay. I spend more than $35 biweekly on these items for my pigs. There is no profit in animal rescue.

[heartpiggies]

Originally Posted by fieryone

There is no profit in animal rescue.

Once again, I agree. The issue I have is where the line is drawn between a pet store and a rescue. Is it at price? Because they charge the same. Is it at taking in unwanted animals? Because they both do that. Is it at level of care? Because, like I said, I do believe that my local chain stores take decent care of their animals (Of course, I do better ). I have been to stores that don't so I know the difference. I understand the major issue of acquiring animals directly from breeding mills and that is definitely a huge factor. But I'm having a difficult time coming up with any other reasons that are actually true in practice, not just theory (at least for this particular rescue).

[Seonta]

Did you read what I had to say about the price?

[akstrohm]

The actual price between a pet store and a rescue will probably be about the same until you consider that the average pig you will buy from a pet store will probably need quite a bit of vet care, and at least an initial checkup. Right there that puts the pet store pig at a significantly higher price. As mentioned earlier, rescues are definitely not making a profit, even at $50 for a pair. This seems like a very reasonable price, especially for CA.

Rescues are different in that they take in unwanted animals without promoting the breeding of more animals. Pet stores might take in some unwanted animals (although not necessarily), but they definitely support the breeding of more. These pigs are typically kept in very cruel conditions.

There is also a difference in the level of care. In a rescue, the pigs receive at least the minimum amount of space recommended. They get veggies twice daily, quality hay, quality pellets, and fresh water. The pigs are properly sexed, quarantined, and receive vet care when needed. Almost no pet store will provide vet care.

You seem to be saying that the issue of acquiring animals directly from breeding mills is a minor issue--it is not minor at all! I'm not sure why you need another reason. Going to a rescue instead of a store helps to stop the cycle of breeding more pigs when there are already so many that need homes. It's pretty simple.

[Heady]

Originally Posted by heartpiggies

Oh, I agree! I just wonder sometimes what constitutes a "pet store" as opposed to a "rescue" you know? You would think they would be a little more concerned about finding loving homes ASAP, rather than trying to upsell you the $50 pair of Peruvian mixes. I agree the pigs are probably kept in better conditions, from what I could see on their website, but my local pet stores really don't do as bad as some others apparently do (pigs are kept in large enclosures, fed a decent diet, receive an initial vet check up etc). They also take in unwanted animals and resell them which is exactly what the rescues are doing. Just to clarify, I don't mind the price it's the point that rescues are supposed to care about animals not profit that gets me.

Essentially repeating what everyone else has pointed out, rescues don't make a profit, so to speak. They are very concerned about finding loving homes (hence the adoption form *most* require you to fill out before you step foot out of their door with an animal) whereas a pet store will sell to anyone that seems remotely interested in their "guinea pig display".

Just remember, the money you pay at the pet store will be going into the store's pockets and the breeder's pocket, thus perpetuating this cycle of...abuse, really.

The pigs are definitely kept in much better conditions than in a pet store. Pet store animal displays are simply the pet store merchandising. Making everything look kosher and pleasant to the eye. Behind those "Employees Only" doors is a totally different atmosphere.

The rescues aren't reselling. They are adopting out and the money they receive from that adoption goes to further the care of the animals that are still there. If the money they received from an adoption was split up between the volunteers, sort of like what waitresses do, then yes, that would be selling. But that's not the case. Think about one word I just said: "volunteers". If a shelter was actually selling animals, there would be no need for volunteers because they would have paid employees. Just like a pet store.

I will say that you do have a point, though. There are many, many shelters out there and there are a few that do abuse their animals. So it's not like we can all pretend it doesn't exist, because it does. It's your job to look into whatever shelter you're considering adopting from and read about their practice, their history, etc... and see if that is one that you would want to support. I highly doubt it's a "bad" shelter because those really are a rarity, but if it would give you a sound mind, it's not a bad idea to check it out!

Best of luck to you!

[blackarrow]

All of what people are saying is true of legitimate rescues, but it always, always bears investigating whether the rescue is legitimate!

I volunteer for an excellent dog rescue. We just took in 8 dogs from a major bust of a breeder who was masquerading as a "rescue" - he was taking in people's unfixed purebred dogs and then breeding them and keeping them in absolutely squalid conditions and selling the puppies. You'd never have known if you were just looking at the glossy photos on his web site (many of the photos on his web site weren't even of his own dogs!) Vet care? Good food? Sanitary conditions? Not to be found at his place. It was an out and out puppy mill using the name of a rescue to defraud people.

If there were any doubt I'd want to know the name of the vet they go to, and would want to speak to that vet's office about their reputation, and it's worth checking with other area shelters, etc. as well. As well as seeing the pigs on the premises, etc.

[JD In Van]

I fostered for a rescue. The rescues vet bills have been well over $4000 / month in recent months, and average in the thousands a month... and that's with the fairly discounted rate the vet gives them.

Trust me the Rescues don't make a profit. There is no way they bring in nearly enough in adoption fees to cover those kind of bills and that's vet care alone. Most of the foster parents pay for their fosterlings food and supplies and housing if they can afford it to relieve that burden but they do have a whole shelter full of rabbits to feed and care for (cause they're a small animal rescue not cavy exclusive).

[Cogni]

I was impressed with many of the local rescues I researched in my local area when looking for a pair of piggies. Talking with the people, and having them answer all my questions about piggies, made it obvious that these people are knowledgable and operating in the best interests of the animals.
On the other hand, I discovered that there are a couple of local rescues, or at least people that call themselves rescues, that are possibly not like the others as far as professionalism and/or lacking the profit motive. One, there was no way to contact by phone, only email, and I could not get any answers about the animals. In the end I wondered if it was somebody who was collecting abandoned pets who looked as purebred as possible to try to sell them. A second one, I called and from the way the woman was talking I began to get the impression that she was actually an animal hoarder.
Craig's list is a great resource, but there is so much dodgy business on it --breeders passing themselves off as people just trying to sell an animal--that I thought perhaps some people have hit on the idea of calling themselves rescues so that people committed to rescues would buy from them.

[heartpiggies]

The rescues aren't reselling. They are adopting out

See, this is what I'm talking about. You can say that but is it always true?

I thought perhaps some people have hit on the idea of calling themselves rescues so that people committed to rescues would buy from them.

Exactly. I guess I should have titled this thread "shady rescues" LOL. I just think people are too gullible. It's like as soon as someone calls their operation a "rescue" then they are automatically adopting or rehoming animals rather than selling them, even if they charge the same price or higher.

I am starting to get a better idea of what the rescues' prices include but I disagree that my local pet store chains don't provide proper vet care for their animals. Their animals always look healthy and they have vets on site for goodness' sake. So I don't necessarily see that as a valid argument. I also don't understand how having unpaid volunteers, rather than employees, would cause you to make less profit I realize that supporting breeding mills (although both of my local stores do take in unwanted animals as well) is a major issue and I will never purchase an animal from a pet store because of this but I still see it as a little off that a pet store and rescue can both take in an unwanted animal, turn around and sell it (whether they make an actual profit or not) and the pet store is admonished while the rescue is praised.

[blackarrow]

Originally Posted by heartpiggies

Their animals always look healthy and they have vets on site for goodness' sake.

This doesn't mean anything. It's easy just to display the healthy looking ones and dispose of the others. Having a vet available doesn't mean the vet is actually doing anything meaningful or that anything recommended by the vet will be done.