I need help with a dillema

[Rachel-LLT]

I am having a dillema with someone in my area. I know something needs to be done for these guinea pigs. I am unsure as to what to do and how to go about it. That is why I am asking for everyone's advice. here is the dillema-

The story starts with a gentlmen who e-mailed and called our rescue looking for a young female guinea pig to adopt. once I found out through asking questions that he wanted the female to place with his young male to have babies.. he was denied.

A couple weeks later I find an ad on Craiglist about someone claming to be a guinea pig rescue wanting people to surrender and donate. Said they will rehome and need monies for food and vet bills. The name left on the ad was him , the phone number and e-mail address he left also was the same. It infuriates me that he will pose as a guinea pig rescue. What he is doing gives real and legit rescues a bad name!

I want to warn anyone on CL not to surrender or donate to him, because he is interested in breeding and he is not a rescue. I swore off ever posting again on CL a year ago.( I only read posts now and never post or reply) I posted looking for foster parents, someone did reply and she seemed genuine, she turned out to be a basket case. She posted negative lies about us on CL and so did other people, or maybe not , it could have been her posting over and over making it look like numerous people. Then someone called the SPCA and we were investigated for animal cruelty. The SPCA was happy with everything they saw, but the whole ordeal had me in tears.

Maybe I can have someone else post for me?

The last part to this story is from yesterday. My husband answered a call fom a guy that wanted to surrender two guinea pigs that he couldn't afford to take to the vet. They have medical problems and he didn't want to take them in to the vet. I even heard my husband say on the phone " With any pet there will be a need and time to go to the vet." I love my husband! He got off the phone saying I will need to discuss this with my wife and we will give you a call back. As my husband was telling me about the call , he said the man didn't want to say how many guinea pigs he had. I then asked him , was the guy's name Chris? He said, yes. And the phone number on our caller ID matched up, it's the same guy who wanted a young female to breed and claims to be a rescue.

Morally I do want to get the guinea pigs out of that situation and get them vet help. I wish we could convince him to give up everyone and all he is doing. I know if we help him with these two guinea pig, we are only helping him continue this evil thing he is doing. If I call the SPCA on him , will they do anything? If he is providing food , water and shelter, will they just let it go? Should I help the two guinea pigs and call the SPCA and warn people on CL not to donate or give him their guinea pigs? I don't know where this guy lives but I can provide the SPCA with his phone number, is this enough information for them?

Thank you for any advice

[Kipsie]

She's guilty of slandering your rescue and posing as a rescue herself. I think in some places you need a license for breeding. I don't know if she has one. =/

Reporting Animal Abuse or Neglect | The Humane Society of the United States


I'm not sure if i'm being very helpful, but maybe that link may help?

Remember to document phone calls, messages, etc. That helps you build a better case.

[Rachel-LLT]

Kipsie,
I am sorry for the misunderstanding, The person that slandered our rescue last year on CL is not the same person who is breeding, posing as rescue and wants to surrender 2 guinea pigs. I know I was jumping around in my post. I brought up the slander from last year to explain why I don't want to post anything on CL ever again, even if it is to reveal this guy as a liar.

To make it clear, this guy wanted to adopt a young female guinea pig to breed with his male, we denied him. Then he has been getting unwanted guinea pigs off of CL poasing as a rescue and asking for donations. Then yesterday to wanted to surrender 2 guinea pigs to our rescue. that need medical attenion and we won't take them to a vet . That is what he has done so far and what we know of.
I will take a look at the link you provided, thank you.

[Paula]

Originally Posted by Rachel-LLT

Maybe I can have someone else post for me?

I can understand your reasons for not wanting to solicit anything from CL but I can’t understand how “swearing off” posting on CL should be the thing that prevents you from posting an ad to warn people that might potentially donate money or other supplies to this man. You don’t have to identify yourself or even provide any contact information so I can’t understand why you would be unwilling to post in this specific situation.

Originally Posted by Rachel-LLT

If I call the SPCA on him , will they do anything?

The only way to really find the answer to this question is to call and talk to someone who works there. Explain to them the entire history, that he’s posing as a rescue, potentially taking in animals only to turn around and dump them when they’re sick, etc. Tell them you only have limited information but want to know what you can do. Surely they would be a better resource and would be able to provide you with information specific to your area.

Originally Posted by Rachel-LLT

I know if we help him with these two guinea pig, we are only helping him continue this evil thing he is doing.

It’s also going to set a precedent and every sick pig he has afterwards he’s going to just count on dumping with you. On the other hand, what does it say about your rescue if you won’t take in pigs you know to be sick or injured in some way? It’s a tough call, so I think the best thing to do would be to call the authorities in your area and ask them these questions. Maybe there’s something you haven’t thought of or resources that you didn’t realize were available that can help you and effectively deal with him.

Good luck.

[Rachel-LLT]

Paula posted
"I can understand your reasons for not wanting to solicit anything from CL but I can’t understand how “swearing off” posting on CL should be the thing that prevents you from posting an ad to warn people that might potentially donate money or other supplies to this man. You don’t have to identify yourself or even provide any contact information so I can’t understand why you would be unwilling to post in this specific situation"

Paula,
My fear is that the post I will make on CL will not be as anonymous as I think it is. People will find out that I made the post and know I am affiliated with a rescue. Then the rescue bashing and flaming will begin. I fear at that point, my message about this guy and what he is doing to guinea pigs will be ignored and forgotten. Am I making too much of it? Am I wrong or can this happen?

On our local Pet CL section, people are cruel and spread lies about local rescues every chance they get. There are rescue bashings on there every week. I want to do all I can to keep our rescue off of there.

Is a CL posting gauranteed to be anonymous?

[Rachel-LLT]

Paula posted
"It’s also going to set a precedent and every sick pig he has afterwards he’s going to just count on dumping with you. On the other hand, what does it say about your rescue if you won’t take in pigs you know to be sick or injured in some way? It’s a tough call, so I think the best thing to do would be to call the authorities in your area and ask them these questions. Maybe there’s something you haven’t thought of or resources that you didn’t realize were available that can help you and effectively deal with him."

Paula,
I am sorry if my postings are not standard and are confusing. I do not write on Forums very often. Majority of my time is spent on the rescue and caring for all the littles ones. I am not forum savvy.

My thought process is this so far- I will call the guy back and take in the two guinea pigs. I will get them a vet appointment with our primary vet ASAP. If any of them have urgent symptoms , I will contact the emergency vet or other 24 hour vet. My heart is already aching to help those two piggies.

After we have these two guinea pigs, I will contact the SPCA. I hope they can do something, and by this time we will have all his contact information because we require a surrender form to be filled out and have everyone write down their phone number, address, and sign it. He will have to do this when he surrenders the two guinea pigs. I will give the SPCA this information. I will hope they find enough grounds to do something about the situation. If they don't , I'm afraid he will continue to take in guinea pigs as a false rescue, and breed them and call us once someone gets sick.

I do not want to support this cycle at all. I also cannot , in my heart, leave a guinea pig in distress without vet care.

Does this sounds like a good plan? Should I attack it differently. These are my steps.
1.) Call the guy back and say, "yes, we will take in the 2 guinea pigs"
2.) He will sign the surrender contract with his information when he drops off the guinea pigs.
3.) CAll vet and get an appointment for guinea pigs
4.) Call the SPCA and tell them everything I know and give them his information.
5.) from there it is in the SPCA's hands

Should I do things in a different order or does these seem like a good plan? I have never needed to call the SPCA before about a problem, I want to go at this properly.
Thank you

[lissie]

If I were you, I would pick up the pigs at his place. He may lie about his address and contact info if he drops them off.

[JD In Van]

Originally Posted by lissie

If I were you, I would pick up the pigs at his place. He may lie about his address and contact info if he drops them off.

Agreed, this will also give you an opportunity to get an idea about what the conditions are there and if the SPCA will be able to do anything. Especially since you'll get to take a look around while he fills out the surrender forms.

[MissFormosa]

Originally Posted by Rachel-LLT

Paula posted
"I can understand your reasons for not wanting to solicit anything from CL but I can’t understand how “swearing off” posting on CL should be the thing that prevents you from posting an ad to warn people that might potentially donate money or other supplies to this man. You don’t have to identify yourself or even provide any contact information so I can’t understand why you would be unwilling to post in this specific situation"

Paula,
My fear is that the post I will make on CL will not be as anonymous as I think it is. People will find out that I made the post and know I am affiliated with a rescue. Then the rescue bashing and flaming will begin. I fear at that point, my message about this guy and what he is doing to guinea pigs will be ignored and forgotten. Am I making too much of it? Am I wrong or can this happen?

On our local Pet CL section, people are cruel and spread lies about local rescues every chance they get. There are rescue bashings on there every week. I want to do all I can to keep our rescue off of there.

Is a CL posting gauranteed to be anonymous?

I'm not sure absolutely, but I think if you are slandering another poster, your post will be flagged as inappropriate and removed immediately. Also, Craigslist has gotten better at investigating these things. They may be able to trace your IP address.

I have some ideas for you. Unfortunately, I need to run some errands at the moment. I'll post for you in a little while. I had sortof a similar experience and I thought I handled it well.

[MissFormosa]

Originally Posted by JD In Van

Agreed, this will also give you an opportunity to get an idea about what the conditions are there and if the SPCA will be able to do anything. Especially since you'll get to take a look around while he fills out the surrender forms.

Take your cell phone, if it has a camera and a silent shutter sound, and try to take some pictures. Make it look like you are dialing a number or texting. Evidence speaks for itself.

Here's my concern. Even if he surrenders his two sick piggies, what's going to stop him from acquiring two healthy ones for his breeding?

[MissFormosa]

Rachel-LLT, I am glad you asked for help. So may people just turn their backs and look the other way.

I have some ideas for you based on an experience I had with a rescue group that was neglecting the animals in their care. It's not really the same as your situation, but I learned a lot from it. This might not be the official way of going about something like this, but I did the best I could. Here's some of the things I did:

The first thing I would recommend is finding out what constitutes animal cruelty in your state. You can search for animal laws at http://www.animallaw.com or here on the ASPCA site. Pet-Abuse.com also has a useful chart. And here is a pdf document from the Human Society listing state laws.

Sit down and gather the information, how this happened, what date, who you spoke to, what address he gave you, what time he called, etc. Someone might ask you for this and you want it handy. I also made a log of who I contacted as far as reporting my situation, what day, time, and who I spoke to and also notes for follow-up. It's good to follow up and be persistent - sometimes you have to keep prodding to get things done.

The next thing is, write, write, write. I wrote to everyone I could explaining my situation. Even if I was sure they probably couldn't do anything to stop it, at least I was making them aware of the situation. These sorts of things stay on people's minds and you never know who might be able to pass on your information. Some people I wrote actual letters on letterhead (or good paper) and some I wrote via email. You'll see a lot of my work was redundant, but for the welfare of animals, I thought it was worth my efforts to notify someone even if they are just going to turn around and forward my info to the ASPCA.

I explained the facts exactly as they were and tried not to put too much of my opinion in it. I wrote what I saw, heard, smelled, quoted what I was told, gave my honest impression of the place, etc. I did not say things like "Mr. so and so is so darn incompetent he should never be trusted with an animal!" or "This place should be shut down, fumigated and reported to the health department!", etc. See what I'm saying?

You have to imagine what the reader, most likely an intelligent individual with very little time to spare, is going to get from your letter. If they get a paragraph into your letter and it sounds like you are just whining about something, I doubt they will read the rest or take it seriously. Be very to the point. I know it is hard to write this way when you are emotionally tied up into it, but you must try.

Be sure to state what laws you believe are being broken. I ended my letter (or email) demanding strongly exactly what I wanted to see done. I requested an investigation be conducted, a request that action must be taken immediately to ensure the welfare of the animals and reduce their mistreatment and suffering, and that if they (the reader) was unable to help, to please direct me to someone that can or pass on my information. If you want a copy of what I sent, PM me.

So I started with the most important people to notify and went from there. I notified the ASPCA and the local Humane Society first. I didn't want there to be any delay between when I experienced going to the rescue and when I notified them. Depending on where you are, you should also make a report to your local law enforcement. Here in NYC, this would be the Humane Law Enforcement (HLE) which is a special division of the ASPCA itself.

I also contacted the local Animal Care and Control. I didn't think they could help me as far investigating the rescue, but they did write back and provide me with more information. It's worth a shot.

Next I wrote to the State Dept of Agriculture and Markets. At first glance, you would think that reporting a neglectful rescue would have nothing to do with agriculture, right? Read their website or information throughly. It was very hard to find, but this department, in addition to supervising the agricultural industries within the state, upholds many of the animal cruety laws, provides dog licensing, and inspects the municipal shelters and provides the animal control program. You may have something similar to this in your state. I learned a lot from them during my experience with the rescue. Our state department investigated whether or not this rescue was listed as a pet dealer. In NY, if a facility sells or offers to sell more than 9 cats and dogs they must be licensed as a pet dealer, however, under certain incorporation statuses, this would not apply. The woman who helped me said she would do an investigation as to whether they should or should not be licensed and also made a report to the ASPCA.

In addition, I made a complaint with the Department of Health and Hygiene to investigate unsanitary animal facilities. I'm not sure this applies to you right now, but if you do visit this guy's supposed rescue to get the pigs and you find the place unsanitary, you could probably make a report.

With all those out of the way, I did some research and found the group that provides funding to the rescue. I wrote them and asked them what their policies were on supporting a rescue where animal neglect was occurring. She was quite disturbed and forwarded my information onto the lead agency that manages her fund.

I also made a complaint with the NY State Attorney General’s Division of Social Justice. They are responsible for monitoring the appropriate usage of funds which are allocated to not for profit organizations/charities. I was able to search the not-for-profit charity directory and find that the rescue was indeed listed as a non-profit.

Then I notified the Mayor's Animal Alliance. They promote animal welfare and no-kill shelters and such. They also list "Alliance Participating Organizations". I saw the rescue listed on the APO and notified them of what I had witnessed at the rescue and questioned whether it should be listed anymore. They responded that they would look into the situation.

Now, I'm not sure if I was supposed to do this, but I notified the FTC and the BBB, because this shelter is licensed as non-profit, but they ran a pet store next door which did make profits for the shelter. It just didn't seem right. I figured if my situation mattered, they would do something and if it was non-applicable they wouldn't, but at least I did something because it bothered me.

And remember, I kept a log on all of this...very important. Sometimes animal cruelty cases go to court (I imagine these are really serious cases) and it would be important to have this info.

Here's some more helpful items:

I notified the Citizens for Responsible Animal Shelter Management. They are an all volunteer advocacy group made up of animal professionals. It doesn't matter if your complaint involves a shelter or not, they look at cases of rescues as well. I'm not sure if this would apply to you, but I thought I'd throw it out there. The woman I spoke with was extremely helpful and knowledgeable. She suggested I go to my local Community Board meetings and speak about the rescue and what I witnessed. This makes those in charge aware of the situation and may also invite media coverage, which would mean negative coverage for the rescue. She also suggested getting involved in local animal welfare groups and letting them know what happened. Additionally, she offered to post my experience on their website so that others can be informed.

Here's a page from the Animal Legal Defense Fund. It lists things you can do under certain circumstances when you witness animal cruelty.

Hope all that helps you in your efforts. If I can be of any help, let me know.