Adopt vs. Buy: why is it bad to buy from pet stores??

[Peggysu]

Originally Posted by Sammycake

Wow, you really just don't understand. This is clearly a personal attack, surely you should be reported for that? I'm just voicing the opinion that not every single pet shop in the world is pure evil, and nor are the breeders. The examples that you find on the internet are going to be negative, how else would they make it on there? I was giving a positive review of my local pet shop, and as previously stated, I have a friend who works there and he tells me what goes on behind closed doors, and even the most proud piggy owner would be impressed.

And there's the 'if I can do it, why can't you?' message again. Perhaps you should re-read my post if/before you respond again. 'Noone's even being preachy'? I refer you to your own damn post. You may not have realised, but it's not sick and wrong to buy piggies from pet shops, and nobody should have to feel bad about not being able to get to a rescue/find someone who can bring the piggy/s from the rescue to themselves. We shouldn't have to be brow beaten into one way of thinking; everyone's entitled to their own opinion, and it should not be attacked with such crude, unjustified reasoning when legitimate evidence is given to prove that idiocy and cruelty is not the case.

Personal attack? Funny, Anyways no pet store is good because they still contribute to over population. In my opinion it is sick and wrong to buy from a pet shop especially if you know better!

Laziness is what causes people to buy from a pet store after they know about their options. Seriously do some research before you start defending pet stores because you obvious have no evidence it's all pure speculation on one pet store that you support, we're talking about pet stores as a whole, and all of them do no good, even your "special" store. They sell live beings as merchandise and nothing more. Those animals are to make a profit.

[Sammycake]

Originally Posted by Peggysu

Personal attack? Funny, Anyways no pet store is good because they still contribute to over population. In my opinion it is sick and wrong to buy from a pet shop especially if you know better!

Laziness is what causes people to buy from a pet store after they know about their options. Seriously do some research before you start defending pet stores because you obvious have no evidence it's all pure speculation on one pet store that you support, we're talking about pet stores as a whole, and all of them do no good, even your "special" store. They sell live beings as merchandise and nothing more. Those animals are to make a profit.

Yes, a personal attack, which I see you cannot deny.

I have done my research, and the closest rescue to here is about 2 and a half hours away. I've looked in papers, I've called vets, I've looked in classifieds, any suggestions you give I will have looked there. Anyway, what gives anyone the right to exchange live animals between hands?

[Peggysu]

I'd like to see this personal attack? Where? Also, please report the post if it offended you.

[Paula]

Originally Posted by Sammycake

Wow, you really just don't understand. This is clearly a personal attack, surely you should be reported for that?

It was no more a personal attack than anything you've said here, so please, get ahold of yourself.

Originally Posted by Sammycake

I'm just voicing the opinion that not every single pet shop in the world is pure evil, and nor are the breeders. The examples that you find on the internet are going to be negative, how else would they make it on there? I was giving a positive review of my local pet shop, and as previously stated, I have a friend who works there and he tells me what goes on behind closed doors, and even the most proud piggy owner would be impressed.

You are stating your opinion, which you are absolutely entitled to, but you are also attempting to flame an argument and then playing the victim when people disagree with you. It's a two way street.

Originally Posted by Sammycake

And there's the 'if I can do it, why can't you?' message again. Perhaps you should re-read my post if/before you respond again.

Re-reading your post is just re-reading your excuse to support breeders and pet stores. The bottom line is, if a person is truly motivated to rescue and not purchase, they will find a way to do so.

Originally Posted by Sammycake

'Noone's even being preachy'? I refer you to your own damn post. You may not have realised, but it's not sick and wrong to buy piggies from pet shops, and nobody should have to feel bad about not being able to get to a rescue/find someone who can bring the piggy/s from the rescue to themselves.

If buying an animal from a place that sells them like a piece of furniture, a place that will replace that same stock item with more after you've bought it while there are others that are facing euthanasia in shelters isn't a reason to feel bad, I don't know what would be. Honestly. Once you know better there's no excuse.

Originally Posted by Sammycake

We shouldn't have to be brow beaten into one way of thinking; everyone's entitled to their own opinion, and it should not be attacked with such crude, unjustified reasoning when legitimate evidence is given to prove that idiocy and cruelty is not the case.

There is plenty of legitimate evidence given to prove the suffering and cruelty. Not every pet store that sells animals is as bad as the next, but every pet store that sells animals is perpetuating a heinous cycle of creating lives for no other reason than to make a profit and selling them to anyone who can pay for them, whether or not the buyer has any knowledge of the life they are paying to become solely responsible for.

[gooberific]

Originally Posted by Sammycake

Wow, you really just don't understand. This is clearly a personal attack, surely you should be reported for that?
...
We shouldn't have to be brow beaten into one way of thinking; everyone's entitled to their own opinion, and it should not be attacked with such crude, unjustified reasoning when legitimate evidence is given to prove that idiocy and cruelty is not the case.

If you feel there's an issue with the way someone posted, there is an icon of a red and white triangle with an exclamation point that when you hover over it says "report post." Personally, I see no point in calling that out in another post.
...
No one is FORCING you to think one way or another, that's one of the great things about the human brain. However, on a RESCUE-FRIENDLY and pro-adoption site, one should EXPECT to have that point of view presented time and time again, with supporting evidence as to why we think that way. It's the internet. There are other forums that have different points of view, but in all of my research, none have quite the amount of information as this forum and Guinealynx.

...


And if you want to get into opinions, I'll share something with everyone. I am sick and tired of people who are freshly registered and then come directly to the kitchen to tell us how mean we are, how rude we are, how narrow-minded we are, and you know... the list goes on. How mean, rude, and narrow-minded is that? Really.

Now, on the topic of pet stores. Not everyone does research first. Not everyone thinks pet stores are bad. I'm sure most people realize at this point that most major pet store chains have stopped selling cats and dogs. Why? Because the consumer (people like you and me) told them that the conditions were bad. How is this any different for small animals? If not worse because they fit into smaller spaces?!

Now, with PETCO especially, they have signs all over promoting adoption. Yeah, they still sell small animals for people who don't think to contact shelters about them, so they can make money on living merchandise. As I recall from history class, it wasn't very long ago (in the grand scheme of time) that people were being sold as merchandise, and I'm fairly certain that a large majority of the human race would agree that it was wrong. Someone might say that you cannot compare humans with small mammals. I disagree. The poor things are in small spaces that are also their bathrooms, often mishandled, missexed, sick, and fed a poor diet. How is it different? Still a living, breathing animal in either case, so I fail to see the difference. (Clarification: by missexed, I do mean that mixing of the sexes leads to often unwanted pregnancies, in either case.)

When I was young and naive, I didn't know what was going on with small animals, but I knew about cats and dogs and the overpopulation of pets -- which I thought just meant cats and dogs. Thank you, Bob Barker. My family has always rescued our family dogs from shelters or from other families who couldn't care properly for the animal. I used to not think that small animals were a big deal. Now that I'm old enough, not so naive, not so ignorant, and the information is readily available on such an easy source as the internet is... I would never buy any animal from anyone, pet store or private. Ever.

[PiggieMom]

Did you call the rescue though? Two and a half hours is not a long ways. Many rescues provide transportation across state lines. How long did you look for a pig to adopt? Sometimes it can take months. There's nothing that can be done about the pigs you have now, you have them and I hope you stick around the website and learn about how to provide them with the best life possible and I'm sure you'll give them lots of love. But we're hoping that we can convince you that it's worth and possible to adopt in the future, if you ever plan on gettng any other pets. Now that you're a member here you have another resource. Members are willing to help find and transport pigs for adoption.

The system doesn't work. If it did, there would not be the horror stories that are repeated over and over of sick, missexed, pregnant, dying pigs that are kept and sold by breeders and pet stores. There wouldn't be thousands upon thousands of homeless guinea pigs posted on petfinder alone. Again I implore you to read some of the links I've posted.

[katiewilson]

Originally Posted by Sammycake

Yes, a personal attack, which I see you cannot deny.

I have done my research, and the closest rescue to here is about 2 and a half hours away. I've looked in papers, I've called vets, I've looked in classifieds, any suggestions you give I will have looked there. Anyway, what gives anyone the right to exchange live animals between hands?

Yeah, I'm fully denying that there's ANY sort of personal attack. This has nothing to do with you and everything to do with guinea pigs. You're merely the most recent in a looooong history of people coming to this pro-rescue forum and attempt to "enlighten" us, only to cry foul when we respond accordingly. Many members here have made the conscience decision to adopt rather than buy...attempting to change our minds on that is like going to a steakhouse to convert everyone to veganism. Good luck with that.

I understand that the rescue isn't next door to you, but there are always guinea pigs up for adoption...there's a good chance someone reasonably nearby will be rehoming. If not today, maybe tomorrow. Or heck, you might even need to wait a week. Or a month. But for a lot of us, it's more than worth the wait to not knowingly contribute to such a devastating overpopulation problem.

[crazywiggy]

Colinandcaeser and Sammycake:

Please don't take the strong views of people on this forum as a personal insult - it isn't meant that way.

The animals are the victims - the animals being bought and sold, the animals being neglected, dumped, surrended and euthanased, the breeding animals being housed in horrendous conditions and back bred until they die....

We don't hate pet store pigs, and we don't hate the people who make the mistake of buying animals from stores - most of us here have bought pet store animals in the past, before we knew better.

We do hate the practice of breeding animals which already suffer from overpopulation. We do hate the practice of poor care, neglect and abuse, and irresponsble breeding (and selling).

Some may go so far as to say we hate the people who do these things - the BYBs, the mill breeders, and the people who run the stores that sell them (not the counter staff).

Like I said, many people make the "mistake" of buying pet store animals because they don't know any better. It isn't well known that there of thousands of pigs in rescue or being destroyed. It isn't well known about BYBs and breeding mills.

What frustrates people here, is the number of people who DO know about overpopulation, neglect, abuse, impulse buying etc and still CHOOSE to fund and support it.

I personally don't accept the excuse "there were no rescues near me I had no choice". Keeping pets IS a choice - animals are a luxury, not a necessity. If you couldn't find an ethical, responsible was of getting piggies you could simply have not got any. At least not getting any is a neutral action (does neither good nor harm). Buying from a store however does a lot of damage - causing untold suffering to animals and owners.

I am surprised you think the system works! Absolutely - the system is very successful at promoting the idea of living, sentient creatures as merchandise. It is very good at encouraging impulse buying, poor standards of care and abuse. It is exceptional at promoting irresponsible and selfish behaviour.
The current system is great at causing heartbreak and financial difficulties for the people who buy mis-sexed, pregnant or sick animals. It works really well at causing suffering and death to THOUSANDS of animals.

Seriously - the system does NOT work, it can not possibly work. The only way to make it work is to prevent all irresponsible breeding and selling. And the ONLY way we are going to accomplish this is to stop the demand for animals in pet shops and stop paying people to abuse animals.

[rabbitsncavyluv]

Originally Posted by collinandceasar

i just bought two guinea pigs from petco....whats wrong with that?

Please take them asap to a cavy vet for a check up. They are usually missexed and sick. They come from breeding mills and backyard breeders. It is always best to adopt from a shelter or rescue or someone needing to rehome their guinea pigs.

Please read over this site and www.guinealynx.info for proper housing and care info. Petno likely sold you a bunch of useless and harmful products.

[Ly&Pigs]

Have you read this forum's Philosopy on petstores? If not then maybe you should. As I stated in a post yesterday, this forum is not going to back down on what it believes in.

http://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/...et-stores.html

[TwilightStar]

I know you're upset Sammy, but I hope you remember that this fourm is not about us, it is about the animals in our lives and trying to do the best we can to make them have the best life possible.

I really don't understand what the difference between a pet store pig and a rescue pig is, besides one was breed solely to put money in another person's pocket and the other is at risk to die because there is not a home for that creature.

If you would stop buying animals from pet stores, breeders would not add to over population. We need to take care of the animals here, not create more.

[rabbitsncavyluv]

Originally Posted by TwilightStar

.

I really don't understand what the difference between a pet store pig and a rescue pig is, besides one was breed solely to put money in another person's pocket and the other is at risk to die because there is not a home for that creature.

If you would stop buying animals from pet stores, breeders would not add to over population. We need to take care of the animals here, not create more.

The difference is no guinea pigs are bred to replace the one you adopt from a shelter or rescue.

And you aren't contributing to breeding or the pet overpopulation issue - you're alleviating it. You're also less likely to get a sick or pregnant pig.

[TwilightStar]

Originally Posted by rabbitsncavyluv

The difference is no guinea pigs are bred to replace the one you adopt from a shelter or rescue.

And you aren't contributing to breeding or the pet overpopulation issue - you're alleviating it. You're also less likely to get a sick or pregnant pig.

Um, hey, you got my post wrong. I'm saying breeding is bad. :/

[Sammycake]

I began to read some of these posts and admittedly I found them to be enlightening, but disappointingly, everyone reverted right back to the same point.

There's no reason for me to report the alleged post because all I'd get is denial that it ever happened. Peggysu clearly stated 'You obviously don't care' and I've read the rules and guidelines which clearly states

'No Name-Calling
If you disagree with someone, say, "I disagree with what you said, and this is why." Do not say, "You must be sick to believe that." Do not say, "You are obviously an idiot." If you disagree with their actions, e.g. breeding, say, "I think you're doing something terrible." Do not say, "You're a terrible person." Remember two things: people have different experiences from you, and may come to different conclusions about the world. Also, we are communicating through text, not face-to-face. People may not word things exactly perfectly.

therefore shouldn't said member be penalised? Accusations of such behaviour is surely prohibited in a heated discussion. The rest of you have obviously had this argument over and over again, but you're all repeating the same things and jumping through the loopholes that would prevent you from being warned/banned.

Paula, I will not be patronised in such a manner or told to 'get a hold of myself'. If I were to say anything to such an extent, then surely I would be penalised for it? And the recurring ‘if I can do it, then why can’t you?’ is beginning to become something of a blur when I read it. It’s unacceptable that you should take the so-called moral high ground and speculate that nobody is as saintly as you. The evidence given on the internet of abuse and cruelty does sadden myself and the rest of the piggy lovers, but the only reason that it has even been reported is because it is a negative review – what about responsible breeders? Why not actively search for the morally sound source instead of trying to defeat the commercial pet industry? Why not do something proactive like bullying those coming out of the shops with their new pets instead of sitting and about it on a forum and avoiding pet shops by a mile and a half in radius?

PiggieMom, as you may or may not have read before, I'm from England. Such services are not provided over here. My knowledge of piggies is vast due to them being a part of my life directly and indirectly since I was born, so I'm perfectly able to care and provide for them, but at what point is it commendable to make a piggy commute for a month of Sundays in a box? The piggy would undoubtedly be terrified of such a venture, so what shouldn't be assumed is that I'm a moron who can't care for her piggies and isn’t concerned about their welfare; people out there who are practically shipping them between states should be taken as such.

Ly&Pigs, I'm afraid you've misunderstood my campaign - I'm not out there with banners parading in front of pet shops saying that it's a good cause, because I'm not. As I stated before, I'm all for rescuing pigs, in the future when I have a bigger house and more money, then I'm going to strive to create a small pig sanctuary. Here in England/Britain, piggies are more of a rarity than they appear to be in America, therefore my views on pet shops are admittedly different to those closer to the problem, but I am read up on the topic and I still maintain my stance on it. What I'm trying to say is that members on this forum are indeed fiercly driven to save all rescue pigs and will go to any length to ensure that the pigs are happy. However, they should accept the fact that some people DO care about the welfare of pigs, but they have infact bought them from pet shops; should they be opressed for their decisions, or gently enlightened on an alternative and not strong-armed into it? A drastically misplaced view that people who buy pet shop pigs are supporting an evil system should be reconsidered - the only thing that's present on the customer's mind is if this pig will be loved by themselves/their family. Some people just don't have the time or the money to travel such a distance to rescue a pig, and over here, there certainly aren't such strong support systems and people willing to bring the pig to you.

Stop being so dense that you can't see past the rescue centre. By all means, don't change your opinions; stop the exhortation to anyone who dares stray upon pet shop territory. If you are able to give me a laconic response as to why you should be allowed to aggravate pig owners at a distance, before allowing them to explain their situation, and even then, give them the definitive confines of crucifixion if they dare think about purchasing a pet shop pig, then I will hold my hands up and admit I was wrong.

[blackarrow]

Your "explanation" of why you bought a pig instead of rescue one doesn't say anything that several thousand posters before you haven't said.

It really doesn't matter that you or anyone else had in mind "giving the little pet store piggie a home" rather than "perpetuating the breeding of cavies and selling them to random bystanders in pet stores." It has exactly the same effect. And your "blurring" what Paula said has made you reverse the point - she isn't saying no one is as saintly as her, she's saying anyone can do as she did. (And if you can't, you shouldn't have gotten pigs at all.) As for your question, "Why not actively search for the morally sound source instead of trying to defeat the commercial pet industry?" hint, hint - Paula did seek out a morally sound source for her pigs, remember? That's what you were complaining about earlier - her moral superiority?

Peggysu didn't say you didn't care about pigs, which might have been a personal attack - she said you didn't care about what people are saying, which is simply not. Don't expect me to feel sorry for your hurt feelings when you started off by calling people "preachy" and cursing at them.

[crazywiggy]

Sammy - I thought you might be English, I noticed you used the word mum instead of "mom" !

I'm in England too - but I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news - the situation for pigs in England is as bad as it is in the States. Please have a look at this site: Guinea Pig Rehome - Adopt a unwanted Guineapig (cavy) from a rescue centre

There are currently 11 pages of pigs needing homes, totalling approximately 150 pigs currently looking for homes. This does not include all the other rescues that do not list their guinea pigs on this site, or all the ones up for private adoption. It certainly doesn't include the pigs that were dead by 2 years because of poor care, or the ones that have died as a result of being "set free".

But even more importantly - if you believe we don't yet have such a problem as America does, would you not worry that we are heading that way?

The major rescues are actually saying that animal abandonment / surrender in the UK is getting worse - every year the number of animals needing new homes goes up. Thanks to the pet shops, BYBs, commercial breeders etc the overpopulation is continuing to grow and more and more animals are suffering.

As for your questions about Why not actually do something proactive.... most of us DO. Many members are actively involved in running or helping out with guinea pig or other animal rescue. Most of us are active campaigners - we lobby the shops, government, media, etc. Write letters, sign petitions, go to demo's. But all our efforts are hopeless as long as the majority continue to support and fund the abuse of animals.

[gooberific]

And, again, the England v. America (comparison and contrast on pet shops and overpopulation) thing is also redundant. Here's the most recent active thread: http://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/...522-petco.html

The fact that this thread was started when the thread I just linked was already in progress, is what really irritated me at the beginning. If you'd like to know more about why I'm irritated, or what my beliefs are, please read my previous post.

[couchon]

I have never posted in the Kitchen before, but I would like to add something. Before I found this site, I bought a big from a pet store. She was about a year old. She died in less than six months. She seemed healthy up until the day she died. I then bought another piggie. I bought her as a baby - the pet store just had a new litter. So far, thank God, she has not had any problems, but I am afraid for her every day. I recently adopted a piggie, and she, at two-month-old, is already bigger than my pet-store piggie. My pet-store piggie seems, small, fragile, and not as active. I love her, and I hope she lives to be really old, but I am still afraid for her every single day.

By the way, I don't drive either. I live in Manhattan, and I had to take a train for about two hours one way to get to the piggie I rescued. It will take you a full day, but it's really rewarding. As for the piggie being scared, I just made sure that the box I brought her home in had a top, so she felt more protected in a closed, dark space. She seemed pretty calm most of the time.

[vicky2]

Sammy, the people on this site are trying to HELP you, not attack you! The only reason that this dicussion is becoming heated is because you won't register in your mind that IT'S WRONG TO BUY AN ANIMAL FROM A PET STORE. How would you feel if someone was selling their child on the street? You would find that wrong, would'nt you?
All I'm trying to say is that, there is ALWAYS going to be an overpopulation of domesticated pets, including Guinea Pigs. My family is going to adopt our next pig very soon and my sister and I are going to drive three hours to do so. You CAN find a way to adopt. Ask a friend or family member to drive you to the place. Don't just be lazy and go to the pet store because there is always a way to adopt. No matter what you say.
The pet store I bought Lucky from keeps all of the animals separated and keeps them in great conditions. Great conditions are NO excuse. That's why I'm adopting. Believe it or not, this site is helping people, including me, and if your going to just buy from a pet store or a breeder or even breed, please don't flaunt it around or try to make it sound right because it isn't. And it NEVER will be either.

[Paula]

Sammycake - You need to get over your desire to see another member penalized for something. If there's been something worthy of such, a moderator will address it. If you're offended by something, report the post. If you aren't willing to do that, don't take it upon yourself to call out the things you perceive as problematic on the forum.

As for the "moral high ground" you speak of, I think it's your own insecurities that are making you see things this way. No one's said they are better than you. What's been said is that we've made a decision to rescue animals rather than buy because of things we've seen or know to be true in pet stores or at breeder facilities.

Responsible breeders, if they exist, are few and far between. No breeder that breeds to sell to pet shops falls into that category.

Your claim that you can't rescue because you live in England is silly. Plain and simple. It may go a long way to easing your conscience, but that doesn't make it true in any reality other than yours.

Do yourself a favor and avoid the curse words. This is a forum that's available to people of all ages - children and teenagers included - and if you're actually asking for respect, you need to extend the same to this forum and its moderators and members.

And please, don't claim to be for "rescuing pigs" when you've got a bigger house and more money. Pigs need rescuing now, not later when it might be more convenient for you.

How can you claim a person cares about the suffering of the animals in pet stores if they knowingly buy one from a pet store that's in the business of perpetuating that suffering?