Pet Stores: Petco

[wonderwhiskers]

Originally Posted by PiggieMom

Well, I disagree. I don't fine Paula to be rude at all.

My question is what exactly are you trying to say about pet stores?

The people of this forum are anti-breeding, anti-showing and anti-pet store. We don't believe in shopping in any store that sells live animals at all. This means no buying an animal, no buying supplies. The reason this is is because when money goes to the pet store it goes to breeders. Even stores that take in "rescues" to sell still support the idea that selling live animals is acceptable. So any pet store that sells live animals, no matter how well they treat the animals, is one we would not shop at. Period. We hope that by giving the pet stores less money, less animals will be purchased from breeders and therefore less breeding will happen. This method of boycotting has proven to work in the past with cats and dogs.

We also report abusive and neglectful persons. Many of us also work to educate store owners and breeders and supporters of pet stores in hopes they will change their ways. We educate in proper care to everyone, regardless of their beliefs. Yes, it is preferable that pet store owners are not abusive to their animals, but that does not mean we support them or purchase anything from them and we try our best to convince others to not purchase anything from them.

So what, exactly, about that do you disagree with?

I don't agree that 'boycotting cats and dogs' has worked.
Its worked to get the cats and dogs out of petshops, but then what?
It's alot better for the animal of course, but the RSPCA has recently released stats which show that the overpopulation rates here in the UK of cats and dogs has been steadily, and dramatically increasing over recent years.
This is because, of course breeders are still operating. Not through pet shops, but they still exist, and people still buy.

So instead, why don't we spend this time trying to get the goverment to make stiff regulations on owning an animal. That way breeders and petshops would have to conform to new standerds.

And where else exactly can you get pet supplies?
There is no where here that sells pet supplies, that does'nt have live animals. None.
And as for getting it off the internet ..Post and packaging means that you'd be spending almost triple, and having to wait for atleast two weeks.
I'd prefer to put that money into getting to and from the rescue center I volunteer in. Atleast then I know I'm doing some soild good, actually helping animals instead of chasing a non-existant reality,

[wonderwhiskers]

Originally Posted by paula.m.moore

I'm just gonna say that disagreeing with what you're saying and the point you're wanting to make doesn't mean I've been dismissive, narrow minded, patronizing, hypocritical or rude.

You can't just categorically dismiss someone who doesn't agree with you as any of those things. As to your statement that I'd "assumed" you were unaware of the real goings on of pet stores - that wasn't an assumption, because you yourself said you'd never been to the back room at Pets at Home, the pet store you think so highly of. Seeing animals turned in by owners who grew tired of them is not the same as seeing the conditions the animals are living in at the store. That you've developed a relationship with the staff at one pet store and feel they are "better" than others doesn't change the fact that pet stores selling animals is fundamentally wrong on a number of levels. And that includes the store you've grown to love so much.

I don't disagree that it would be nice to improve the conditions of animals living in pet stores and being sold as merchandise. I think it would be better still if they weren't sold at all.

And yes, you did explain yourself fully, again and again. I read it all and I still don't agree with you. If that makes me rude or dismissive in your
mind, then so be it.

In my OPINION you have been dismissive. You have taken what I have said OUT OF CONTEXT. You have chosen a small sentence, and ignore what came after it, explaining what I meant by it. That, in my books, is dismissive.
You have been patronising '' Maybe one day you'll see .. '' That is patronising. Don't tell me what I've seen. I already know thank you very much.

And I am not 'oh so fond' of Pets at Home, which I have said on here atleast a dozen times, and on different threads. I simply think it is BETTER
then the shops in America. I know for a FACT that we have LEGAL REGULATIONS that petshops must comply with, no NO ANIMAL is in awful conditions. They are NOT the best they could be .. but BETTER then America. That is what I have said from the start. (You, of course took this out of context. Again). If I could close down Pets at Home tomorrow , or replace it with a Pethshop that does not sell live animals .. I would.

As for 'developing a relationship with the staff ..'' it's 45 minutes away, they referred me to a brilliant vet and have helped me a few times. They are'nt exactly on my christmas card list .. but they are decent. Their animals ONLY come from people who can't look after them, dont want them or whatever .. as I already have explained. I RESPECT them, and am grateful to them. The take in animals that the local shelter (Yes, one shelter .. the next one is a few hours away) could'nt. They do NO buy from breeders, and as I have said ..we have no mills.

''That includes the store you've grown to love so much'. Please don't tell me what I love. You have never been to the 'store', which really is more a SUPPLIES SHOP AND REHOME, so you have very little right to judge it.
I'd like to remind you ..we have different cultures.
Your American. I'm English. You have a President. We have Royals. We are members of the EU ..and therefor follow laws set by the EU, and the MAA. You not only have a totally different legal system, but also views on animals.

I think American's as a whole do lack respect for animals. Noone over here has a pet monkey.

Its plain ignorant that you judge us, when I doubt you know much about us.
I DO NOT support petshops, but I will balance my views in a fair way.
So please stop TELLING me what I do, and do not belive, love or understand.

[Paula]

Actually I think it's you that's taking things out of context.

You say stores in England are better than in America, and yet you also say there are no stores there that don't sell animals. In the US, there ARE stores where you can buy supplies that don't sell animals. It seems that if folks have the option to shop at stores that don't sell live animals, that's a step above a place where that option is not available.

You also claim to "know" the horrors of pet stores and yet you say you've never seen the back rooms or the breeders/conditions the animals come from. Sure, they might not be mills, but that doesn't mean they're in ideal (or even humane) conditions. You say they take animals that are abandoned, from accidental litters, etc., and yet I'm certain that's not always the case. It may be the case in a few instances. They're still being supplied with animals to sell. To me, it's almost worse, because when animals come from sources like that, the store isn't likely paying anything at all for them, as they would from a breeder. They aren't putting out any money, but they are still getting a product to sell.

Great, there are legal regulations pet stores "must" comply with. That doesn't mean pet stores always abide by those regulations - much the same way people don't always abide by the legal regulations on speeding down the highway.

And good grief, no one's judged you or folks from your country. What I've said, what others have said, is that pet stores that sell animals are wrong. Whether that's in New York City or Zimbabwe, I don't care. Selling animals for profit, no matter the source, is wrong. Frankly, it seems it's you that's making a judgment on the US legal system and the nation's views on animals. You keep saying I don't have a right to judge it - yet you seem to have taken the liberty to make judgments about the US, its laws, its people, and its pet stores.

[Ly&Pigs]

Originally Posted by wonderwhiskers

I think American's as a whole do lack respect for animals. Noone over here has a pet monkey.

Statements like this are quite out of line. No one has bashed UK'ers or anyone from any country in this thread, yet now you are bashing American's.

Originally Posted by wonderwhiskers

Its plain ignorant that you judge us, when I doubt you know much about us.

No one is judging people from the UK, the thread is about petstores and that's what we are judging.

[sophistacavy]

Originally Posted by paula.m.moore

Actually I think it's you that's taking things out of context.

You say stores in England are better than in America, and yet you also say there are no stores there that don't sell animals. In the US, there ARE stores where you can buy supplies that don't sell animals. It seems that if folks have the option to shop at stores that don't sell live animals, that's a step above a place where that option is not available.

You also claim to "know" the horrors of pet stores and yet you say you've never seen the back rooms or the breeders/conditions the animals come from. Sure, they might not be mills, but that doesn't mean they're in ideal (or even humane) conditions. You say they take animals that are abandoned, from accidental litters, etc., and yet I'm certain that's not always the case. It may be the case in a few instances. They're still being supplied with animals to sell. To me, it's almost worse, because when animals come from sources like that, the store isn't likely paying anything at all for them, as they would from a breeder. They aren't putting out any money, but they are still getting a product to sell.

Great, there are legal regulations pet stores "must" comply with. That doesn't mean pet stores always abide by those regulations - much the same way people don't always abide by the legal regulations on speeding down the highway.

And good grief, no one's judged you or folks from your country. What I've said, what others have said, is that pet stores that sell animals are wrong. Whether that's in New York City or Zimbabwe, I don't care. Selling animals for profit, no matter the source, is wrong. Frankly, it seems it's you that's making a judgment on the US legal system and the nation's views on animals. You keep saying I don't have a right to judge it - yet you seem to have taken the liberty to make judgments about the US, its laws, its people, and its pet stores.

Zimbabwe That's the example I use when I'm talking to people and doing the whole "it doesn't matter where it's at" thing. Or the "even if there's a [blank] in [blank] country....blah blah blah" thing. What is it about Zimbabwe? L0L

Fourth of July......you picked the wrong day for this wonderwhiskers...

[Peggysu]

Originally Posted by sophistacavy

Fourth of July......you picked the wrong day for this wonderwhiskers...

No kidding! I thought the same thing myself.

[piggy&kisses]

i honestly dont know much about pet stores in the US but i know there are some horrific things, in Canada we have regulations set, and our borders have been shut down to american animal products due to not keeping with regulations, personally both my girls are adoption an rescue and my rescue is currently pregnant due to uneducated peoples. i personally do not have anything against pet stores in Canada.

[daftscotslass]

Not going to bother myself with quoting multiple posts but I would like to state that wonderwhiskers, your view of pet shops over here being gleaming and wonderful is naive to say the least. I could find multiple links and anecdotes but unfortunately don't have the luxury of an extended period of time.

Here is one to give you an idea - Green Fields Rescue - Caring for rabbits and Guinea Pigs

Were you aware that one of their main suppliers of rodents was a breeding farm? They breed for pet shops and reptile food, simple as.

British laws governing pet shops are archaic. The Pet Animals Act was written in 1951 and in even in light of modern legislation such as the Animal Welfare Act pet shops are still not required to follow the same standards as a private owner. It is not illegal in the UK to sell cats and dogs in a pet shop and nor is it a sign that pet shops care more about cats and dogs - it's just the requirement for additional paperwork involves a lot of time, effort and money that these corporations do not care to invest.

There are plenty people here, too, with pet monkeys. There is a rather large problem with people keeping marmosets and capuchins as pets so just because you don't hear about it on the television or see it in the tabloids doesn't mean it doesn't exist as a problem. British people on the whole ALSO lack respect for animals. But it doesn't mean that you or I don't care. Would you care for us to be judged on a similar way that you are judging people from the US?

I've been on this site for more than 4 years now and I was never judged by my nationality, just my attitude. Perhaps take note of that.

[SageCleo1]

"I think American's as a whole do lack respect for animals."



I think you need to be careful how you are generalizing. Just as you stated here in your last post "It is plain ignorant to judge us, when I doubt you know much about us"

[PiggieMom]

Originally Posted by wonderwhiskers

I don't agree that 'boycotting cats and dogs' has worked.
Its worked to get the cats and dogs out of petshops, but then what?
It's alot better for the animal of course,

I'm sorry you don't agree, but even there in this quote you have shown how it has worked. It has improved the lives of animals. As I said before, boycotting is just one step toward humane treatment of animals.

Originally Posted by wonderwhiskers

but the RSPCA has recently released stats which show that the overpopulation rates here in the UK of cats and dogs has been steadily, and dramatically increasing over recent years.
This is because, of course breeders are still operating. Not through pet shops, but they still exist, and people still buy.

There's so many reasons for overpopulation to spike, mainly economical recently. That doesn't' disprove the fact that the less people by animals from stores the less mills are supported and the less breeders are supported. Therefore, less breeding will be done. It's simple supply and demand. At the very least, it makes it more difficult for the breeder, as they now have to push their own "product".

Originally Posted by wonderwhiskers

So instead, why don't we spend this time trying to get the goverment to make stiff regulations on owning an animal. That way breeders and petshops would have to conform to new standerds.

As I said before, we do spend time working on legislation. There's no reason that we're not able to boycott stores as well as work on legislation. In fact, it would be foolish not to. If I don't agree with the laws that regulate a business, why would I shop there? It would be self defeating.

Originally Posted by wonderwhiskers

And where else exactly can you get pet supplies?
There is no where here that sells pet supplies, that does'nt have live animals. None.

I buy my supplies from a feed store and sometimes local farmers. As far as whether or not there is a place near you, I'll leave that to the UKers. If there isn't, though, then perhaps the UK doesn't think so highly of their animals as you think.

Originally Posted by wonderwhiskers

And as for getting it off the internet ..Post and packaging means that you'd be spending almost triple, and having to wait for atleast two weeks.
I'd prefer to put that money into getting to and from the rescue center I volunteer in. Atleast then I know I'm doing some soild good, actually helping animals instead of chasing a non-existant reality,

I also purchase a lot of my supplies online. With smart shopping I actually save money by buying in bulk and finding places that ship out near me. Even if some things cost me a little bit more, it is worth the money to assure that I'm not contributing to the death trade that is breeding. By giving money to those who support the breeding trade, you've canceling out any good you do by supporting rescues.

It's such an easy change to make, not buying from stores that sell live animals, so much easier than anything else. There's absolutely no reason not to make it. It may not make the most immediately and visible difference, but by supporting breeders by giving pet stores any kind of payment you certainly wouldn't be doing any good.

[Ly&Pigs]

This thread is getting close to getting shut down because of certain statements being made. This thread needs to get back on topic, about petstores, not nationalities.

[salana]

Originally Posted by wonderwhiskers

Theres one about 45 minutes away from me that 'sells' animals..but from local people .. for example accidental litters, and animals that the Rescues are too full to take in.

Two questions:

What about those people who have "accidental" litter after "accidental" litter? Will the pet store take them in and go "Oh gosh! Sure we'll take those off your hands!"

Why are the rescues full?

[crazywiggy]

This is going to be short as I have to start work soon but I did want to correct a few points...

I live in England. I spend a lot of time hanging around pets at home to keep an eye on things, I always enter other pet stores I pass to check them out, and in the past I have bought animals from stores.

1) There ARE pet shops in the UK selling dogs and cats. It is NOT illegal - despite ongoing campaigns. There are still maybe 20 places in
England selling pups from known puppy farms, and a great many more selling cats. There are even a few English pet shops selling monkeys.

2) The law that only over 16s can buy animals is very welcome but only a recent thing. I bought my first pigs (without my parents present) at 12. I have also known kids to just lie to pets at home over the phone, saying the parents have to work so the kids will be picking up the animals alone.

3) We DO have animal mills here, both for puppies and for smaller animals. Have you seen a rabbit breeding facility? I have - its not pretty. Pet stores also buy from dodgy back yard breeders. I had a friend when I was about 14 who deliberately bred her hamsters. The shop knew she was under 16 but they offered to buy her litters anyway.

4) Yes - pets at home have a vet in store. Have you never wondered why they still don't guarantee the sex of their animals? Are their vets really that incompetant, or do they not actually use the vets for their own stock?

5) I have NEVER been offered any animal care info when buying a pet myself, nor have I ever seen anyone else offered advice. I have known them to sell to anyone with cash in hand. I have known them to advise crap cages (or sell the worst cages without comment) and vitamin drops for water etc.

6) Your opinion that pet stores selling animals isn't a big deal is not one that seems to be shared. Most of the large rescue groups, especially the species specific or small animal groups have long campaigned to get animals out of shops. There are various groups campaigning against the sale of dogs in shops, and the puppy farms they come from.

7) Finally, most pets shops here take crap care of their animals. Pets at home at least looks nicer than most. My experience of pet shop animals is of unhandled, badly bred animals. Some of my purchased pets have been sick, two were considerably older than I had been told, and NOT ONE lived the expected lifespan.
As for care - pets at home still house their syrian hamsters in groups, still use pine shavings as bedding for all small furries - except rats which are housed on grid floors in my local. All animals are housed in aquarium stle cages or pens with no ventialtion, they are always hot and stuffy - you may notice they have to put fans up in summer?
I have seen much worse though - including large numbers of mice and hamsters etc being housed in "shoe box" lab cages, or a large adult rabbit in a hutch that can only have been about 1x2 feet.

8) I agree that animal welfare laws here are better than some - but they are not adequate and are poorly enforced. Check out this site on Welsh puppy farms (the same ones selling to pet shops in England!) and watch the videos. The authorities STILL claim that these people are doping nothing wrong - they are acting within the law. Despite this footage, these people have not been prosecuted, they still have their licences and are still doing it. Puppy Love-Home

Hope this sets the record a bit straighter.

[daftscotslass]

Originally Posted by salana

Two questions:

What about those people who have "accidental" litter after "accidental" litter? Will the pet store take them in and go "Oh gosh! Sure we'll take those off your hands!"

Why are the rescues full?

On a similar note, it also disgusts me that while rescues across the UK struggle to cope financially, you are telling us that a huge multi-million pound corporation is profiting from it. Lovely.