Showing: I don't understand why showing is bad...

[Paula]

Originally Posted by Mrs.Smith

Well I wouldn't want to prance around just so people can stare at me...and thats all I need to know.

Many horses actually benefit from the challenge and the discipline. And many horse shows are actually meant to judge the human's ability with the animal and not the horse at all. If the horses are trained humanely, it can be very, very beneficial for the horse.

[BrainDeadBuster]

Well, your guinea pig doesn't want you to watch it "popcorning around". I suppose you think horses should just sit in the back pasture and do nothing? I love how so many people on this particular forum are so uneducated about so many things. Some even think because they volunteer somewhere, or donate money, or rescue, that it gives them the innate ability to decide what is right and wrong for all, but at the same time completely blinds them to their own hypocrisy. Keeping your guinea pigs in a small cage without any enrichment, would be the equivalent of owning a horse and doing nothing with it. What is it that you know about horse shows?

[BrainDeadBuster]

Oh, and I love the line "and that's all I need to know". Not surprised at all.

[Mrs.Smith]

paula.m.moore
I was talking about GPs...but thanks for the info.

BrainDeadBuster:
I don't think you should be trying to start a fight with me. I was not being smart or anything I was just saying what I feel about them. And no I wasn't talking about the owners (family) of the gps, I wouldn't however have alot of strangers around them at one time. It could put stress on them. Even when my friends come over at one time. It puts stress on them. Thats why I have one or two come over at a time now.

[sophistacavy]

Well, I agree that certain showing of horses, as long as most of the pressure is technically on the human, and it doesn't make a difference as to the horse's bloodlines (or lack thereof), can be beneficial to the horse.

And to akstrohm--I didn't even consider that, thanks for the info. But people should adopt horses too, there are tons of them for adoption. People shouldn't feel like they are forced to buy a horse to get what they need. It's wonderful that they are putting their previous horse into a better situation.
Can people not adopt horses that suit them from rescues/shelters? That may be another thing I don't know, so don't get annoyed, BrainDead.
I mean, I thought that if someone who was intent enough looked hard enough, I'm sure that eventually they could find a homeless horse that would work for them. But then again, maybe not.

I also do know that many of the horses in rescues/shelters have been neglected and/or abused, so I understand that at that point, they of course wouldn't be suitable show material right away, unless the potential adopter had time and desire to work with the horse before practicing for the show.

[BrainDeadBuster]

I guess only I can be personally attacked on this forum. The minute I try to disagree, or point out the obvious problems I have with your views, you do everything you can to get me banned for disagreeing. It's like a dictatorship.

[sophistacavy]

Originally Posted by BrainDeadBuster

I guess only I can be personally attacked on this forum. The minute I try to disagree, or point out the obvious problems I have with your views, you do everything you can to get me banned for disagreeing. It's like a dictatorship.

I'm not trying to get you banned, and I have no idea where you got that from.

The problem with you is that you haven't disagreed or pointed out ANY problems you have with anyone's views. You instead insult, insult, insult, insult, insult, insult, insult. You need to learn TACTFULNESS.

You have done so many personal attacks on me and on other members, that I don't even care anymore what you say. Say whatever you want about me, because it won't bother me anymore. I'm not going to sit here and feed your bully needs for harassing people.

And if you go to that forum called "Why Can't we all get along?" you will find thousands of other users who have claimed they have been personally attacked. You aren't the only one, sorry. Many other users have been actually personally attacked, but you have not been attacked even once.

It's interesting how everything is about you, or somehow ends up circling back to you, you you you. You are not the only one on this forum.

Have fun harassing someone else, because you have officially lost the bullying battle with me!

[Paula]

Originally Posted by BrainDeadBuster

I guess only I can be personally attacked on this forum. The minute I try to disagree, or point out the obvious problems I have with your views, you do everything you can to get me banned for disagreeing. It's like a dictatorship.

That's actually rather comical. When YOU initiate a personal attack, people tend to respond in kind. And that's not just on this forum, that's generally the way things are in life.

This seems very personal to me:

Originally Posted by BrainDeadBuster

Oh, and I love the line "and that's all I need to know". Not surprised at all.

It is actually possible to state a problem with someone's view without personally attacking someone yourself. To be surprised that people might have a problem with that means you're either delusional or ... trying to get banned yourself to prove some sort of bizarre and ridiculous point. Problem being, the only one you'll be proving anything to, should you go so far as to get yourself banned, is yourself.

[lmarieaa]

Originally Posted by BrainDeadBuster

would be the equivalent of owning a horse and doing nothing with it. What is it that you know about horse shows?

My family runs a horse rescue. Many horses can NOT be ridden because either of age or disability or previous abuse. Those horses are very happy in a pasture with their buddies. They have a huge red ball that they like to kick around and play with. They get training and exercise on the lunge line, and enjoy taking walks with us on trails. Thinking that all horses need jobs to be happy is ridiculous. Many horses are couch potatoes, its depends entirely on their personality. Some horses really enjoy being under the saddle, and others would rather spend the day grazing and rolling in the dirt (especially right after a bath ).
Whereas, there are horses, such a Coach and Lula (young race track cast offs) that must have stimulation and outlet for their energy. So some minor re-training as riding horses was something that they benefited from. However, they value their turnout and downtime as much as any horse.
Braindeadbuster, it sure seems like you are specifically trying to cause trouble on this forum. You have insulted members on several threads now..it wouldn't hurt if you would be a little more respectful.

[lmarieaa]

Also, as far as adopting horses out. Many of them are special needs. We have blind horses, bow legged horses, horses that have permanent leg and hoof problems that went untreated by their previous owners, a horse that had acid poured all over his face because 'he was being a bad horse', and have a couple whose owners let halters grow into their faces and now have permanent scarring. Also, horses that have been horridly abused under the saddle, they have bridle scars, bit scars, and scars from being whipped- so morally, I would prefer that these horses never be ridden again and not bring up terrible memories.
There is no waiting list for these horses. But there is a waiting list for the horses like Coach and Lula.
We are lucky to have a trainer that donates her time to working with our horses, and is also willing to help new owners that adopt from us.

[akstrohm]

Originally Posted by sophistacavy

But people should adopt horses too, there are tons of them for adoption. People shouldn't feel like they are forced to buy a horse to get what they need. It's wonderful that they are putting their previous horse into a better situation.
Can people not adopt horses that suit them from rescues/shelters? That may be another thing I don't know, so don't get annoyed, BrainDead.
I mean, I thought that if someone who was intent enough looked hard enough, I'm sure that eventually they could find a homeless horse that would work for them. But then again, maybe not.

I also do know that many of the horses in rescues/shelters have been neglected and/or abused, so I understand that at that point, they of course wouldn't be suitable show material right away, unless the potential adopter had time and desire to work with the horse before practicing for the show.

Of course it is great to adopt horses that need homes. Unfortunately, training horses is difficult, and it takes a lot of time and energy. Sending a horse to a trainer is quite expensive. Many rescues do not have these resources, and so a lot of horses in rescues are not well enough trained to suit most of the people who are looking to buy horses. (Some are, and these horses are adopted much more quickly.) Off-track Thoroughbreds (those that used to race) are one good example. They have only been trained to race and will require much time and effort to be retrained for other purposes. A talented rider working with a talented trainer will do well with these horses, but there are simply not enough homes like this. Most people looking to buy a horse want one that is already trained to be ridden. If they try to get a horse that is too much for them to handle, it will be a disaster for the horse and rider. With guinea pigs, anyone can adopt any guinea pig (maybe with the exception of pigs with very specific medical needs). You don't have to train them. There's no excuse for not adopting because pigs in rescues and shelters are typically equivalent to those found in pet stores. With horses, it is great to adopt a horse from a rescue if you can find one that suits your needs. It's just that so many horses in rescues really are not suitable for the average person looking to buy a horse.

As for not being show material right away, you have to work with any horse a considerable amount before being ready for a show, so that's not really an issue. Adopted horses can do wonderfully at shows.

I hope that makes sense!

[blackarrow]

Originally Posted by Mrs.Smith

Well I wouldn't want to prance around just so people can stare at me...and thats all I need to know.

That's not something that a horse even considers. If a horse is unhappy, it doesn't "prance," and horses just aren't made unhappy by having people looking at them.

You really can't assume that horses (or any other species of animal) and humans have the same reactions to things.

Edited to add that I just saw in a subsequent post you said you were talking about GPs prancing. I haven't been to a GP show but I can't imagine they are asked to "prance" at them. I have already said I don't see any benefit to the GP to being at a show, but I do think what happens there should be portrayed correctly.

[sophistacavy]

Originally Posted by akstrohm

Of course it is great to adopt horses that need homes. Unfortunately, training horses is difficult, and it takes a lot of time and energy. Sending a horse to a trainer is quite expensive. Many rescues do not have these resources, and so a lot of horses in rescues are not well enough trained to suit most of the people who are looking to buy horses. (Some are, and these horses are adopted much more quickly.) Off-track Thoroughbreds (those that used to race) are one good example. They have only been trained to race and will require much time and effort to be retrained for other purposes. A talented rider working with a talented trainer will do well with these horses, but there are simply not enough homes like this. Most people looking to buy a horse want one that is already trained to be ridden. If they try to get a horse that is too much for them to handle, it will be a disaster for the horse and rider. With guinea pigs, anyone can adopt any guinea pig (maybe with the exception of pigs with very specific medical needs). You don't have to train them. There's no excuse for not adopting because pigs in rescues and shelters are typically equivalent to those found in pet stores. With horses, it is great to adopt a horse from a rescue if you can find one that suits your needs. It's just that so many horses in rescues really are not suitable for the average person looking to buy a horse.

As for not being show material right away, you have to work with any horse a considerable amount before being ready for a show, so that's not really an issue. Adopted horses can do wonderfully at shows.

I hope that makes sense!

That helps a lot akstrohm, and it makes perfect sense, thank you! That was actually along the lines of what I was thinking, that its a lot different with horses because they are more complex animals, and you can do a lot more things with them than with guinea pigs. So, the two can't really be compared.

[CDErin]

Just wondering, some people have said that they disagree with showing guinea pigs as they are a prey animal but then in the next line have said they dont mind showing horses. If a reason for not showing is because they are a prey animal then surely that means you dont beleive in showing horses?

Personally I dont think showing is stressful for any animal as long as they are not suddnely forced into it. I show (but dont breed apart from 1 accidental) guinea pigs at a few shows. When young they go to less shows than the adults to slowly get used to them, I also try to only go to ones where I know how the judge will handle them. Once adults they are calmer due to being used to them so they will be shown more often (about once a month) Any pigs that dont enjoy the shows are not taken again. However I can see how it would be stressful, if I had an older pig who had never been shown I wouldnt even think of showing it as the whole process would be far too stressful. I also wouldnt overload a young pig with lots of shows. Guinea pigs are the same as other animals (I beleive someone mentioned about dogs enjoying being in the ring) in that if they dont like the show they wont show themselves off to their best so therefore there is no point in showing one who is stressed. Obviously you do get the people who only care about winning and will show a stressed pig anyway just because it meets the standard, I feel its those people who give showing such a bad name at times as the majority of people who I have met are not like that at all.

[lmarieaa]

Horses can not be compared to guinea pigs. Yes, they are both prey animals but they have completely different outlooks on things.
Guinea pigs like a stable environment. They do not like to be moved around from one place to another and having to get used to so many new environments. So much change for a guinea pig just freaks it out. This is something a guinea pig can never get 'accustomed' too, because the guinea pig does not have the capacity to process what is happening to it.
Horses, however, are very, very different. Horses get accustomed to showing. They learn the routine. It is a life that they get used to and that many enjoy. I personally know many horses that love the muss and fuss of showing. The love attention and the pampering and primping of the whole process.
You really can not say the guinea pigs like to be put in small traveling cages and picked up and poked and prodded all the time. Change is not easy for a guinea pig, no matter how 'used to it' you think they are. Guinea pigs are not horses, and do not think like horses in any way.

[blackarrow]

Originally Posted by CDErin

Just wondering, some people have said that they disagree with showing guinea pigs as they are a prey animal but then in the next line have said they dont mind showing horses. If a reason for not showing is because they are a prey animal then surely that means you dont beleive in showing horses?

There's also a matter of scale involved. A GP is what, less than 1/50th of the size of the "predators" surrounding it and picking it up at a show? And a horse, while still a "prey" animal, is never picked up (obviously!) and is about eight times the size of the "predators?" It matters.