Showing: I don't understand why showing is bad...

[blackarrow]

Originally Posted by s_anthony

It's hard to not group them all together I guess..

I think it's a very different thing to compare a performance show of something like a horse or a dog to a conformation show of a prey animal! I show my dogs in agility and they flat out love it - they would be bored out of their gourds if we didn't get out and about and have the action and excitement and mental stimulation. I suspect a fair number of dogs and horses enjoy the fuss and attention of conformation events, but it's hard to imagine for a guinea pig.

[crazywiggy]

I would say I am against showing for conformation (in general) and against the showing of most species.

I am against conformation shows because as others have said, it is all about breeding the perfect animal. With many animals this specifiaclly means breeding with physical characteristics that are known to cause suffering for the animal (whether that is satin pigs with health problems, bulldogs for flat faces leaving them unable to breathe etc).

I am also against any form of showing of small animals, especially any "prey" species because I believe it must be incredibly sterssful for them.
I don't know enough about horses and have never attended a horse sho so I couldn't say whether or not they enjoy it.

The ONLY species I don't object to showing (under certain circumstances) is dogs. This is because dogs are the one animal that should not find it too stressful. They should already be completely happy with everything from being groomed, to car rides and being out of their home, to meeting other people and dogs etc. Obviously I would never advocate forcing a shy or nervous dog into it, but many do seem to enjoy the atmosphere and the attention.

Even with dogs though, I'm not happy with conformation shows as already mentioned. I love watching the training stuff (agility, obediance, flyball etc). Partly, because again the dogs enjoy it (particularly if they are humanely trained) and because it promotes responsible ownership - it encourages people to socialise and train, to give their dogs enough exercise, fun things to do etc. I think a lot of dogs would be better off if they had something like agility to do!

[Peggysu]

I was getting my allergy shots last week and this lady was in there talking about how she shows her border collies for sheep herding. She specifically said she would not work or train a border collie unless it was AKC registered. I also heard her say she breeds them sometimes but only for people who are going to be doing sheep herding with them.

Then she was talking about people in the county and their training techniques of using shock collars. This made me so angry to hear her talk about this as I have a border collie/lab mix (borador). My dog came from a horrible place but luckily my dog is a dog and I'm sure he'd be great at agility or as a search and rescue dog or a cattle dog. I don't want him to be a working dog.

With all the border collie mixes in shelters around here it just makes me so mad. It's like they will only be good if they are "pure" breed.

[s.edwards]

Originally Posted by auburnmare5

Yeah those are the shows that I do. They are called schooling shows. There are no money prizes involved in the ones I do except for the games classes, but it isn't that much. The only big prize you get out of them is a great experience and a ribbon if you place.
Schooling shows are the lower levels of showing...sort of like an intro.

Is that like the agility, flyball and obedience shows for dogs? I know the animals in those shows don't have to be perfect breeding material. In fact many of them are spayed/neutered pets. Those are just to show off your dog's intelligence and mainly for fun. So are those type of shows ok?

[auburnmare5]

I don't really plan on doing big shows for a while. I see having a very high priced animal with top bloodlines for schooling shows and lower level shows as pointless. The only way I would ever do anything like that- buying a great horse like that- is if I were to go into a big show, and that is it. But even then I would see if I could work with the horses I have been working with.

[4piggers]

I just wanted to say something...not everyone that *culls* kills. Culling can also mean, selling as *pet* quality. Or *giving away* with no pedigree, so it is less desirable to breed. Because no ped means no way of knowing the back ground...and sometimes means unable to show.

[jenniwat001]

I'd like to add that the main difference between horse showing and showing other animals (cats, dogs, guinea's etc) is that Horse shows show off the ability of the rider and much less the "quality" of the horse.

I disagree with showing animals for their perfection. But horse showing is something that I actively participated in and would continue o do so if I had a horse-the showing was done on my favorite horse who I loved and it didn't matter that her legs were a bit thin for her body- Yes I knew people that bought horses for their show quality but this was high up showing and very rare.

[Myspoiltpiggies]

I am one of the few members here who used to show my guinea pigs. I stopped because they were roughly handled. That was bad enough for me. I wouldn't handle my own pets like that so why should someone else. My piggies were some of the calmest piggies there and would sleep most of the time but other people's were so skittish that when people walked past their pen they would go mad!

I had a few purebred piggies but most were showed in the 'pet' class. I mostly just showed for fun. I did breed 6 of my piggies. The guinea pig show definitely did encourage me to do so. It was at a show that my breeder friend saw a lovely purebred breeding pair for me which I bought and had my first litter.

As it has already been said they can also catch illnesses. My piggies have suffered with lice in the past. I don't know if they caught it from the show but I reckon so.

My very last show was very upsetting and that was really what did it for me. I no longer wanted to support guinea pig shows. It was a very hot day in the summer and someone had left their piggies in the car. I am not sure how many died but I think there were at least 3.

[meghannmariexx]

What is s bun?

[akstrohm]

>>I'd like to add that the main difference between horse showing and showing other animals (cats, dogs, guinea's etc) is that Horse shows show off the ability of the rider and much less the "quality" of the horse.

Well, what is judged depends on what type of class it is. But I also have shown horses and I don't think it is unfair to the horses like it is to guinea pigs. They are very different animals, and the issues surrounding showing and breeding them cannot be compared using blanket statements.

[krittercrazy]

Horse shows encourage the same poor judgement and greedy attitude in breeding as any other animal show. I know people who breed horses. They breed for the current fad of horse. They want to breed the horse that will get them thousands of dollars. I was so sickened to hear these breeders complain when the slaughter of horses was banned! They no longer had a place to unload their "undesirables" and get a few bucks in the process. And with the sudden flood of horses to choose from they could no longer get the high prices that they were previously.

Mares are often bred again right after giving birth. When they are all used up, they are a drain on resources and are gotten rid of asap. Slaughtered, abandoned, starved, treated no differently than any other unwanted animal.

They put the minimum amount of training in the young horse with the cheapest possible trainer (who many times is incompetent). Some of the horses are injured during training.

I cannot even talk about the treatment of the Tennessee Walking horses with out getting sick.

Regardless of how well the show is run or what kind of show it is or what your intent is, the part of the picture involving the breeding is the same. Many are saying that it is not about the quality of the horse. Well, the not so pricey horse and the outrageously expensive horse are both coming from the same breeders.

[rabbitsncavyluv]

Originally Posted by 4piggers

I just wanted to say something...not everyone that *culls* kills. Culling can also mean, selling as *pet* quality. Or *giving away* with no pedigree, so it is less desirable to breed. Because no ped means no way of knowing the back ground...and sometimes means unable to show.

How is that any better or a different?

They give the guinea pig to 4H kid to breed and show, or they sell them as snake food, or whatever else. They typically do not care. And if that pet ends up as a "pet" if they are lucky, isn't that taking a home away from a homeless already existing pet?

Aren't these "reputable breeders" not supposed to breed such pet quality only?

[BrainDeadBuster]

I hardly think it's fair to say that people who attend horse shows (barrel racing, pole bending) are greedy, blah, blah, blah. People are getting out there and having fun with their horses. The shows I have been to are similar to flyball, frisbee, ect with dogs. I'm not talking about some crazy horse breeder who wants his tenessee walking horse to step higher than his neighbor's. I don't know anyone who would want their horse to go to the slaughter house, at least no one responsible and loving.

[lmarieaa]

I agree in the difference in horse shows. There is a big difference in a 'show' and a 'competition'. There are a lot of competitions and rodeos that emphasize the breed and conformation along with skill aka the 'perfect horse', and the more of those shows you win, the more value your horse gains and looks more appealing for those that want to use your horse for breeding purposes. Or if you sell that horse you can sell it for a ridiculous amount because it has won such and such competitions.
The shows that I go to are purely fun. It is just a display of your horsemanship. There is a show that I go to every year in San Antonio. It is sponsored by the Sheriffs department, and is just a bunch of fun horse games, and shows of horsemanship as well as a clinic of horse behavior and handling. There are even rescue groups that set up booths with information on their wonderful horses for adoption.
Shows aren't all bad, it really depends on what the goal of the show is.

[4piggers]

Originally Posted by rabbitsncavyluv

How is that any better or a different?

They give the guinea pig to 4H kid to breed and show, or they sell them as snake food, or whatever else. They typically do not care. And if that pet ends up as a "pet" if they are lucky, isn't that taking a home away from a homeless already existing pet?

Aren't these "reputable breeders" not supposed to breed such pet quality only?

How is it better that they are NOT killed? Really? I thought you guys were up in arms that they *killed*.

And even *reputable breeders* cant control if a rabbit/pig comes out that isnt able to be shown.

[sophistacavy]

Some shows can be just for fun. Somewhere around me, they have a greyhound fun-run about every month, I think. It's simply that: a fun-run.

What I don't like are the horse owners (you can find plenty on craigslist) that seem to think their horses are like trading cards. You can get rid of your current horse if you want to move on to bigger and better things. No, you can't. I think that once you acquire a horse, your duty to that creature is to protect it and hold onto it for the rest of it's life. Unless you are jeopardizing it's well-being in some way, then you should never get rid of it.

For example, how would you feel if your parent's decided they wanted a more challenging child, and used you mainly to get the jists of parenting? So, they get rid of you, and perhaps adopt a disabled child who brings more of a challenge.


And barrel racing can get competitive, can't it? I thought barrel racing was a competition, not a show.............L0L I don't know much about using horses for anything but companion animals/ pleasure riding, so...correct me if I'm wrong.

[BrainDeadBuster]

Yeah, it's part of a "show" Oh, and I like how you just grouped ALL horse owners into the same heartless category that trade their horses like playing cards. Nice.

[Paula]

Originally Posted by 4piggers

How is it better that they are NOT killed? Really? I thought you guys were up in arms that they *killed*.

If they aren't killed, they are still animals that have been created for essentially no purpose, animals that need homes when there are already so very many homeless animals to begin with.

Originally Posted by 4piggers

And even *reputable breeders* cant control if a rabbit/pig comes out that isnt able to be shown.

Which is one of many reasons they shouldn't be breeding in the first place.

[akstrohm]

Originally Posted by sophistacavy

What I don't like are the horse owners (you can find plenty on craigslist) that seem to think their horses are like trading cards. You can get rid of your current horse if you want to move on to bigger and better things. No, you can't. I think that once you acquire a horse, your duty to that creature is to protect it and hold onto it for the rest of it's life. Unless you are jeopardizing it's well-being in some way, then you should never get rid of it.

For example, how would you feel if your parent's decided they wanted a more challenging child, and used you mainly to get the jists of parenting? So, they get rid of you, and perhaps adopt a disabled child who brings more of a challenge.

And barrel racing can get competitive, can't it? I thought barrel racing was a competition, not a show.............L0L I don't know much about using horses for anything but companion animals/ pleasure riding, so...correct me if I'm wrong.

I see no problem with selling a horse if it is not currently a good match for you, whether that is because you want a more challenging horse or a more athletic horse or a calmer, easier horse. A horse will be happiest when it is with an owner/rider who is a good match. As long as you find a suitable home for the horse and don't just dump it at an auction for $100, there is really no problem here. You cannot compare horses to humans in terms of selling/adopting them. It just doesn't make any sense--they are entirely different organisms with different needs. A horse does not feel hurt that it is sold in order to buy a more challenging horse--that is just ridiculous.

Furthermore, few horse owners are capable of training untrained or improperly trained horses. Often these horses are trained by one person and sold at a profit to the next. There is nothing wrong with this. It means this horse now has a better chance of a good future, the trainer is able to train another horse, and the new owner gets a horse that is a good match.

It seems to me that you don't have a very good understanding of the horse world, yet you have very strong anti-showing opinions about it. Showing horses is quite different that showing guinea pigs or other animals, in terms of how the horses are treated and what (dis)advantages showing has for the animals. It is best to do some research and consider different opinions from people who understand horse showing and the circumstances surrounding it before you form an opinion.

[Mrs.Smith]

Well I wouldn't want to prance around just so people can stare at me...and thats all I need to know.