Hr669

[lmarieaa]

What makes you such an expert? You are just trying to get everyone to agree with your opinions.

[BrainDeadBuster]

Oh brother, yeah I went to that site. Salmonella, ! So do chickens! People should wash their hands. Also, habitat destruction is the number one threat to wildlife right now, but I bet you'll keep shopping at Wal-Mart right? To call owning reptiles and amphibians disgusting, and a hazard to ones health is actually moving people backwards, into disliking something because it may be potentially "gross". There are thousands of captive bred frogs, snakes, and lizards out there that are not from the wild. Sure, their ancestors were, but so were guinea pigs at one time also. Point being, you are no better than anyone else by owning an animal you should not own. Period. You can't make it better by saying some poor frog may have salmonella, when dogs carry some heavy (more so than frogs) parasite loads themselves. Maybe the HSUS should blog about that.

[lmarieaa]

Okay, so your point is to talk down to us and try and make us feel like bad people for having pets? So, how are you better than us? You are putting yourself on a pedestal, and making it out that we are all such horrible hypocritical people.
Please get off YOUR high horse, its really annoying. Is this something that you need to do to feel good about yourself? Chronically insulting other people?

[BrainDeadBuster]

My point is, since you fail to see it, Don't tell others they are wrong for owning an animal that you don't own, while you own an animal yourself. PETA is AGAINST the ownership of animals, period. Really, that's what they want. It's not fair to own something for your own personal pleasure. So, as I read this, and have read past messages about how wrong EVERYONE else is for owning animals you guys consider un-domesticated (and I'm not talking about obvious animals like lions and tigers and bears), but things like birds, fish, lizards, ect. I can't help but see the absolute hypocrisy in posting those messages about how wrong someone is to own a lizard, but you can own a guinea pig. Even, if said lizard is born from captive bred ancestors. Because, the arguement usually goes that way "well guinea pigs are domesticated, but those animals are not". The point is, don't cast that stone at others, lest you be judged yourself.

[BrainDeadBuster]

Ya know, don't throw rocks if you live in a glass house.

[BrainDeadBuster]

IMAREIAA, I wasn't singleing you out, unless of course you believe everyone else is wrong for owning an alternative animal you know nothing about, and that you are perfectly right in owning a guinea pig because they are supposedly "domesticated". Those posters know who they are.

[lmarieaa]

Good for you. Now you can get down from your pedestal.

[sophistacavy]

Originally Posted by BrainDeadBuster

IMAREIAA, I wasn't singleing you out, unless of course you believe everyone else is wrong for owning an alternative animal you know nothing about, and that you are perfectly right in owning a guinea pig because they are supposedly "domesticated". Those posters know who they are.

I told you you'd better watch yourself.

For your information, I volunteer with these people: PHOENIX LANDING

I share my life with a quaker parrot and an african grey. I don't own them, I owe them.

Please try to refrain from assuming things.

If you rescued/adopted your reptile, then great for you. Same for parrot-people.

But if you purchased a reptile or parrot from a pet store or breeder, then shame on you. Those animals are exploited and very often taken from the wild: Where the Wild Greys Are: Wild African Grey Conservation - ThePerch.net Message Boards - The Friendliest Pet Bird / Parrot Forum on the Net !
African Grey Parrots - WPT conservation and welfare project

[ferndalezoo]

Of our non-furry pets:

Rose, colombian red tail boa: rescue. Captive bred. Never seen a live prey item.
Erma, ball python: rescue (her owner found god, turned straight, and decided her pet snake was an instrument of satan)... Captive bred. has a major wound from a live rat.
Bathsheba, kenyan sand boa: rescue. captive bred. Never seen a live prey item.

Jake, bearded dragon. Rescue.
Zack: Iguana: rescue.
Grabbie, Arlene, and Agent 2-0-4 (clawed frogs) rescues.
Jupiter and Crypto (firebellied toads). rescues.

Gryphon (african grey parrot). Rehome.

So according to some of you on this thread: because they don't have fur, they don't count as "pets"?

[BrainDeadBuster]

Actually, what was said was they are disease ridden (Salmonella),not suited to live with humans, and are not domesticated. Apparently the thought is that they are not intelligent enough to be domesticated.

[BrainDeadBuster]

Not referring to the parrot as far as intelligence goes of course. The arguement on the birds was them being taken from the wild. The reptiles (even if captively bred), are still being called non-domesticated?

[ferndalezoo]

Yep. Salmonella is part of their natural body flora. The same can be said for most birds.

They're not "tameable", not in the way that dogs and cats are (of course, my dogs and cats are rescues, and not "tame" by some of your standards either.....

But they needed homes.

And we were willing to take them on.

[BrainDeadBuster]

Interesting that people have claimed guinea pigs to be "nervous" and skittish when out of their environment, but they are still considered domesticated, even if a calm lizard was captive bred is considered non-domesticated. I'm perplexed.

[BrainDeadBuster]

If you go to the HSUS site, it sounds like your the one that should be rescued from the reptiles.

[sophistacavy]

Originally Posted by BrainDeadBuster

If you go to the HSUS site, it sounds like your the one that should be rescued from the reptiles.

Would you please STOP bashing HSUS?!! They are in the same category as PETA: an animal rights organization.

You bash one, you bash the other. And if you had bothered to read the rules thouroughly, you would have remembered that PETA bashing and ANY other animal rights and animal welfare organization bashing is NOT allowed.

One of the many reasons that HSUS exists is because PETA can't do it by themselves. There are such huge problems going on with unfair treatment of animals, that no one single organization can make a dent by itself. All of these organizations need each other, so if you make bad comments about one, you are making bad comments (aka BASHING) about the other.

[BrainDeadBuster]

I'm not bashing, but I disagree with saying that reptiles and amphibians are unhealthy. Come on, there is a better way than making them look disgusting. You can't see that? Rodents carry rabies, the plague, but we still keep them near. It's not a good idea to make them look unhealthy to uneducated people. That could lead to who knows what. I think informing people of the many needs and cost of keeping them is good. But if you make them look like they are pests, then people may start treating them as such, and we are already losing them at an alarming rate due to deforestation and pollution.

[lmarieaa]

Can we please get back on topic?

[salana]

I think the aims of this bill are good, but the implementation is bad. And I don't have the answer.

Animals commonly kept as pets in the US which are not native to this continent: cats, dogs, horses, rats, possibly mice, guinea pigs, chinchillas, rabbits, hamsters, gerbils, ferrets, parrots, some snakes, some turtles, many fish, the list goes on and on...

Animals sometimes kept as pets in the US which are native to this continent: skunks, prairie dogs, alligators, some turtles, some snakes, some fish...

I think this bill attempts to address several problems with pet ownership in this country, with varying degrees of success:

1. Animals dangerous or potentially dangerous to humans: we would like to exclude the ownership of chimpanzees, crocodiles, lions, wolves, anacondas, and so forth. But we are not sure if we would like to exclude dogs who can carry rabies, cats who can carry toxoplasmosis, dwarf hamsters who can carry LCMV, rats whose fleas can carry plague, turtles who can carry salmonella, etc.

2. Destruction of habitat to obtain animal: we would like to exclude ownership of wild-caught fish, wild-caught reptiles, etc. But we would like these animals, once abandoned by humans, to be taken to rescues and not killed out of hand.

3. Destruction of native flora and fauna if animal is released: we don't want people to release their lionfish which will outcompete our native fish. But it is hard to prove that, if you had a lionfish in your tank, and you have no lionfish in your tank anymore and now there is a lionfish in the ocean, it is your lionfish. So the bill wants to prevent the importation of lionfish so you cannot get one to put in the ocean.

I think it is too broad and vague. I also think that animals of non-wild-type coloration are less likely to be invasive than animals of wild-type coloration for the simple fact that they're more likely to die. And I think that some of it is a tempest in a teacup. Nobody is going to come and take away your guinea pigs or your Syrian hamsters or your ratties or buns or parakeets. Animals that are already banned in some states, or require a license in some states, are going to be the first ones to be looked at by whatever commission may or may not be funded by this bill. And if they start making noises about banning gerbils, or ferrets, or dwarf hamsters, there will be flak from Petco and from Petsmart and from Superpet and Kaytee and Hartz and all the other manufacturers of dangerous junk for these animals. And it will grind to a standstill.

[Kevin A]

for those that dislike reptile keeping
I can tell you I've been bittin by more rats hamsters rabbits guinea pigs squirrels and mice than by reptiles and amphibians.
In fact my finger's been chewed up by just hamsters alone than any other reptile or amphibian compined.
Not to mention you can look it up,
more people in this country die from mammals than reptiles.
On the issue of becoming an invasive species.
your rodents are waaaaaayyy more likely to became invasive than reptiles.
for 1 they are warm blooded which means they can survive in many more places than reptiles can
for 2 they breed like...rabbits? hence they phrase
Most reptiles can only breed once a year a hamster or mice can pop out up to 10 or so babies a month.
for 3 reptiles and amphibians prey on insects which can cause disaser for many farmers and people in the industry
Mammals feed on the foods farmers produce which would make them just as disasterous as insects.
for 4 if your rodents are so domesticated than why have I been bittin so many tims by them?
what does being domesticated have to do with anything?
just because they have fancy colorful fur makes them less likely to be destructive?
and if you say they've been domesticated in the terms of temper
I'd really beg to differ
Dogs and Cats are believed to be "domesticated".
how many people get mauled every year by dogs?
do you know how many NATIVE reptiles amphibians and birds get killed and eaten by these "domestic" animals every year?
Yes reptiles and amphibians can carry salmonella
how hard is it to wash your hands after handling them?
Another thing, your rodents are mammals(obviously)
but being mammals makes them more like us. The more similar we are the more diseases we can contract from them.
I am not opposed to you all keeping rodents(after all are reptiles need to eat=]) but I do get offended by you claiming reptiles are "disgusting" and "unsuitable" pets
keeping a reptile in a cage is no more or less cruel than keeping a mammal in a cage, domestic or not.
just because they're "domestic" doesn't mean they enjoy it.
you people are just expressing typical human nature-If you don't understand it than obviously you must fear it and destroy it right?

[sophistacavy]

Originally Posted by BrainDeadBuster

I'm not bashing, but I disagree with saying that reptiles and amphibians are unhealthy. Come on, there is a better way than making them look disgusting. You can't see that? Rodents carry rabies, the plague, but we still keep them near. It's not a good idea to make them look unhealthy to uneducated people. That could lead to who knows what. I think informing people of the many needs and cost of keeping them is good. But if you make them look like they are pests, then people may start treating them as such, and we are already losing them at an alarming rate due to deforestation and pollution.

Well, I never said that they were either disgusting, gross, or unhealthy. That is simply the HSUS's opinion. If I had the space, time, and ammenities to rescue/adopt a reptile, I would. I personally find them to be simply fascinating creatures.

Anyways, back on topic. I just hope that some good comes of this bill, whatever it may or may not mean.