I'm afriad of my Anatomy & Physiology class this 2nd semester......but I want to be a

[sophistacavy]

vet, so I have to disect things. In my school (I'm 18 now, 2nd semester senior 12th grade, so I can post clues about my age now, no worries) I'm pretty sure the anatomy class disects cats. I've just heard how gross it is, we supposedly have to "drain" them (whatever that entails), and then skin them. I remember about a year ago, when we were going somehwere in my animal science class, we passed where they had left the skins from then's current anatomy classes. I remember seeing a cat's tail (skinned part, not actual tail) just lying there.....a bit disturbing imo.

I am going to become a veterinarian, and I will pursue my doctorates and become specialized in exotics and avians, anything thats a pet, and not a dog or cat L0L. And from all I've learned on this wonderful website, maybe I'll be a revolutionary truly cavvy-savy vet who can change the world of cavy care. But thats besides the point, what I'm getting at is that imo, one (such as myself, for example) could not learn adequately enough to become a great vet w/o dissecting things......but I have hardly any gag reflex, and it really is the smell combined with the image that gets me. If they could make fermaldihyde smell like febreeze, then I'd be all for it L0L.

Unfortunately, I'm at a crossroads here, but I have divised a solution of sorts, and I wanted to ask you guys if you think this is a fair arrangement. Since I absolutely cannot tolerate the stench, I was going to ask the teacher, (this all when the time comes, mind you) if I could wear my nose plugs that people (like me!) use for swimming, and are commonly available in drug stores. I relaize how ridiculous I will look, and that I'll probably be made fun of. I think the teacher will most likely let me do that, but if he doesn't, then I don't know what to do, and I wish I could just get over this sqeemishness and not be bothered by the odor....I wish I could, honestly, that would be a miracle.

I also have been informed that when you do an operation or procedure on a living animal in real life, the animal is obviously 1. not dead and 2. void of fermaldihyde. So, there is basically no smell. I believe that even though the visual factor will still be present when I become a vet or even go to vet school, I will be fine because the stench will be absent. So, why should I be forced to smell something and watch something and put the essentially audiovisual (there are sound effects that combined with the sickening smell, get me too) and olfactoryvisual experience of dissecting something together if that does not acurately represent the real life situation that I will face someday as a future vet? I understand we have to "learn by doing", but a veterinarian would never have to dissect a live patient, that would kill it.

I wish there was another way, that I felt would give me the same knowledge that dissecting will/does, to become a wonderful veterinarian. Okay, so since I want to work on every species under the sun that we can keep as pets, what am I going to have to do in order to provide the best possible care for each species of patients I might have? Dissect a dog, cat, guinea pig, ferret, hamster, rabbit, chinchilla, rat, mouse, snake, reptile, hermit crab, parrot, etc? I mean, if these religious advocates of vivisection say that it is the best/only way to become a truly expert, safe veterinarian, that "knows every pet inside-out", than what other way to learn more about all types of commonly kept exotic pets than to dissect them? I am definetely not going to friggin' dissect a guinea pig, I'd sooner try some menudo than dissect a guinea pig. I'd gladly, on the other hand, perform surgery/operation of any kind necessary/possible to help a cavy in need. Thats one of the things I look forward to most when I become a vet, knowing that while I am inside that delicate life force's body, I am saving its life, and watching it wake up and be all better, and knowing that I can pat myself on the back and say "Katelyn, you saved this animal's life today, and saved it's humans a world of pain and agony." I am close to tears writing that last sentence, for I truly want to become a vet not to make money, but to help animals. I want to be a hero to animals, as doctors/people surgeons are heroes to us humans.

But.....is dissection the only way? I mean, the friggin' Mayo Clinic founder said this about vivisection: "I abhor vivisection. It should at least be curbed. Better, it should be abolished. I know of no achievement through vivisection, no scientific discovery, that could not have been obtained without such barbarism and cruelty. The whole thing is evil." - Dr. Charles Mayo, Founder of the Mayo Clinic

I mean, what does a future vet really learn by ruthlessly barbarically slicing, cutting, breaking bones, skinning, draining, crushing things, tearing organs out haphazardly, etc, when you dissct something? How does playing with a dead animal help you operate on a live creature, when no degree of carefullness needs to be taken during vivisection, but is all too important when doing a surgical procedure on a live animal that could be your pet? It's like "Okay teach, here's the kidney, now if this were a live animal, I would've killed it already. Okay, thats how your break the frog's jaw, that tought me alot, I'll use that to break all my patient frog's jaws in my future career, yeah I'm sure........."
And now that I'm fully versed in extracting frog fat, I can offer customers liposuction for their obese pet frogs! And if they want, I'll skin their cat for them while I'm at it! You see what I'm getting at?

I just love that quote by Dr. Charles Mayo, I didn't even know he said that until a little while ago! In fact, his words are my thoughts exactly. And he's the Mayo Clinic......thats not even animals, its people.

Now I'm done! Your turn.

Thanks in advance!

[5guinea5pig5]

I didn't read the whole post just some of it so if I say something you already said sorry. This may sound obvious but if you put up a good fight (argument) you maybe able to win. Online dissection 2 simple words. If that doesn't work then just make sure the animal lived a healthy life and was humanely put to sleep.

[Deenanicole08]

I also didn't read the entire thing (it so long Lol, like a novel), But I got most of it. But if you cant disect things, I'd be afraid to have you operating on my animals. I certainly dont want a doctor who has learned how to operate only online working on me. You learn from experience. If you cant disect things, maybe you should look into a different profession, something that wont be so hard on you. I understand the smell would be awful, but maybe you can wear like a mask or something, like dentists wear, and plug your nose. But I certainly wouldn't want you opening up my guinea pig and not really knowing what to look for when you get in there to fix it. A picture is much different than the real thing, it's also good preparation for the real deal, I understand you wont be working with any type of preservation, or a dead animal, but it helps to learn your way around, and see what things look like, and how it all really fits together.

[5guinea5pig5]

I feel your pain. I could barely read about it. If someone tells me about a smell that's disgusting I feel like I can smell it. Like I said make sure the animal was humanely put to sleep and lived a happy life.

[tehdoc809]

I agree with Deenanicole. While you may be working with living animals, you may have to preform some operations that require you to open them up. You don't really learn the best ways to navigate something by just reading text books and online programs, you'll have to have hands on experience. And there is only one way to get that.

[gooberific]

The teacher should let you wear noseplugs. A tip, though, put some peppermint oil on your upper lip to help with that in case the noseplugs don't work as intended, as well as chew some minty gum. Might want to share that with the rest of your classmates.

I have done dissections of fetal pigs, twice. Once for high school bio, once for college credit (while in high school) bio. I have also, in high school anatomy and physiology, assisted with the dissection of human cadavers. While gross... it was at the same time absolutely fascinating. My hs/college bio teacher would pick up "fresh" roadkill and bring it in for dissection, as well, which was a big "no no" because it wasn't sterile...

[Alusdra]

You can probably protest this dissection. But as far as becoming a vet- dissection is absolutely necessary. Vet schools are going towards donated animals, however, rather than purchased ones. When doing your research for what classes you need to take to fulfill prerequisites, look up the different schools' policies on cadavers.

Educational Memorial Programs | EMPs

[ColoradoMama]

I have to agree with the fact that this is something you must do to get proper experience. With humans it is different, because once you've seen the inside of one human you have a pretty good idea of what it is supposed to look like. But with animals, what they look like from the inside can vary greatly. Just because you dissected a cat doesn't mean you know what the inside of a guinea pig looks like. So, as a pet owner I would have to say that if your experience hass been online tutorials, I wouldn't want you working on my animals.

[Angelgal]

Now, no one bite my head off here...
I'm a Vet Tech student, and I plan to attend Vet school afterward (mixed animal). IMHO this is NOT a class that needs to be in highschool. This should be a class you take when you get INTO college for DVM.

That being said, there are MANY ways to hide the smell, and IMHO its not that bad. You get use to it very quickly. However, pepermant oil, nose plugs, tab of vicks (I think thats what my A&P teacher had out). The trouble about strong aromatherpay oils such as pepermant, you need to make sure no one in your class is going to have an allergic reaction or be bothered by such a strong scent.

However I agree with Deenanicole08. There are going to be times in a veterinary clinic you may need to open up dead animals, not just operate on live. The inside of an animal is no different dead or alive. There is blood. If you cannot tolerate that, this may not be the profession for you.

There is a HUUUUUUGE difference between using online dissection and the real thing. There is only so much you can learn form a text book or a computer screen. I'm sorry but you can't feel the membranes on a computer screen, you can't know what they feel like or see how the work IN the body on a screen and learn where they are by feel. I'm sorry but text books and online dissection only take you so far ... I would NOT want a vet anywhere near my animal if all their education was based off a computer screen vs. actual experience (seeing and feeling) inside the animal. Every species is different.

I mean, what does a future vet really learn by ruthlessly barbarically slicing, cutting, breaking bones, skinning, draining, crushing things, tearing organs out haphazardly, etc, when you dissct something? How does playing with a dead animal help you operate on a live creature, when no degree of carefullness needs to be taken during vivisection, but is all too important when doing a surgical procedure on a live animal that could be your pet? It's like "Okay teach, here's the kidney, now if this were a live animal, I would've killed it already. Okay, thats how your break the frog's jaw, that tought me alot, I'll use that to break all my patient frog's jaws in my future career, yeah I'm sure........."
And now that I'm fully versed in extracting frog fat, I can offer customers liposuction for their obese pet frogs! And if they want, I'll skin their cat for them while I'm at it! You see what I'm getting at?

Right there in that first line, very misunderstood about the process right there (or at least what actually occurs in college/university). These animals on the table are treated with such large amounts of respect. You go brutally at this animal doing whatever you please, you're going to find yourself kicked out REAL fast. You have to be neat. You have to have a purpose.
Skinning is very simple and done very carefully as to not damage muscles.
The only thing your going to break are ribs.
Never drained an animal.
If you crush something, what are you learning? Thats not dissection...
Organs, if removed, are done so carefully as to not damage the organ so it can be examined better (example: the heart, the kidneys etc.) You can learn a lot by removing say a kidney and slicing it in half.

You have dissection all wrong, and I think before you consider going for DVM you should learn a lot more about dissection and what really goes on, not just based off what you see in your highschool classroom where dissection does NOT have a place since its not teaching for a proffession.

I'm sorry but I have seen online dissections, you get hardly anything out of them like you would in a lab during an actual dissection. They only provide you so many pictures and IMHO you need to see a lot more then that if your going to be a DVM. I did an online cat dissection ... they did not include many pictures/angles at all. They did not provide much, if any information about abdominal muscles ... They don't give you the detail you need to be a DVM and operate on animals. You need hands on experience. You need to see the chambers of the heart, the cordae tendinae and the linings of the organs etc. You need to FEEL it with your gloved hands. You need experience with the tools. You need to be comfortable with the systems sitting infront of you. You can't get that from a computer or a textbook.

So if the smell is that bad, or if you feel soo strongly against dissection then becoming a DVM is not the right proffession for you. Try Vet Assistant. I don't believe they need to get down and dirty with dissection but your still there with the animals. There is no amount of technology in this world that will replace that hands on experience and feel. You'll only get so far before you hit a road block.

[kismert]

Note that vivisection (cutting or operating on a living body for experimental purposes) is different from dissection (cutting on an already dead animal).
The ethical trend is clearly away from vivisection - no one on this forum would seriously advocate it - but dissection of humanely euthanized animals or animals that died a natural death is generally recognized as a necessary learning step for the veterinary sciences, just as dissecting cadavers is still an essential part of a medical student's training.
-Ken

[Ly&Pigs]

When I was in my senior year of high school (25 years ago I might add), we had to dissect cats. I did ask where the cats came from and our class was told that these were cats that had been hit by cars or had already died from illness or injury. So it wasn't like the cats were taken from a shelter or breeder and killed so we could dissect them. It was a good learning experience. The smell isn't so bad after the first day or so of dissection.

If you go to medical school, you have to dissect dead human bodies. If you go to DVM school, I'm sure you will have to work with dead animals. If you can't handle it, then you don't need to be going to vet school.

Originally Posted by AngelGal

I'm a Vet Tech student, and I plan to attend Vet school afterward (mixed animal). IMHO this is NOT a class that needs to be in highschool. This should be a class you take when you get INTO college for DVM.

This is a human anatomy and physiology class that is dissecting cats. It's not an animal A&P class.

[Cagney]

A smudge of vicks under the nose works wonders, I think someone might have already mentioned that. You do get used to the smell though. Also you might want to consider that if the medical smell gets to you, how are you going to deal with smells that come from animals?

As a vet tech I can smell something infested with maggots a mile away. It's just a smell you know after being exposed to it. And you will be exposed to many many worse smells in your veterinary career. Honestly not many have the patience for a Vet that can't handle a bad smell. Not trying to be rude, because some people really can't tolerate it. If you find you are one of those people another career choice might be in order.

[Deenanicole08]

Oh, I just remembered this. In my highschool, when I was there, no one was brutally slicing and dicing. The teachers who do this with the students are very strict about these things. They only thing being broken is the ribs to open the chest, and when removing an organ you have to be extrememly careful, because how can you further examine something that is totally destroyed before it even gets out of the body?

[gooberific]

I had to have my teachers do the jaw bone and rib portions of the fetal pigs, because we had to take out parts of the throat, as well. I couldn't bear to do the breaking because of the sound.

[BubuCandyBlue]

I agree with Angegal and kismert, Cagney, Ly, sorry if I missed someone. I have a friend that teaches at Medicine University, and also works at the hospital laboratory. She has told me many stories about her coming so far. She has told me in her 1st or 2nd year, when she was in college, they had to disect bodies. Many of her colleagues felt very sick, but in less then 2 months they got used to it and had no problem even eating around a dissected body. Disturbing to me, but not to her eww! Give it some time, it will be bad at first, but if you don't get used tot this, your future as a vet will not succeed. You need to handle you fear and dare in order to follow your dream! What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger darl. I can see your point of view, and indeed some things make no sense like skinning an animal or stuff like that. But you have to get over the dissecting part.

[Angelgal]

It's not something everyone can handle.
It may be a highschool class (which shouldn't be offered in a highschool IMO) but that doesn't mean you treat the animal with any less respect. Sure the class may not be learning as in-depth as an Anatomy & Physiology class for Veterinary Technology but dissection is still a careful and precise thing, because if you're not careful then it defeates the purpose of education.
Online dissections could very well be used for Highschool, however for education for a proffession is a total different story and you'll need that hands on experience. Like I couldn't do an online dissection and then go to work on a real animal in surgery and expect it to be the same thing, I'd be totally clueless. Highschools being respectful or disrespectful to the animal can go either way, mine wasn't, which is why I don't feel dissections should be in the highschool classroom... but it can go either way and that's the sad part. IN college/university that's very different and if you're not careful, fallowing the proffessors strict instructions or treating the animal with respect then you can (and will be) in serious trouble.

If you're going to do it, ask where the animals have come from. The majority of the animals I had to dissect last semester came from the animal shelter and were older or had medical resons for them to be euthanized. They weren't bred or bought specifically for it.

Trust me when I say, there are many worse smells out there in the Veterinary field then the smell when you dissect an animal.

Though I want to add, to those who don't think skinning an animal makes sense, it makes life a little easier in dissection to keep things out of the way in the abdominal area and for viewing/learning about muscles. It's a very time-consuming task because you have to be so careful with it. Only the areas being used should be skinned.

[salana]

If you cut a tumor out of Jackie's skin, I would want you to be able to carefully peel the surrounding skin off the muscle and cut it away to provide clear margins, and then to stretch the skin together to suture. And if you were spaying Suzi I would want you to know what all the organs look, feel, and smell like (both normally and with disease) so you could pull out the right parts. And if you were doing a necropsy on Doom, I would want you to carefully and respectfully break his ribs to take the tumor out of his chest, intact, and send it off for histopathology.

[sophistacavy]

Thank you everyone for your input. I honestly never ever considered doing the whole Vicks Vapo-rub or peppermint oil thing. I'm pretty sure (since I know myself best) that if I do that, I will be just fine. Also, my teacher said that he ordered cats that were packed in a new fermaldihyde-free wetting solution called bio-fresh or something like that, and that it doesn't smell nearly as bad as fermaldihyde.
I can't wait! I hope its really as fascinating as I imagine it will be.

And yes, it is intended to be a human anatomy & physiology class, but I, out of my whole [small] class, am at a particular advantage because we dissect an animal, and I want to be a vet. And of course in high school, we can't dissect human cadavers, so we have to use animals.

And I apologize if anyone thinks that high schools shouldn't dissect anything "real". But fyi, I'm in Anat.&Physiology 1, dissecting cats. In anat.&physiology 2, which my school also offers, they dissect dogs. When I was a sophmore 2 years ago, the anatomy class (I'm not sure which one) had a fetal cow. That was the single most fascinating thing I had ever seen in my whole life. I was literally like "Holy cow!". P.S.: The teacher brought it across the hall into my biology class for us to see while we were doing frogs. I got to touch it and everything, it was completely amazing!

Thanks again everyone who replied for your input!

[khptown]

The high school I attended offered an anotomy class and students did the same thing. The deseaced cats were donated. They were not killed in order to do a dissection on them by any means. I totally messed up the dissection of my earth worm, so I could not even imagine dissecting a cat. Maybe it isn't too late to withdraw from the course, if you really feel that uncomfortable about it. Talk to you guidance counselor. Maybe there is a horticulture or a higher biology class you can take instead. You will get plenty experience in your college courses anyway.

[Peggysu]

I saw someone mention a smudge of vicks under the nose and it does work great with a mask. That way when you breathe out of your mouth you won't taste it! I use it when I deal with stinky patients. Also pictures are great but it doesn't compare to the real thing at all! I know from experience. Pictures don't haunt me but sometimes the real things I have seen do.