Freedom of Speech Clarification

[WICavy]

I'm really not trying to pick fights or single anyone out. I do like being a member here. But, I'm confused, what is the "policy" on freedom of speech?
Since my posted was deleted (which I understand why it was. It wasn't appropriate on the orginal thread), I'm going to re-ask my question, because I felt it was legitimate.

http://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/399075-post32.html

Ly&Pigs stated, "...This is a private site so Freedom of Speech really doesn't apply here."

But, she stated, "...I was very offended by your comment of "Freedom of speach does not apply in Teresa's forum" and I am sure that Teresa is as well. No one bans freedom of speech here."

(See: http://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/57181-post121.html)

I understand I'm running a risk of being banned for questioning the opinions of a moderator, but it's not my goal. Like I said, I do like being a member here, but I don't like having my opinions stomped all over with policies. I have a right to my own thoughts as much as anyone else here. I like said in a different post, from now on I'll take some things to private messages. (See #20 on http://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/...treatment.html)

[Paula]

If you really aren't trying to "pick fights," why wouldn't you just quietly send a private message to Ly or Teresa (or another moderator here) expressing your concerns and asking your questions, instead of posting your question and citing examples in a thread to be read by all?

[WICavy]

Because I think it's a question for everyone. I'd like to see what other think. Not just the moderators.

[Paula]

Are you trying to see what everyone thinks the policy on freedom of speech should be, or what it actually is? The latter is most definitely a question for the moderators, not everyone else.

[gooberific]

In my opinion, being moderated is a good thing. This site is viewed by international members, not just those within the United States, which has the First Amendment's "freedom of speech." In order to have accurate information, I believe the moderators and users of this site cannot have people posting just willy-nilly, or with misleading or dangerous information.

Also, First Amendment law can be tricky. From the little that I studied it years ago, I have always recalled since that while we have the freedom to express ourselves, we still cannot infringe upon others' "inalienable right to ... the pursuit of happiness." Freedom of speech also is restricted wherever you agree to it, be it school, workplace, or internet sites.

[WICavy]

Okay I understand that if I give my opinion and a moderator doesn't agree with it, but another user ask me for more information (because people are free to make their own choices), it would be more appropriate to take it to private messages with that individual on the specifics.

But what if I want to question the opinion of the moderator? Shouldn't others be allowed to join the conversation with their take on the situation to get balanced advice? Or are we not allowed to question the advice of the moderators publicly?

I admit I made a mistake in going to name calling. (I shouldn't have been replying while upset, sorry to all I offended). I know I could have handled my response better. (http://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/398905-post17.html)

[gooberific]

Questioning the OPINION of a moderator, or anyone, I don't think is an issue. However, in order to be taken seriously for debate, the questioning itself shouldn't be inflammatory, accusatory, or anything "rude." It can be difficult to get words and feelings across the way they were intended when using a text medium. Along that line, in general people do not always take criticism well.

For example, I have seen several posts questioning where the information has come from, like Ly's extensive diet research. I'm sure that being a moderator here might get frustrating -- having to answer the same questions over and over again. I know I wouldn't have the patience for it!! There's a search feature for a reason, you know?!

The point is that when a moderator or experienced member gives advice, or warnings, they do so with facts to back them up. If it's a subjective opinion on something non-piggies related, then it is my belief that they are entitled to their opinion, and if anyone wishes to question their opinion, the proper question would be, "Why do you think that way?" Most people have based opinions on facts or conjecture, and asking for the reasoning behind their opinions is SUPPOSED to lead to a learning experience.

And I always believe that heated debates, definitely belong in The Kitchen section.

[BubuCandyBlue]

I agree with gooberific. We all have that freedom of speech and the free will. But what happens when you want to do anything that crosses your mind? Then we realize we live in a society, and we must follow some rules, otherwise chaos would be everywhere. So we are not that free after all huh? There are always "only if.."'s
Same goes for this forum. You can state many things, but in the end, in this case, it all can affect GP's in a way or another. What happens when you make certain statements that you think they are good for your pet but they are not? Well, new members might get very confused, not knowing better, so that is why moderators are very strict in what we state. This forum stands for the well care of piggies and bad information must be erased.
Questioning the opinion of the moderator is done very frequently, in The kitchen area. Things usually get very heated and they might go very personally to some. Moderators are there for a reason, and usually because they can handle it. Arguments should not be on a forum, but they happen everywhere. That is why there are rules, each forum has some, a society has them too after all, harsher or less. So we always have that freedom of speech "only if..." And we always have to handle that part.

[Paula]

I absolutely think anyone has the right to question policies and to question moderators/administrators and their rules. I think that it’s a lot more appropriate to discuss it with one or more of them privately, though, rather than listing quotes and posts where a mod might have contradicted herself. If you look at the specific circumstances for each of the comments Ly made, what she said in both cases, at least to me, makes sense.

But in the end, I think it matters more what the moderators and administrators want than what the members might want. It might not seem fair in all cases, but I think that in the case of this website the mods have more of a “bigger picture” view and act accordingly.

For what it’s worth, I don’t really think “free speech” applies here. It’s a private website owned by a private person and what she allows or doesn’t is her business. I think Teresa and the other mods do a great job of shutting down what needs to be shut down and getting involved in what needs their involvement.

I can appreciate that you are sorry for what you might have said in a post, but I think you should say it in that thread, instead of posting links to it over and over again and trying to find posts and quotes where the mods might have seemed to contradict themselves that might make your case for you.

[WICavy]

Well, I decided to stay away from that thread for now, which is why I started this thread.

Thank you everyone for your answers; my question is answered

I hope we're all on good terms now and can agree to disagree on certain points. I'll try to keep my offensive opinions private

[Henle15]

The whole problem with the other thread is that you made a opinion based expression and the facts (truth) was different than what you were talking about. Yes you have the freedom of speech, but not when it is based on no facts at all.

Along with the freedom of speech comes the resonsibility to speak truthly and not based on what you think, but rather upon fact. Opinions are fine, but facts are what will get you more respect

The fact is sunflower seeds are fattening and not good for pigs and you still don't understand that. Yes a few here and there will not kill them, but they still aren't good for them and you stated that they were fine. The facts are against you and until you can prove that sunflower seeds are not fattening you cannot say they are fine.

I think you have opinion and fact mixed up and that is why you are being told not to give out false information.

[hueyeats]

I have an easy parallel...

You can have all the freedom of speech in your own house, your own site. But you have to "own" it.

When you go to visit a club house/gym etc. because they contain hobbies you like, you honor their ways and rules as respected because it is not your house. Just a membership place that even if you paid for that membership & have certain priviledges, does not necessarily mean you can have "freedom of speech" as you like.

I belong to a paid gym membership myself and I remember in the policies that even though I paid to use that facilities, certain behaviours (speech, actions or otherwise) if deemed unacceptable will have my membership revoked!

So, do not be mad about "freedom of speech"... just respect that this site is not "your" house, you do not "own" it. You'd be OK with everything.

[WICavy]

Thanks hueyeats

[hueyeats]

Originally Posted by WICavy

Thanks hueyeats

You are very welcome. Hope you have a great 2009 here.

[bizziesdad]

And besides all of that the truth is the moderators do what they want, when they want, how they want in whatever manner they see fit.

Disagreement of any fashion will only serve to have you booted from the site comrade.

[sophistacavy]

Originally Posted by bizziesdad

And besides all of that the truth is the moderators do what they want, when they want, how they want in whatever manner they see fit.

Disagreement of any fashion will only serve to have you booted from the site comrade.

WIcavy just apologized very nicely and politely for what she did, so why did you affront her so rudely like that? Also, that is 0% true on here. As has been said since the beginning of time (when this forum was first "born" I'm sure), you can disagree with anyone you want on here, it will never get you banned from the forum, only if you take it to some sickening extreme.
Also, this has been said before too, but if you disagree with somebody on here and you feel the need to discuss it with them, then you can use a private message to do so, in respect to the mod's and yours personal lives.

I guess you just didn't read this whole thread, but if you do that, you'd see what I mean.

[Paula]

Originally Posted by bizziesdad

Disagreement of any fashion will only serve to have you booted from the site comrade.

If that were true, many, many people would be banned. When you look through the extensive list of members, relatively few of them have been banned, so what you're saying doesn't make any sense.

Furthermore, the mods here don't do "what they want, when they want," they do what's best for this site and do their best to keep everything on track, focused and fair. They have rules that are relatively simple and easy to follow, and yes, as moderators, they do their best to ensure that everyone who is a member here follows those rules and guidelines.

[salana]

I do what I want, when I want? Then I guess I'll blow off giving people advice, and I'll blow off trying to calm down argumentative threads, and I'll blow off actually working...most of all, I'll blow off reading people whining about how meeeeen we mods are. Then I can spend all day playing Spore.

And the number ONE thing I'm going to blow off is banning stupid kids who make multiple accounts because people caught on to them with the first account. I hate that kind of stuff.

[breezy2]

I think the problem is many people come onto forums to make friends with similar interests to them. Many want to come on and say things like oh look at my precious little guinea pig whom I keep in a huge store bought cage, give hartz pellets to with all these pretty little extras in it, zupreem hay seems to be what he likes most, etc. This site is not about making friends, although I am sure many of you have made friends on here. It is about guinea pigs getting the best possible care they can get. I know for a fact that wicavy is looking to do the best for her guinea pig. Just read her threads, it is obvious. But when it comes to giving information that some people, including moderators, find to be inaccurate, you are going to be called on it. Especially if they find it harmful to the cavy. You may or may not agree with it, if you disagree, you can go on doing what they are saying is bad or you can figure if there is even a chance of it being bad, do I really want to do it? I guess in a way it is your "Freedom of Speech" to carry on the argument, but the moderators don't want even 10 people deciding well if this person does it, I can too. They are looking out for the best of all cavies. If I had a differing opinion, I would maybe pm it to the moderators and maybe they will agree or disagree. The world is full of people with differing opinions. I am very sure you could find someone to agree with you somewhere, if you are looking for acceptance or you could stay here and know that the owners of this site are definitely looking out for the good of the cavy.

And this is not to wicavy, because again I think she is looking out for the best interest of her piggy. It is just a general answer to my opinion of the topic.

[katiewilson]

Originally Posted by bizziesdad

Disagreement of any fashion will only serve to have you booted from the site comrade.

Yes. Which is why poor WICavy was never heard from...ever...ever...again...

Holy potatoes, man. Life is dramatic enough, and this is a guinea pig forum. Take some time to stop and smell the parsley.