What's your opinion on this..

[Mhera]

I know we, as a website community are entirely against petstores for breeding guinea pigs, but what about mice that are bred for snake food? I myself buy mice from a store that's not one of the huge commercial petstores, she breeds them in her store and are taken care of fine. That's the only live thing she sells. They also do the occasional adoption if someone drops off an animal. Is this the kind of petstore we are looking to support?

In fact, petsmart only sells frozen mice that are treated with chemicals that might make the snake sick.

In fact, I guess the real question is, is the mouse a pet when you buy it or is the snake a pet? It's rather unfair for the snake to eat dead-for-a-while-popsicle-mouse, which was a mouse to begin with and died probably in a less natural way.

Not to scare you about the snake pet thing, my snake is kept in a different room and is too small to eat guinea pigs. And we adopted her.

[Ly&Pigs]

There are alternatives when it comes to snake food. There are frozen foods that can be fed that aren't full of chemicals. Talk to Voodoojoint more about these alternatives as she has at least one rescue snake she's caring for (maybe more, can't remember) and she feeds some type of frozen meal.

I guess the real question is, is the mouse a pet when you buy it or is the snake a pet?

It's not a question of whether the petstores are selling animals for food or animals for pets, but the fact that they are selling live animals.

[breezy2]

Something I don't like to think about. Sure I know it is the circle of life, but I could never feed a live animal or even insect to another animal. For those who do have snakes or reptiles, I guess they have to feed them something, I just prefer not to think about it.

[Peggysu]

I can feed crickets but I could never feed a mouse. It freaks me out.

[sophistacavy]

I've fed mealworms and crickets live before, but never mice, and I probably could do it if it wasn't my snake (like if I was pet-sitting or just helping someone out), but if I ever had a pet snake, I would do what Ly said, look into alternatives such as the frozen mice without chemicals. Catching a wild mouse would first of all be an unreliable way for many people to get a steady food source for the snake, and the wild mouse could have parasites. If you get a commercially available frozen mouse, then it's free from parasites, and its not a live animal that a pet shop is selling even if you do buy it from a pet shop's freezer.
But as Ly said, it's still that the pet shop is selling live animals, so it gives the impression that its still ok for them to do so, and for people to buy live animals from them.

They sell all sorts of frozen, chemical free prey animals like that (NOT cavies fyi) for pet ferrets to eat if you use that alternative diet plan for your ferret. More than just mice, they have rats, chicks, frogs, etc....I have the Ferrets for Dummies book, thats where I first learned about it. Really gross, but waaay better than subjecting a live animal to a ferret or snake or whatever else.

[Tserisa]

Live mice should not be fed to a snake anyway, as they are dangerous to the snake. Many many snakes have been seriously injured, gotten horrible infections, and even died from live food. All rodents should be fed pre-killed in a humane fashion.

There are a few snakes -- especially among some of the less commonly kept species -- that will refuse pre-killed food. However, every effort should be made, for the good of the snake as well as for the good of the animal being fed to the snake, to convert that snake to pre-killed.

Most frozen rodents do not contain chemicals. You can order them directly over the internet to avoid shopping at pet stores that sell animals.

[Fishguy2727]

Many snakes won't ever switch over to frozen/thawed. All live feeders should be knocked out first unless they cannot bite (pinkies and fuzzies). Simply tossing in a live rat or mouse is bad practice, asking for issues.

I don't see a different in a pet store selling live or frozen, either way they are making a demand for the production of rodents, an essential part of owning reptiles.

I don't think it should be as much of an issues of selling live animals in general, but an issues of the care those animals reveive and the advice the store gives out.

[rabbitsncavyluv]

Frozen is more humane? But I guess it depend on how they are putting down the mice/rats first. Just whacking them is not humane in my opinion. Either way most of the snakes in captivity that people are keeping as pets or in small tanks in pet stores shouldn't be in captivity. Most are not housing them correctly in habitats.

[PiggieMamaKelly]

Originally Posted by Ly&Pigs

There are alternatives when it comes to snake food. There are frozen foods that can be fed that aren't full of chemicals. Talk to Voodoojoint more about these alternatives as she has at least one rescue snake she's caring for (maybe more, can't remember) and she feeds some type of frozen meal.

It's not a question of whether the petstores are selling animals for food or animals for pets, but the fact that they are selling live animals.

Are you recommending frozen pre-killed mice, or synthetic mice-like food?

[auburnmare5]

I think only dead food should be fed to a snake anyways. If the live animal rebels, the animal could injure the snake. I don't think any store that sells animals should be supported.

[Tserisa]

Frozen mice from commercial operations are almost all killed through CO2, which is considered one of the most humane ways to put an animal to sleep, while preserving the safety of feeding the animal to another. It is certainly more humane than hitting them, or being struck and suffocated by a snake. It is also cheap for large numbers of animals, so even feeder breeders who are less than compassionate about their rodents tend to use it anyway.

As for how they were treated before death -- that's where it usually gets particularly awful. Feeder rodents in commercial organizations are rarely treated well, kept in racks with no stimulation, etc.

[Ly&Pigs]

Originally Posted by PiggieMamaKelly

Are you recommending frozen pre-killed mice, or synthetic mice-like food?

I never recommended either. I don't have enough knowledge about snakes or their diet. What I recommended was talking to VoodooJoint about what she feeds her rescue snake(s).

[CDErin]

Ive thought about this quite a lot before as I was thinking of getting a snake but didnt because of the feeding mice/rats. Not because I dont like the idea of the actual feeding, more because I would want to raise the mice or rats myself.

I know that at first raising own live food doesnt sound great but I would personally have prefered it so that I had control over the conditions that they were kept in before being killed. I only buy meat for myself that is free range (because of welfare and also I think its better health wise) so I would want the equivalent for my snake. It would mean I could have plenty of space for the mice as well as control the breeding so that they are not over bred. Main reason I decided in the end against the idea of having a snake is that I just dont have the room to keep enough mice in the conditions I would want.

[dra&pigs]

I believe that SnakeCharmer, when he still posted regularly, said that live food was not good for a snake, because it could injure or even kill the snake. However, I am no snake expert, so I cannot make any personal recommendations on a snake diet.

[5guinea5pig5]

Yes SnakeCharmer did say that.

[VoodooJoint]

Feeding live is inhumane for both reptiles and prey. If anyone disagrees then perhaps you should start catching and killing your own animals with your bare hands (if you eat meat) that might get the fact across that it is traumatic for both sides.

I don't find the "circle of life" line as a credible excuse. There is nothing at all natural about throwing a domestic animal into a small, enclosed area with a wild predator.

If it's so natural and acceptable to feed live then I'd like to know why the vast majority of reputable zoos feed their reptiles prekilled prey?

Originally Posted by Mhera

In fact, petsmart only sells frozen mice that are treated with chemicals that might make the snake sick.

I have no idea where you got your information. Petsmart sells T-Rex products. They are one of the most humane and respected companies for pre killed prey products. I've personally spoken to the owner of the company on the phone a couple of times when I was researching their product to see if it was one I should use/endorse. The owner seems to take the humane treatment of the mice/rats very seriously, insures they are humanely killed and most of all insists that they be a natural, safe, and humane food source for animals that eat whole prey.

Originally Posted by Fishguy2727

Many snakes won't ever switch over to frozen/thawed.

False, most will make the switch. I have helped dozens of people make the humane switch and every single one had success. Most people don't bother trying, do it wrong or they don't bother making the extra effort it may take at first.

Originally Posted by Fishguy2727

All live feeders should be knocked out first unless they cannot bite (pinkies and fuzzies).

Unless a person has had professional training by a humane and competent veterinarian to hand kill/render an animal unconscious--and that person has the natural skill and fortitude to appropriately complete the task-- then they absolutely should not do it. I could tell you horror stories of the suffering inept people caused prey animals by trying to kill or stun them themselves. It shouldn't be hard for you to imagine what can and usually does happen.

In short there is absolutely no good reason NOT to feed pre killed prey. If it wasn't a viable alternative then the UK would not have a law against feeding live animals to reptiles (you have to have a special permit to feed live in the UK).

[guineapigluver1]

Any animal can have they're food switched (just as long as you aren't switching a plant eating animal to meat eating or vice versa), it's just a matter of perseverance and patience.

[5guinea5pig5]

I just have a question that I'm dieing to know. How do they humanely kill the mice?

[AnmlLvr14]

I think it may have been mentioned somewhere above: they gas them with CO2. That way no chemicals are injected into them.

I have worked at two different zoos and all animals are fed pre-killed prey (except for feeder insects). We would feed live pinkies to some animals, but never anything older than a pinkie. Before feeding snakes, the mice/rats were put into warm water. After all, snakes look for warmth rather than something moving.

[VoodooJoint]

Originally Posted by 5guinea5pig5

I just have a question that I'm dieing to know. How do they humanely kill the mice?

T-rex uses CO2 chambers to euthanize the mice. It's chemical free and requires minimal handling/stress to the animal.