Tired of People...all of them.

[PrayerWarrior]

Originally Posted by Drawingwords

P.S.- I did give him money. Wasn't much. I would have given anyone money too, including rescues, more than they would have asked. So before you say anything Prayer, it would have been just as bad if I took them for free. At least maybe the guy can spend that money on some food.

Drawing, I was hoping to be able to defend you, believe it or not. That's why I didn't say anything until my question was answered.

That's just icing on the cake, though. You have offended me personally by judging me and making the assumption I would attack you, and you have offended my beliefs by *giving a breeder money.* You can't justify that, hard as you may try.

[PIGGYMAMMA495]

[quote=PIGGYMAMMA495;383344

And maybe as you stated above its easier to just avoid or not respond to certain posts because its just drawing more attention to a negative subject. So I think from now on if we spot something that is questionable we should just not feed the trolls at all.[/quote]
I just wanted to clear up a few PM's I have recieved on my post that I have quoted above me here. I was not in any way saying that Drawing Words is a TROLL or a FLAMER. I just was responding to the person who put that maybe we should just avoid responding to any topic that can get out of hand or be controversial.(sp)
I do think though in general if someone in general is on the site and is just fighting to fight for no reason and has no way to justify what they are saying then we should just ignore them. I didnt mean anyone in specific. Just wanted to clear that up.

[Drawingwords]

Well, I've clarified everything from my end. I'm done talking about this. About the guinea pigs though; if I post any questions on the care of this animal, which is what this message board is intended for, will you treat me like I'm incompetant. I did not mean this at all to lead this way. I have listened, read, digested all you have said on this site and other sites. The deed is done, so what do you want me to do. Yes, this is a question. Should I leave this bored because of this?

Prayer- Sorry I offended you. Again, if I gave him money it would have been bad and if I didn't offer money it would have been bad. Catch twenty-two situation. Also, I guess I was a little sick and tired of people assuming about me. Also twisting things I posted. And everyone, I've reread my posts and my story doesn't seem to falter at all to me. I didn't type as much in detail but that's about it.

ETA: When Piggymamma said when people can be rude, some things like this quote,

"You saved one pig. BFD. By your own admission, there were many others there, just waiting to become snake food. You didn't save them or do anything to ensure their safety."

...are unecessary and rude.

[suzilovespiggie]

Many of us did the very thing you did when we first got a GP. Bought from a petstore, breeder or 4-H. It was done in ignorance. Coming on to this site we learned the horrors of petstores, breeders and 4-H. From education we learned to adopt from rescues or shelters, not just for GP's but for all animals that are in desperate need.
From your posts you were not ignorant in this matter that is the one difference so many are upset about. Ok, now hopefully you have learned to adopt and not buy the next time. Yes, you will learn all you need to know for the very best care of your GP, but this site is far more than just that. It is about the big picture not just for GP's but for saving all animals from inhumane practices.
Instead of taking offense of all that has been said, learn from it and do better the next time.
When I came on the site over 3 years ago I was ignorant of how passionate members were. I told a member to get a GP from a 4-H member. Boy, did I get told! ok. Not only that I kept my piggies in plastic tupperware, fed wrong. All ok by what I thought. So I didn't take offense, I stayed, read, and learned not just about the care but the bigger picture for all animals. I have changed my care of my GP's and my own lifestyle to help all the animals in need. I too have become passionate of the principals and ethics of the site. They have become my life and passion to stop all cruelty and inhumane practices thru petstores, breeders and 4-H.
So read Drawing this site is filled with the best education you will ever find.
Keep us posted because we do care for your GP's you and the bigger picture.

[Taboo]

Coming on to this site we learned the horrors of petstores, breeders and 4-H.

What is 4-H? I briefly remember hearing about it somewhere but can't remember where.

[AnimalHouse36]

4-H is a program where kids learn about farm animals. They can breed there "projects" and show them. Its a sick thing.

[PIGGYMAMMA495]

Wow so you mean 4h really is teaching young children to breed and show. That is so terriable. See now that worries me for the future of what children are going to be taught. The 4h around here is huge and there are hundreds and hundreds of kids and families in it. They even pass out fliers at school to join on a monthly basis.
I just thought they learned about animals and if they had them, they could share on their experiences and learn about them.
Thats terriable, How oh my...I'll stop there. But thank you to whoever posted that 4h does breeder teachings. Im going to check to make sure that they still dont have a guinea pig/rabbit club in their group. Last time I spoke with someone they told me they did need a leader for small animals since they have no rabbit/guinea pig person. But whoosh I'll be dam'd. Thanks

[Drawingwords]

The whole concept of 4-H isn't inherently bad. The main purpose of the 4-H when it began was to teach children about farming, care of animals, etc. When your family farms, that is your main source of income so families pass down the career to their kids. Honestly, I've seen both sides of the 4-H. There are people that take wonderful care of their animals and such and really love what they do. Then there are those who I've seen dragging goats by the neck at a farm show (Which is big here by the way.)

I honestly don't think they realize that breeding is such a big problem because that is what they were raised to do. Maybe if people passed out flyers to the 4-H describing the dangers of breeding and *why*, they could have a better understanding of why not to do it.

[terramama]

I don't mean to drag the conversation away from what was being discussed-but...my daughter just asked last week if she could join 4-H because her best friend takes part in it. I told her that I needed to know more-now a lot more. I never saw 4-H as an advocate of breeding/showing-but you are right-any fair around here you go to-and that is what it is- breeding and showing ("show quality") animals. I guess I will have to say no, but explain. Does anyone have any web site/links or anything that can help me with her-she is 10-and a member of PETA kids. Thanks(sorry this is off topic).

[Taboo]

4-H sounds awful. Like MORE kids need to be tauught to breed and show.
I do hope they teach kids that "farm animals" are just as good as any other animal though. It annoys me so much on how most people view "farm animals"- which is why I put it in quotes. Even hearing the word "farm animals'' makes me mad.

[diane]

There are more things than just animal projects in 4-H. There are all kinds like rocketry, engines, cooking, sewing, photography and the list goes on and on. And in Indiana if a child wants to do an animal project they can use live animals or do a poster project about a specific animal. 4-H is only bad if you make it so.

[Henle15]

4-H is not all bad. Some of the programs are good and some are not so good. I agree with Diane and say that it is bad only if you make it that way. Also it is more geared towards farm animals and not so much domesticated animals. It does teach some good values if the right people are running the program.

[frashy]

I joined 4-H a while back, when I was younger, and was going to enter my piggie George. But lazy me, did not want to be at the fair early in the morning, every day, having all those people looking at him, and being around hundreds of other pigs. That was about 7 years ago. Obviously since then, having found this site, I've learned even more.

And actually, am wondering, I know 4-H all around my area does not show guinea pigs anymore. Glad to hear, but curious on their reason on why. Any one know about why exactly? I've been wondering for over a year now..since I found out that they don't.

[diane]

In my county if you do have a small animal like guinea pigs they do not stay at the fair. You do an presentation with your pet. And last I knew (five years ago) the judges didn't touch your animal. They judged you based on how well you could interact and how informed you were on your pet and their needs.

[suzilovespiggie]

4-H in AZ is very big. I was involved with GP and rabbits. All of my early pigs came from 4-H. They were the rejects. The one's that were not the right color, did not win a ribbon, weighed to much or to little, had pea eye.
Our local Humane Society hates 4-H, as after the fair where these aniamls are shown, are given to the Shelter for the above reasons or "the kids" want to breed for the perfect GP for the next fair. At the fair itself, piggies are kept in very small cages on a dirt floor. The dust and the traffic of people and kids are hundreds to see the cute little animals. They get fingers and all kinds of objects stuck into the cages. Many pigs and rabbits go home with resperitory infections. Every year pigs, rabbits, birds die from the heat. Our fair is in April, we can have 100 degree heat in April. At the end of fair there is a auction. Any child can auction the animals for money or put a sign on the cage that, that animal is for sale. Again those animals that dont make any money goes to the shelter.
I no longer do 4-H. Even when I was in it I hate what I saw at fair. Both of my rabbits came from kids who after fair, their rabbits did not do well. the kids knew I would take their "rejects". They were not rejects to me.
Yes there is other projects in 4-H. the animals should not be a part of it.

[gooberific]

The State fair isn't that much better, either. AZ's state fair is usually in October or November. I haven't gone in a few years, but I always go look at the animals when I'm there. The last time I went, they had cages there for piggies, but nothing in them with a note saying that all small animals go home after their day at the fair. And the cages were up on tables, but very very tiny.

And regarding AZ heat in April... I got married in March of 07... it was 102.