Tired of People...all of them.

[gooberific]

Originally Posted by frashy

Why would a breeder give away a FREE pig? Isn't their objective to make money off breeding the pigs?

Some of the breeders out there only want "show-quality" pigs, and any litters that they have that may have been inbred to a certain point or their colors aren't perfect, they deem them "pet quality" and shove them out the door asap.

[Taboo]

Originally Posted by gooberific

Some of the breeders out there only want "show-quality" pigs, and any litters that they have that may have been inbred to a certain point or their colors aren't perfect, they deem them "pet quality" and shove them out the door asap.

So THAT'S why y'all are against showing! I never really thought about where teh show animals come from before.

[Henle15]

Not all breeders are breeding for money. Many don't make much money at all and acutally do it for the joy and show them. If the person is breeding for the joy of it, they are still taking homes away from others that have no homes. I think your situtation is different bennalaya, because if the person was acutally going to stop breeding and you know that for sure, you did the right thing because there aren't others that are waiting in line to be food like drawingword's situation.

Even when a person is giving them away and not making money, if you take the pigs from them, they will replace those with new ones. Some backyard breeders only breed to have babies and then get rid of the older ones. They seem to have a baby fetish and then discard the older ones.

As long as people keep breeding there will always be an overpopulation problem. As long as people keep "rescuing" from breeders, petstores, and backyard breeders, there will also always be an overpopulation problem.

Its a cycle that will never stop as long as the attitude is "its ok to take an animal from a breeder or petstore" "at least I helped that one" "I didn't give them any money so they are not profiting".

You have to at least understand where most of us are coming from and cannot fault us for posting what we do. I understand what you were trying to do, but it is no different than buying a pig because that person works with the same concept of I get rid of one and then I will replace that one and get rid of that one, and then the cycle continues forever until they cannot get rid of the piggies anymore.

Do you understand that rescues and shelters do NOT want to exist? We don't do it because we are looking to make money, we do it because otherwise those animals would die or live inhumanely. We are trying to run ourselves out of business, not stay in business.

[frashy]

I don't think business would be the technical term, considering in a business you actually make money (or so that's the objective). Shelters, it's purely spending money. Non-profit organizations are what they would be.

[Henle15]

Yes a rescue and/or shelter is a business. Its a non-profit business like you stated Frashy, but still a business.

You just can't make a profit is all and all money has to be used to help your rescue operations. The business model is just different than a normal for profit business you are thinking of.

[Bennalaya]

Originally Posted by Taboo

So THAT'S why y'all are against showing! I never really thought about where teh show animals come from before.

Well, that's usually not the only reason. Showing is also a part of networking for breeders to "show off their wares", so to speak. Animal shows do not benefit the animals. In fact, the types of conditions show quality animals are forced to endure to protect their "aesthetic value", are downright cruel. The incessant grooming, the constant crating, severe restriction of outdoor play time. For example, dog shows are a way for breeders to make their breeding dogs more profitable. The better the pedigree, the more trophies and blue ribbons, the more money the breeder can command for the pups.

Then, once they are no longer useful for breeding and showing, they are often euthanized as they no longer serve a purpose in the breeder's eyes. My sister is a veterinary technician and she has to deal with breeders and showers on a daily basis. She said about half of all breeders that have patients at her vet clinic request to euthanize "out of service" breeding/show dogs and cats.

It's exploitation and does nothing for the animals but condemn them to a life that is confined to being forced to "stay pretty" and continue to pop out litter after litter of expensive babies.

Originally Posted by Henle15

Do you understand that rescues and shelters do NOT want to exist? We don't do it because we are looking to make money, we do it because otherwise those animals would die or live inhumanely. We are trying to run ourselves out of business, not stay in business.

I just wanted to say that I truly appreciate all of the hard work that those of you here do who run a rescue. When I had my boars I adopted them from a rescue. She, sadly, is no longer living in this area or rescuing. But, when I went to her home to pick up my boys it amazed me. She and her family had selflessly put their comfort and the decorative appeal of their home on the back burner to make ample space for the multiple, large C&C cages where she housed her rescued cavies. She had three children, was pregnant with her fourth, worked a part-time job outside the home AND dedicated countless hours and dollars to rescuing cavies.

She did not profit monetarily from the rescue. The mere $20 adoption fee could not touch the amount of money she spent on supplies, cage bedding, water bottles, coroplast, food, veterinary care, etc.

There are many days I wish I had more space in my home, because my area desperately needs a Guinea Pig rescue.

[Bennalaya]

Edited: Double post. My apologies. Moderators, please feel free to delete this. I am merging this post with my previous one.

[AnimalHouse36]

Bananalaya I have one more thing to add:

Whe you bring a guinea pig to a shpw, its very loud and there are all those people. See it fromt he eyes a a small prey animal. How scary would that be? Also, whe you bring a guinea pig to a show it is pro to MANY dieseces. Other than that I think you covered it Bananalaya.

[PIGGYMAMMA495]

Okay. Let's first go back to the VERY first Post that drawingwords wrote:

I feel that basically what she was trying to vent out in the proper forum area in the kitchen was that she was sick of how cruel people can be...meaning exactly that breeder.
And I think it totally stinks and is unfair to people like drawing who try to do the right thing but looking online for a piggy then show up and they aren't really adopting out a piggy, they are breeders in sheeps clothes.

And to be very frank, I understand that everyone on here has made solid points on here stating that when you take a pig from a breeder all you are doing is opening up a spot for another pig to be bread and then take its spot.

Drawing is a newbie to guinea pigs and I am quite sure that when I got started I would have taken the piggy as well if I seen it in those conditions and still be mad about him breeding but feeling that I still saved that piggy in a way.

I do understand and thing that drawing understands that she could and should have went to a rescue and adopt, however thats what her intentions originally were. She said she had a odd feeling and thats why her post said she took someone with her. And if the guy wouldnt have said he had sliders and snakes, and just brought out piggies, I can honestly think that anyone of us would have been like NO THANKS, Stupid Breeder in disguise.
But sometimes you see a pig like that and sometimes I must say that your inner GpCages.com knowledge doesnt come out because you have a heart and your human and you hate to see ANY animal whether it be a guinea pig or dog suffer like that with a case of mites and be in crammed quarters in a drawer.

I must also say that we are all sharing something on here. WE are all learning from each other in every way possibble, while trying to make NEW friends and contacts. I think that drawingwords was expecting a more of a response like " OKay let's help you get this looser shut down somehow or scare him out of business" or something like that. Because this is a pro=rescue site and you guys seem so helpful and want to do everything to stop breeders. So that's really after reading everything what I think that she was hoping for as a response. Then after reading how people responded, just figured she doesnt want to make people go to bananas and just to try not to get to back into the subject again. But maybe we should be saying, Hey did you try this to shut his butt down? Or maybe if a few of us call him, or send letters it might help? What can we do to help with getting this wierdo stopped? Thats all I have to say about that .

Now also in resonse to the whole : "you as a adult should control what your kids watch on the internet or what ever people are posting"
Okay I have a son and a daughter. My son is to young to know what those images mean, However:
My daughter is old enough to know. No I never leave my child unmonitored on the internet alone, but we do enjoy to look at the piggy pictures on the forums and do a bit of research together on this site. This is the same little girl that read about how bad and dangerous it is for classroom pets, then came home and printed out a whole bunch of information and gave it to the assistant principle. Well this little girl has helped alot of animals in the future because there will never be a classroom pet at my kids school EVER.

Sorry I got off track...Now seeing as how we do go online together since we share a whole family joy with the guinea pigs meaning Our old man, me and daughter. Now let's say I stumble upon a video on here or a photo. I NEVER think twice about clicking and letting her see since she is on my lap half the time or next to me. Because this site is great at making sure it's all guinea pig related photos and videosl

However I must say when you view a lot of cute little clips and photos then you assume that they are all safe for kids. I know personally that if she was sitting on my lap when I watched the brightlion video she would have cried and worried for months and years. She is the type of kid that wants to save all her pennies and change she finds on the road and help one of the kids on those infomercials in Africa that are starving. So this would have messed with her on more than one level.

This video was a deffinate eye opener and made me see a whole different side to animals being put down. And to be honest that image of the dogs bodies stacked in those bins haunts me to this day. EWE , that should be illegal to house dead bodies like that.
But there honestly should be a thing that at least says, strong images of actual rescue cases and dogs being put down. Or something.

Now some kids might not be affected by that and it would be positive to show the side of what idiots do when they toss a animal, but its just a little worry some that one day while sitting here with her doing research, I could scar her.

Now of course as the movie progressed, I would have moved her to another room, but do you think that will stop her curiousity?
I think that makes it worse. I know personally if I tell her OH no you can't see this, and shoo her in another room. She wants to know why and what's in it that is so bad. But with everything this world is comming to being lawsuit happy that would worry me just a bit since we love this site so much.

And all it takes is one idiot to screw it up for everyone. Thats the case with all of life right.

I just really wish that we could just take the positives out of the posts and focus on how to educate drawing on how she can see thru information that we send her that, breeders will never stop until shut down, or show her information that will let her see in a unoffensive way that yes she shouldve went to a rescue, but for next time if there ever is a next time that she shouldnt stick around because she feels bad for a piggie. I think it's all a personal thing as to where you are at with your guinea pig life.

IF you are just starting out and new to it and havent seen alot of crap that the breeders do, you may just very well think that you are still doing the right thing by saving ANY animal. But if you have been reasearching piggies and had them for a while, you know the dangers and you know that you taking that piggy in just killed one in a shelter. But we have to inform people in a nice way or they won't listen to our information right?

Some people on here that I am reffering to, I have seen them post many a many times, and I can honestly say that almost most of their posts seem to be in a arrogant tone, or in a rude sick of all the questions sort of way.
I think we should try to be as nice as we can because you get more flies with honey than vinegar.
Group Hug Everyone

[Susan9608]

Some people on here that I am reffering to, I have seen them post many a many times, and I can honestly say that almost most of their posts seem to be in a arrogant tone, or in a rude sick of all the questions sort of way.

You know, quite a few people make this claim ... that some members are rude or mean ... so I would like to challenge you to provide me some concrete examples. Please private message me with quotes pulled from members who have posted in *this* thread, which are arrogant or rude.

Personally, I haven't found the replies rude, arrogant or offensive.

When you post on the internet, you're opening up your thoughts/remarks to a vast world of opinions from all different sorts of people. You simply cannot dictate the types of responses you want or how the discussion will go; you can't demand that everyone be "nice." If you want everyone to pat you on the back and agree with you (and I thought that there were an abundance of those types of posts in this thread - many more than I'd like to see, honestly), then you'd better be damn sure of your audience before you post.

But the original poster, DrawingWords, *knew* before posting that this audience wasn't likely to respond favorably to her post and her actions. I know this because she stated in numerous places things like, "I probably shouldn't have done this," and "everyone is going to jump on me," and "maybe that makes me a bad person, but I don't care." By posting what she did, but then adding in those types of statements, she's giving herself permission to be the victim when everyone then responds exactly as she knows they will ... which is why her post was emotionally manipulative.

Perhaps the best thing everyone could have done would have been to totally ignore her post and not have allowed themselves to be emotionally manipulated, rather than being drawn up into her drama ... drama all of her OWN creation. Because obviously she doesn't care that she has simply added to the problem. She knew what she was doing before she did it.

It's all well and good to claim you were thinking with your heart in any given situation, but where is your heart when you consider all the other animals that suffer because of that ONE action?

I just really wish that we could just take the positives out of the posts and focus on how to educate drawing on how she can see thru information that we send her that, breeders will never stop until shut down, or show her information that will let her see in a unoffensive way that yes she shouldve went to a rescue,

Here's the point you're not grasping - she was ALREADY educated before she went. But she chose to get her pig from a breeder anyways. And why? Because the pigs at the shelter were "mean," so she and her husband didn't want those pigs. And instead of turning around and leaving when they discovered this situation was a breeding situation and then waiting for a legitimate rescue, they chose to justify themselves by claiming it's a "rescue."

So whatever. How can you educate someone who's already been educated and CHOOSES to ignore the info?

I think we should try to be as nice as we can because you get more flies with honey than vinegar.

This is a serious forum with serious ideals and aims. CavySpirit sets the tone here. And given the fact that we are such an active forum, with so many members, I'd say our "vinegar" is attracting flies just fine.

[VoodooJoint]

Originally Posted by Drawingwords

How did you know I wasn't a 10 year-old girl. I think there should be a disclaimer on what you show because if I was sitting here with a child, I would have been livid watching that Brightlion video. There is no need to shove that in peoples faces.

It seems watching that video made you livid for all the wrong reasons. More rationalizing and misplacing of anger on your part. You needed to see it and anyone else stuck in your mindset also needs to see it. I even think children need to see it. It's all part of the attempt to get people to "Consider the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight". Don't be livid because I posted it. Be livid about the fact that a video like that had to be made because of man's greed, selfishness and inhumanity. http://www.brightlion.com/InHope/InHope_en.aspx

[PIGGYMAMMA495]

Originally Posted by Susan9608

You know, quite a few people make this claim ... that some members are rude or mean ... so I would like to challenge you to provide me some concrete examples. Please private message me with quotes pulled from members who have posted in *this* thread, which are arrogant or rude.
--------Reply--------------------------------------------------------
I think that everyone is human, I hope. And that sometimes when people type they do mean well and are typing in a happy tone. However everyone is different and reads and understands things differently. So just because someone types something does not mean that someone will not be offended by it or take it the wrong way. However this area that it is posted in is the Kitchen and it clearly states, if you cant take the heat get out the kitchen. So I think that it's good to have healthy debates. Its a good thing and you can learn alot at the same time.

Quote-If you want everyone to pat you on the back and agree with you (and I thought that there were an abundance of those types of posts in this thread - many more than I'd like to see, honestly), then you'd better be damn sure of your audience before you post.
-----------REPLY-------------------------------------------------
Are we allowed to use the D word in our posts? Im not being a smart pants but I just wondered. Because I said the A word in a post and got warned? I just wasnt sure what are the words we can use and cant?

Quote-But the original poster, DrawingWords, *knew* before posting that this audience wasn't likely to respond favorably to her post and her actions. I know this because she stated in numerous places things like, "I probably shouldn't have done this," and "everyone is going to jump on me," and "maybe that makes me a bad person, but I don't care." By posting what she did, but then adding in those types of statements, she's giving herself permission to be the victim when everyone then responds exactly as she knows they will ... which is why her post was emotionally manipulative.
-----------------------Reply------------------------------------------
-Thank you for pointing that out. Some of us obviously did not look at it like that and thank you for typing that.

QUOTE-Here's the point you're not grasping - she was ALREADY educated before she went. But she chose to get her pig from a breeder anyways. And why? Because the pigs at the shelter were "mean," so she and her husband didn't want those pigs. And instead of turning around and leaving when they discovered this situation was a breeding situation and then waiting for a legitimate rescue, they chose to justify themselves by claiming it's a "rescue."
-------------REPLY----------------------------------
- I didn't see or maybe I missed if she said the shelter pigs were "mean". That is something just rude to say about a shelter piggy who is in need. And usually they are mean due to the horrible life they were living in the home that surrendered them. Can you please post where it says that becuase I missed it and would love to read that. Thanks.

QUOTE-So whatever. How can you educate someone who's already been educated and CHOOSES to ignore the info?
---------------------REPLY----------------------
-All you can really do with anyone is continue to offer the information and hopefully someone realizes what they did wrong and accepts the information. I don't think that we should just stop educating someone becuase of it, sometimes it just takes a while to get it in their heads. Everyone is different. But as I said before, I've read quite a few posts of people taking piggies fom where ever because they couldnt stand the conditions they were in. And hopefully after more education they realize that yes they did just do the wrong thing, and thru education on the site and by posts and members they can learn more to not ever do it again. Just because someone ignores the info, that makes me even more determined to try to get them to see the point at hand. Just because a child ignores the teacher doesnt mean that she should give up on them, right? I just think sometimes you have to drill it into some people until the lightbulb does go off. And if it gets annoying to continually help someone with the same issues, Im sure there will be someone out there who wont mind helping.

QUOTE-his is a serious forum with serious ideals and aims. CavySpirit sets the tone here. And given the fact that we are such an active forum, with so many members, I'd say our "vinegar" is attracting flies just fine.

--------------------------REPLY---------------------
-I never said that your VINEGAR isn't working, and actually I didnt say that this forum is compared to Vinegar. I just said you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar. I personally like this forum for its up front kind of attitude and how everyone tells it like it is. But there are some times where we can try to be nicer.

Yes, I know CavySpirit sets the tone here as it is her that created the site. And while on the subject I must say that she has done one heck of a job with this and it's a very big asset to me and other people with piggies. Yes there are a ton of members and its a very active forum, I just think we need to remember sometimes that those are actual humans behind the keyboard with feelings. Im not saying that all posts are mean or everyone is mean, but a few instances on a post or two could be worded differently. But as I stated above, this was posted in the KITCHEN and there is a clear message, that the debates will get heated in here so be prepared. I think it's interesting to learn different things thru debates and to also learn someones personality. SO I enjoy a good debate however I think I was a little mis understood a bit.

And maybe as you stated above its easier to just avoid or not respond to certain posts because its just drawing more attention to a negative subject. So I think from now on if we spot something that is questionable we should just not feed the trolls at all.

[Metroid & Boo]

Are people really moaning about that video? So what if children watch it? Why can't they know about animal cruelty? It's real, it happens every single day. Maybe if they do watch the video, it will stop them from being tomorrow's breeders or change their minds about not wanting their pets anymore. Especially when the reason is simply because they are BORED of them.