Is Oxbow really that great? - Page 3

**RainKindle** · #41 08-29-08, 07:50 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabbitsncavyluv

The admins don't have any control over what ads pop up.

Oh, I know they don't. It is a google based thing. I think they see the most common words we type and such and put the most likely to be clicked on advertisement there. It's the same in my google based email.
I just love that we are reduced purchasers of petco supplies, but their advertisement is stuck here as we say how bad they are. I'm just noting the humor in it.

**Cagney** · #42 08-29-08, 07:58 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabbitsncavyluv

The admins don't have any control over what ads pop up.

I agree. Any pet forum gets the adds for whoever has the most money. But it is rather ironic that petstore adds are the ones to appear. And this site probably wouldn't be able to operate in the great way it can without that PETCO add and others like it running at the bottom.

**salana** · #43 08-29-08, 08:11 pm

Teresa gets money for the site from the Google AdWords. Advertisers pay to have their stuff advertised--but they have no idea if the readers are going to click, and even if they count click-thrus they can't make us buy from them.

So feel free to click on the Petco and Petsmart ads. They pay for you to click on them. Take their money (or funnel it to this site, actually)--it's a drop in the bucket compared to the problem they create by selling small animals.

Oh, and Cagney? Animals are loss leaders. Petco and Petsmart already don't make money off of them. They're there to bring in the people and get them to buy overpriced crap. That's where they make up the profit, the loss they took by selling the pig. If you go to the store, and you buy Carefresh or pellets or hay, you are giving them more profit than if you bought Carefresh or pellets or hay and a pig. That is why we recommend not shopping at pet stores at all.

**Karsluma** · #44 08-29-08, 08:52 pm

Well, I was faced with this dilemma just TODAY. I'm about out of cavy cuisine - I buy it from a vet about 12 miles from where I live. I drove out there and they were OUT of cavy cuisine - I had less than 2 days left, and they weren't even going to place the order until Tuesday......

So I went to Petsmart to buy some other brand to hold me over until I could get more Oxbow from that vet....... well, they had Cavy Cuisine AND the timothey hay, orchard grass, and alfalfa hay. Instead of buying some other crap brand to hold me over, I was able to get the good stuff at a store 3 miles away. What to do?

Oh, and all of the small animal cages were empty..... no guineas, hamsters, rats, mice, gerbils...... I'm sure there were more on the way, but at least no one was being lured into buying tonight.

**Susan9608** · #45 08-29-08, 09:24 pm

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I have seen more abuse and neglect than many of you can imagine or tolerate to any extent.

I imagine all of our rescuers have seen their fair share of abuse and neglect as well. We also have many vet techs and kennel assistants on our forum, so you're not in a unique position to tell anyone about the horrors done to non human animals.

**Cagney** · #46 08-29-08, 09:27 pm

Yes I've admitted I do see the point you are trying to make. What I'd like to get across is if concentration is focused more on not buying the live animals at all at these stores. And I mean zero sales. That they would be more receptive to allowing smaller animal rescues to showcase (for lack of other words) their adoptable pets in their stores.

For petsmart it would be a win type of situation. They already do it for the cats, and the dogs are there at certain periods of time during the weekends. So if small animal rescues properly presented to petsmart, that like the cat rescues. Petsmart and PETCO has already taken a stand on not selling puppies and kittens, and only allow local rescues to operate in their stores. If presented properly I would think they would be quite willing to forego the cost of caring for these money loosing small animals. Explain to them the the rescues would...........

Provide proper housing, as long as petsmart could accomdate the cages and help ensure the safety of the animals housed in them.

Clean and properly care for those animals in those cages.

Rotate the adoptable rescues often enough so that the public would then be "lured" in to see which pets were being featured that week.

Even if they had guinea pigs one month, rabbits the next, reptiles, then birds,,etc... and so forth. The public would be enticed by the variety of pets to be seen. They would free up store space and reduce care costs on these so called loss leaders. The mills that produce their current stock would take a huge hit and have to go back to outhouses and trailers and figure out another way to make a living.

Now the benefits the rescues would receive from this I would think would be enormous.

They would be better known and able to be "seen" by more of the general public.

The general public would see proper housing and proper feeding and care.

Impluse buys would be all but stopped. Since they would have to fill out an application and wait for the response. Thus allowing them time to research the pet and it's needs. Find out if it is in deed something they wish to commit to for the next several years.

This to me is the best possible scenario. And it is more likely to happen in my opinion than stopping the general public from shopping there. That's not going to happen. So if you really want to make a difference and educate the general public you have to go where they go, to the petstores. You'd be surprised at just how ill informed they are, and also with a bit of patience and kindness how willing many are to be informed.

**RainKindle** · #47 08-29-08, 09:55 pm

Cagney, the petcos in my area feature the adoptable rabbits.
MCRS made a deal with a handful of petcos to showcase adoptable rabbits replacing the selling of rabbits. The MCRS screens applicants, provides the oxbow timothy hay, and provides volunteers for the daily socialization, cleaning, and exercise of the rabbits. MCRS volunteers transport and rotate the rabbits from store to store and has adoption events about every 3 weeks inside different petcos. I made a thread about this somewhere if you want to search it out, but it is not yet the perfect scenario. I just thought I would share in case you hadn't heard of this.

**salana** · #48 08-29-08, 10:50 pm

No, it wouldn't be a win for PetSmart. Let's say Cavy Spirit did adoptions out of a PetSmart.

Impulse buyer: I want that cute hamster!
Teresa: That's a guinea pig.
Impulse buyer: Whatever, I want it! I need a cage for it.
Teresa: Here's a handout on how to put together a cage.
Impulse buyer: ...okay, I just wanted to buy one...
Teresa: Would you like to fill out an adoption application? You'll hear back from us in 3 days or so.
Impulse buyer: But I wanted it today! *pouts*
Teresa: You can buy Carefresh and Oxbow hay and pellets here. Also a water bottle and hidey house.
Impulse buyer spends $60 at Petsmart, of which $15-20 is profit. Impulse buyer never returns because Teresa has gotten them to join GL and GPC and they now buy from PetFoodDirect and KM's Hayloft.

I think Petsmart likes the prevailing situation, as follows:
Impulse buyer: I want that cute hamster!
Semi-educated teenaged employee: That's a guinea pig.
Impulse buyer: Whatever, I want it.
Semi-educated teenaged employee: Okay. You need to buy it our $100 cage.
Impulse buyer: Do I have to? Won't this $40 cage be good enough?
Semi-educated teenaged employee: Uh...well, you can put it in this $75 cage.
Impulse buyer: Okay!
Semi-educated teenaged employee: You also need Carefresh, Nutriphase pellets, salt wheels, a giant roll-around ball, a hayrack, a dangly thing with a bell, wood chew sticks, wood chew sticks of a different shape and color, a Snak Shak, a fancy bowl, a water bottle, a leash and harness, treat sticks, and brightly colored puffy treats.
Impulse buyer: Okay!
Impulse buyer spends $30 on a guinea pig, for a profit of $-15, and $150 on supplies, for a profit of $50. Two weeks later, impulse buyer comes in and buys another $40 of supplies, for a profit of $12. And then two weeks after that, impulse buyer comes in and buys another $40 of supplies...

Petsmart's running a business. Their business is bringing people in with small animals, and getting money by attaching all kinds of crap people don't need to the sale. I work for a company that makes money by persuading people to buy all kinds of overpriced accessories to go with their electronics. The difference is that animals don't suffer when we order another TV to replace the one we just sold.

Let's not forget the other exchange that takes place in Petsmart:
Semi-educated teenaged employee: Hi, can I help you?
Cagney: I'm here to buy Carefresh, pellets, and hay. I don't support your selling of small animals!
Semi-educated teenaged employee: Uh, okay.
Cagney: And I'm going to tell everyone not to buy animals from you, only supplies!
Semi-educated teenaged employee: Um, whatever.
Cagney buys $40 worth of supplies. Petsmart makes a profit of $12. Cagney returns in 2 weeks and buys $40 more of supplies.

Now you tell me, Cagney, to the store manager who looks at the P&L, how are you any different than the second impulse buyer? Because you didn't spend the initial outlay of $150?

**salana** · #49 08-29-08, 11:14 pm

Oh, and here's the scenario Petsmart REALLY doesn't want:

Impulse buyer: I want that cute hamster!
Teresa: That's a guinea pig.
Impulse buyer: Whatever, I want it! I need a cage for it.
Teresa: Here's a handout on how to put together a cage.
Impulse buyer: ...okay, I just wanted to buy one...
Teresa: Would you like to fill out an adoption application? You'll hear back from us in 3 days or so.
Impulse buyer: But I wanted it today! *pouts* Forget this, I'm going to go buy a video game.
Impulse buyer spends $60 on a video game at Best Buy. Best Buy gets $10 profit. Impulse buyer then decides to spend $800 on a better flat screen TV ($30 profit, it was on sale), $100 on installation ($50 profit), and $200 on accessories ($80 profit).

**Cagney** · #50 08-30-08, 12:12 am

Wow. Ok so how's that going to be any different than the dog and cat rescues they adopt out? And they still do it. They profit from the ongoing care that pet needs.

person sees the cat in the cat viewing area. they want that cat, and that cat only. they fill out the application. they buy the supplies the person said they need to buy, and they later return to pick up that cat.

People will see a guinea pig. Fall in love and want that guinea pig only. They are not interchangeable. They are individuals much like the dogs and cats, that people are willing to prepare for and wait the 3 days to take home.

The petsmarts at least in my area do not sale rabbits and ferrets. They allow the rabbit and ferret rescues to hold adoption events. Why not take it another big step and include the birds, guinea pigs, hamsters, mice, rats, etc...?

Are you saying that cats and dogs are somehow on a different level than the guinea pigs? That over time people have been taught that taking home a dog or cat is something you need to prepare for, and that they can't be taught that with a guinea pig?

Sure at first it would be frustrating. Sure you would have that scenario. But overtime now petsmart is now carring quality food and hays for these very same animals. So overtime why wouldn't they also offer appropriate housing? C&C cages can be pre made and available in store as well.

Is it not worth the effort for rescues to try and provide the same for the smaller animals as that provided through petsmart for dogs and cats at this time?

We've established that in general the general public will continue to shop at petsmart. That they will continue to purchase live pets as long as they are there. So why not take that opprotunity to try and make the difference. Why not take that opprotunity to try and educate as many guinea pig owners as you can.

Until PETCO and Petsmart hit the country you went to your local petsore. There you purchased a puppy or kitten. Then someone said no more. So now more people wait those 3 days. They are unknowledged. The rescues now have the opprotunity to edcuate. And Petsmart in return realized that the general public would keep returning to their store to keep that animal care current. They started to carry the higher end cat and dog supplies. Although I'd love for a good reason for the sale of strollers for a dog. But anyway, food wise they carry the higher end brands. And sell more of it.

If the petstores stopped selling the live mill animals and did all rescues. If they carried the higher end brands of the guinea pig food and the better hays and supplies that are actually needed. If all animal adoptions out of their stores were rescues and rescues only, what would be the problem? Since the general public will continue to shop there why not in turn make the effort as a rescue to do what you can where you can? Why wouldn't these little homeless cavies be worth that effort? It's worked for other animals, why not find a way to show petsmart how it can and will profit them. The basics are already in place. Why can't we try and figure out a way to finish the job?

Why take one possible scenario, make it into a negative one and then toss up your hands and say it won't happen. I think it's more likely to happen than getting everyone to cease petstore shopping. That I think won't ever happen for the general public.

Yes KM's hay looks great. I haven't personally tried it yet. We know Oxbow is a good product. We know petsmart is now going to carry it. Why not try and use that as motivation to get those live mill animals out of there? Why not try to make smaller type pet sales in petstores as much a thing of the past as the puppymill puppies? It took time, and it took enough pressure for someone to say enough and make it work.

As for petfood direct. I will never shop there. They carry products that are labeled for sale through a licensed veterinarian only. They are not a licensed veterinarian.

**Cagney** · #51 08-30-08, 12:22 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainKindle

Cagney, the petcos in my area feature the adoptable rabbits.
MCRS made a deal with a handful of petcos to showcase adoptable rabbits replacing the selling of rabbits. The MCRS screens applicants, provides the oxbow timothy hay, and provides volunteers for the daily socialization, cleaning, and exercise of the rabbits. MCRS volunteers transport and rotate the rabbits from store to store and has adoption events about every 3 weeks inside different petcos. I made a thread about this somewhere if you want to search it out, but it is not yet the perfect scenario. I just thought I would share in case you hadn't heard of this.

Yes thank you. I've read that thread. No it doesn't sound perfect, but it's a start. And at least it's an attempt. I would love to see some sort of report on how they are showing PETCO that they are profiting from it. That's how you're going to get other stores to follow in their footsteps and allow rescue and only rescue pet adoptions out of their stores. I see this as a someone is listening somewhere, and someone who can and is trying to do something about it.

**salana** · #52 08-30-08, 12:46 am

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