Is Oxbow really that great?

[RainKindle]

1. C&C cages: not allowed to set up or promote as they do not sell them so they are not making money from the sale of their glorified litterboxes they pass off as cages. ZERO money for petsmart

C&C cages are what we use for the rabbit adoption events. Petco likes this as they do not have to provide cages for the event.
Works out well. We get to advertise the C&C's and Petco is happy they don't have to provide anything.
Here is an excerpt from an email I got just today from the society I am a part of:
"MCRS partners with Petco to place adoptable rabbits in Petco stores. Thus, Petco houses adoptable rabbits instead of selling rabbits. It opens up spaces for adoptable rabbits and decreases the influx of new rabbits into the system that will eventually end up in shelters. Part of our agreement with Petco is that we will provide volunteers every day to exercise the rabbits for an hour a day, to make sure they have water and hay and to check them for obvious signs of health problems."
These are wonderful steps in the right direction.

[Henle15]

I wish our petcos would allow this! But they insist on continuing to sell the piggies instead. If the petco sold rabbits and still wanted to have adoptables in the stores, would they still be happy to place adoptable rabbits in the store? That is my point, but you are right it is a move in the right direction!

[RainKindle]

I wish our petcos would allow this!

You could contact MCRS and find out how they went about it.
I don't know who the head of MCRS is but if you search "MCRS rabbit" in google, the site comes up right away.
If you find out the steps they took to do it, let me know.
MCRS was established for a while as a society/rescue before they worked the deal out with petco.

[Cagney]

Petsmart makes a profit off of you as long as you buy supplies there. Therefore you are telling them, with your dollar, that you're okay with the way they run things.

How if I do not shop there? If I order online does my dollar go to petsmart? As so many have said they can't see how ordering from a company that sells their product to petsmart, that they are supporting petsmart. So if I go by that and I do not, as I have said, shop at petsmart, does my dollar tell them anything?

But if I were to figure out some way to have them stop selling the smaller animals that come from mills and support all rescues instead, what would then be the reasoning behind not shopping at petsmart?

The scenarios were being taken hypothetically as if petsmart no longer sold these mill animals and there were rescue animals in there instead.

[rabbitsncavyluv]

Do you have photos?

[salana]

Hey, if you stop shopping at Petsmart and Petco, great. But I am of the same mind as Henle--Petsmart is never going to accomodate a rescue on the rescue's terms, because it wouldn't be profitable for them.

Oxbow is not the most profitable item at Petsmart. I can tell you that right now. You may be a vet tech, but you know nothing about retail.

[Cagney]

Do you have photos?

I'm sorry of what?

[Cagney]

Hey, if you stop shopping at Petsmart and Petco, great. But I am of the same mind as Henle--Petsmart is never going to accomodate a rescue on the rescue's terms, because it wouldn't be profitable for them.

Oxbow is not the most profitable item at Petsmart. I can tell you that right now. You may be a vet tech, but you know nothing about retail.

No I'm not a retail wizard. Ok so if I don't shop at petsmart, which I'm giving it my best shot not to, then what? How are you going to stop sales of the live mill animals from petsmart and other types of stores like them? If as you say it Oxbow isn't the most profitable item? Why do they care if no one buys it there, then?

It's been said that the small animal sales do not profit either. That they are one of the biggest money loosers for the company. Then you say that the product isn't profitable as well. Then why not try to come to an agreement with them? If you're wanting to help remove non profitable items and animals that loose them money, why wouldn't they try and work something out? Where is the profit coming from?

What is wrong with a compromise that won't harm the animals in the rescue in any way? Why can that not be acheived? Stores are different in different areas. But if enough stores such as the ones that are allowing rabbit rescue to adopt out are showing it's working won't the other ones be more inclined to follow? Since they are no longer loosing money on the pets, and only made a small profit off of the supplies.

Because someone might still buy other pet products for other types of animals while they are in there looking at the rescues would be my assumption. Someone pointed out the only reason they sale the smaller pets is for the lure to get people in. Can't this still be acheived by luring people in to see the rescued smaller pets?

[Henle15]

Cagney you have a great point about getting rescues in the stores...but its the stores that aren't allowing us to do it. You are 100% right in that we want to get our animals in there, but not when they still sell the same animals that we are saving because of their impulse buying mind.

I think most people would not have a problem shopping at petsmart if they didn't sell small animals. I think that is the whole point of many that boycott the stores. The problem is that the stores would want to control what we as a rescue promoted and I have a huge problem with that if it compromises my rescue standards and mission.

Like I said...if those same stores sold dogs/cats, there wouldn't be rescues of those kind in those stores. We as guinea pig rescues just aren't respected as much yet and that is what we are trying to acheive. Boycotting those stores worked for the dog/cat people, so why can't it work for us!

Those stores used to sell dogs/cats, but then people stopped shopping there and guess what happens...they stop selling them!

That is what we are trying to achieve and the stores do not want that because they will not make a profit by selling their crappy stuff that they say is fine, when the rescues are saying the opposite and most people will beleive us as we make nothing and are an all volunteer rescue, not a coroporation that is trying to line the pockets of the CEO's.

Not only are their food and cages bad...what about the "treats" they say are healthy and fine. That is another part that I have a problem with. They try to pass off things as fine for small animals and make money...I have a huge problem with that because to me that is unethical and wrong. Making money at the expense of an animal is plain wrong and that is what they are doing by selling crappy food, small cages, treat sticks, water additives, and housing and taking care of them the way they do.

The worst part about it is...most of the employees have no idea what small animals need because they don't properly take care of them either at home because they go off what is taught to them in their "training" at the petstore.

I used to think there was no big deal about the care and the things petstores sold. That was until I worked at one and dealt with it. I know what goes on and what types of people work at those stores and run those stores. I could write a whole topic on that and the "qualifications" it takes to be a manager at those stores or even a higher up. You only have to know retail and be able to run a retail store. Just ask the store here in Tamarac when they had a manager that ran the store into the ground because he had no idea what was going on. Ask the District Manager of the Florida stores what his background in animals is....none "I own a dog"...that is it!! Those are the types of people that run petstores! No research, no continuing education, no expereince with animals they sell. Ok I really need to stop or this post will be 5-6 pages long...

[Cagney]

Henele15 . i fully agree with you on everything. You have not once contradicted yourself. And the points you make are educational and stated in a way that they can be learned from. I think you and your rescue will go a long way! Since I am stuck in the middle of nowhere pretty much, but yet it's a large city. No nearby rescues, nothing. The petstores are doing great here. It's very sad.

And yes I understand what you're saying about not doing an adoption event in the middle of a store that sells exactly what you'll be rescuing in a few months. I never meant for you to think I would want that. But I have helped with many of the dog rescues that do adoption events out of petsmart in previous years. Once they look though the application and think the applicant will be approved they take the new owner on a tour. They show them how to read the labels of the dog foods, they show them what's wrong with the lower end brands. They explain why spending a few more dollars is worth it for the pet's health. They go over basics for the first few months, and offer training advice. My only issue with what was going on was the promotion of petsmart training classes. And no, not that I was ever aware of did they have to reccomend petsmart training. They thought it to be an easy way for the potential adopter to at least do some basic training. I personally find them to be a huge waste of time and money and often the pet behaves worse than it would have after the class, than it would have without the class. I simply skipped that part of the tour. Then the rescue volunteer would check off a checklist of how receptive the person was. Wether or not they seemed to understand pet care and how to properly provide for it. And then they were approved or denied with some of that information playing an important role in the decision.

My question would be. If the petstore doesn't make that much of a profit off of the small animal supplies, and loses money on the mass produced small animal sales, what is the best course of action to take to show them that allowing a rescue to promote proper smaller pet care and how they can offer those products that are needed? And how they can make a profit from it, and not take a loss? And also for that rescue to not compromise beliefs that they stand strongly on? There must be a middle ground somewhere?

I often take my child and my dog to petsmart. We don't buy anything. But we walk the aisles and because the dog and child both interact with one another and behave so well, we are asked where we got the dog. How we trained her, what she's fed, and we are more than happy to share. It all starts by word of mouth, and if we have a free afternoon that's what we do. We hit different petstores each week and just aisle browse for uninformed new pet owners and help them see the proper way to take care of their pets. And sometimes I'd like to think that those 15 mins might make the difference of wether or not that pet will remain with that family receiving proper care for it's entire life.

[salana]

Henle, I would be interested in hearing what it's like inside a petstore. Shoot me a PM and spill!

[Henle15]

I don't know the answer to that question cagney...that is one I have been thinking about for awhile now and can't seem to come up with anything good yet. The problem is many of the managers are not receptive to hear anything and just refer to the upper management. Some of the managers want to help but many of the times their hands are tied and I understand where they are coming from so they aren't the only ones to blame. Most of those managers that want to help don't last long and move on to a different job because they realize that they cannot help with the proper care of animals so they stop trying and get frustrated and quit...or if they push the topic too much..they are fired or asked to leave. Happened to my store a couple of times.

I will have to get back to you on the petstore topic salana when I have a little time to really gather everything and put it in writing. I have so many stories that I seriously could write a book and sell it...but I choose not too because that would take away my time from running my rescue and that is what my life revolves around right now. We are in the process of filing 501(c)3 and finding place to rent for a physical shelter. Everythng takes so much time and lots of learning on the go at the same time so its fun and I love it. I want to help move people towards the open minded and better care for guinea pigs and help revolutionize the whole pet care industry. I think Teresa does so much with everything she does and I want to try to do what she does and one by one we can gain more respect for caring properly for guinea pigs.

The book idea is a good idea though...to raise money for my rescue and help others too of course!

[yo FOO xD]

I get my Oxbow from Drs. Foster and Smith. Anyone can easily buy it there, rather than shopping at pet stores. There's never an excuse to enter a pet store.

[TwilightStar]

What if people only bought food from petstores, but stopped buying animals. Then the petstores realized that the food was making them a profit and that the pets were making them lose profits, so that they stopped selling animals all together and focused on selling high quality food. Then the general public would be buying the higher quality food because it was more avaliable, making the prices go down and making other animal food makers make their food better quality too?

Lol Wall of text, not supporting petstores, just thinking that if this was possible, wouldn't it be really cool? Of course it would mean that all people would have to change their ways and only adopt their pets. But if this happened, people would not go the cheap route anymore, and buy their pets better food too.

[Kipsie]

Everyone keeps talking about this "KM". Does she have a website?

[rabbitsncavyluv]

They money is still going to the same place when you just buy feed and toys there. They don't differentiate where the profits come from or if you have bought your pets there or adopted.

Kleenmama's website for kipsie Kleenmama's Hayloft :: Home

[MandyPandy]

I love Oxbow and so do my piggies. So, if some of you still want to buy Oxbow, go to this website: Chinchillas.com E-store - Chinchilla Feed Cages Wheels Toys and Accessories

I order my hay and the Cavy Cuisine from this site and they are MUCH cheaper here than at Petsmart. For instance, a 10 lb bag of Cavy Cuisine for $10.50 while at Petsmart, they sell their 5lb bags for like $14!

Hope that helps someone

[crazywiggy]

What if people only bought food from petstores, but stopped buying animals.

This is great in theory, but I don't think it would actually work....

The problem is people love looking at animals - children especially. Certainly when I was a child I dragged my parents into every pet store we passed, and most of the kids I know now do exactly the same. I even know a number of rational adults who always go in just to look at the cute baby animals.
Of course, many people don't actually buy the animals they see in the store (except the impulse buyers obviously) but many do spend money there. People go in purely to look at the animals, with no intention of buying anything at all - but they still come out with a new toy or treats for their existing pets, or food for garden birds, or a calender or magazine....

The people running the storse are wel aware of this phenomenom... even if they lose a bit of money on the animals themselves, they know they more than make up for it from all the stuff purchased by the people the animals bring into the store.

The only way I can see to overcome this problem is to reverse the wholse situation - make it so that selling animals keeps peolpe out of the stoer rather than bringing them in.

Which letter do you think would have the most impact?

a) "I am against selling live animals in pet stores, so I am never going to buy a pet from you".
(Store loses the cost of an animal)

b) "I am against selling animals in pet stores, so I will not even enter your store until you cease doing so. I already own 3 dogs, 4 guinea pigs, 2 rabbits and a hamster - but I will take my considerable business elsewhere to a company that do not profit from selling live animals."
(Store loses a potentially huge amount of repeated custom)

[sophistacavy]

Why was this thread bumped up again? It's a little bit aggravating when this happens, and recently, it has happened more often than I have ever seen it happen before on here. I get emails of new posts, and I think it's a pretty recent thread, which they usually are. Then, I come on, look at the date, and it was from last summer. I don't know how to get these emails into a sepearte folder either, so they end up coming in with everything else.

[rabbitsncavyluv]

Someone else dug it up. You can sign up not to get emailed the notices.