Is Oxbow really that great?

[RainKindle]

Originally Posted by rabbitsncavyluv

The admins don't have any control over what ads pop up.

Oh, I know they don't. It is a google based thing. I think they see the most common words we type and such and put the most likely to be clicked on advertisement there. It's the same in my google based email.
I just love that we are reduced purchasers of petco supplies, but their advertisement is stuck here as we say how bad they are. I'm just noting the humor in it.

[Cagney]

Originally Posted by rabbitsncavyluv

The admins don't have any control over what ads pop up.

I agree. Any pet forum gets the adds for whoever has the most money. But it is rather ironic that petstore adds are the ones to appear. And this site probably wouldn't be able to operate in the great way it can without that PETCO add and others like it running at the bottom.

[salana]

Teresa gets money for the site from the Google AdWords. Advertisers pay to have their stuff advertised--but they have no idea if the readers are going to click, and even if they count click-thrus they can't make us buy from them.

So feel free to click on the Petco and Petsmart ads. They pay for you to click on them. Take their money (or funnel it to this site, actually)--it's a drop in the bucket compared to the problem they create by selling small animals.

Oh, and Cagney? Animals are loss leaders. Petco and Petsmart already don't make money off of them. They're there to bring in the people and get them to buy overpriced crap. That's where they make up the profit, the loss they took by selling the pig. If you go to the store, and you buy Carefresh or pellets or hay, you are giving them more profit than if you bought Carefresh or pellets or hay and a pig. That is why we recommend not shopping at pet stores at all.

[Karsluma]

Well, I was faced with this dilemma just TODAY. I'm about out of cavy cuisine - I buy it from a vet about 12 miles from where I live. I drove out there and they were OUT of cavy cuisine - I had less than 2 days left, and they weren't even going to place the order until Tuesday......

So I went to Petsmart to buy some other brand to hold me over until I could get more Oxbow from that vet....... well, they had Cavy Cuisine AND the timothey hay, orchard grass, and alfalfa hay. Instead of buying some other crap brand to hold me over, I was able to get the good stuff at a store 3 miles away. What to do?

Oh, and all of the small animal cages were empty..... no guineas, hamsters, rats, mice, gerbils...... I'm sure there were more on the way, but at least no one was being lured into buying tonight.

[Susan9608]

I have seen more abuse and neglect than many of you can imagine or tolerate to any extent.

I imagine all of our rescuers have seen their fair share of abuse and neglect as well. We also have many vet techs and kennel assistants on our forum, so you're not in a unique position to tell anyone about the horrors done to non human animals.

[Cagney]

Yes I've admitted I do see the point you are trying to make. What I'd like to get across is if concentration is focused more on not buying the live animals at all at these stores. And I mean zero sales. That they would be more receptive to allowing smaller animal rescues to showcase (for lack of other words) their adoptable pets in their stores.

For petsmart it would be a win type of situation. They already do it for the cats, and the dogs are there at certain periods of time during the weekends. So if small animal rescues properly presented to petsmart, that like the cat rescues. Petsmart and PETCO has already taken a stand on not selling puppies and kittens, and only allow local rescues to operate in their stores. If presented properly I would think they would be quite willing to forego the cost of caring for these money loosing small animals. Explain to them the the rescues would...........


Provide proper housing, as long as petsmart could accomdate the cages and help ensure the safety of the animals housed in them.

Clean and properly care for those animals in those cages.

Rotate the adoptable rescues often enough so that the public would then be "lured" in to see which pets were being featured that week.

Even if they had guinea pigs one month, rabbits the next, reptiles, then birds,,etc... and so forth. The public would be enticed by the variety of pets to be seen. They would free up store space and reduce care costs on these so called loss leaders. The mills that produce their current stock would take a huge hit and have to go back to outhouses and trailers and figure out another way to make a living.

Now the benefits the rescues would receive from this I would think would be enormous.

They would be better known and able to be "seen" by more of the general public.

The general public would see proper housing and proper feeding and care.

Impluse buys would be all but stopped. Since they would have to fill out an application and wait for the response. Thus allowing them time to research the pet and it's needs. Find out if it is in deed something they wish to commit to for the next several years.

This to me is the best possible scenario. And it is more likely to happen in my opinion than stopping the general public from shopping there. That's not going to happen. So if you really want to make a difference and educate the general public you have to go where they go, to the petstores. You'd be surprised at just how ill informed they are, and also with a bit of patience and kindness how willing many are to be informed.

[RainKindle]

Cagney, the petcos in my area feature the adoptable rabbits.
MCRS made a deal with a handful of petcos to showcase adoptable rabbits replacing the selling of rabbits. The MCRS screens applicants, provides the oxbow timothy hay, and provides volunteers for the daily socialization, cleaning, and exercise of the rabbits. MCRS volunteers transport and rotate the rabbits from store to store and has adoption events about every 3 weeks inside different petcos. I made a thread about this somewhere if you want to search it out, but it is not yet the perfect scenario. I just thought I would share in case you hadn't heard of this.

[salana]

No, it wouldn't be a win for PetSmart. Let's say Cavy Spirit did adoptions out of a PetSmart.

Impulse buyer: I want that cute hamster!
Teresa: That's a guinea pig.
Impulse buyer: Whatever, I want it! I need a cage for it.
Teresa: Here's a handout on how to put together a cage.
Impulse buyer: ...okay, I just wanted to buy one...
Teresa: Would you like to fill out an adoption application? You'll hear back from us in 3 days or so.
Impulse buyer: But I wanted it today! *pouts*
Teresa: You can buy Carefresh and Oxbow hay and pellets here. Also a water bottle and hidey house.
Impulse buyer spends $60 at Petsmart, of which $15-20 is profit. Impulse buyer never returns because Teresa has gotten them to join GL and GPC and they now buy from PetFoodDirect and KM's Hayloft.

I think Petsmart likes the prevailing situation, as follows:
Impulse buyer: I want that cute hamster!
Semi-educated teenaged employee: That's a guinea pig.
Impulse buyer: Whatever, I want it.
Semi-educated teenaged employee: Okay. You need to buy it our $100 cage.
Impulse buyer: Do I have to? Won't this $40 cage be good enough?
Semi-educated teenaged employee: Uh...well, you can put it in this $75 cage.
Impulse buyer: Okay!
Semi-educated teenaged employee: You also need Carefresh, Nutriphase pellets, salt wheels, a giant roll-around ball, a hayrack, a dangly thing with a bell, wood chew sticks, wood chew sticks of a different shape and color, a Snak Shak, a fancy bowl, a water bottle, a leash and harness, treat sticks, and brightly colored puffy treats.
Impulse buyer: Okay!
Impulse buyer spends $30 on a guinea pig, for a profit of $-15, and $150 on supplies, for a profit of $50. Two weeks later, impulse buyer comes in and buys another $40 of supplies, for a profit of $12. And then two weeks after that, impulse buyer comes in and buys another $40 of supplies...

Petsmart's running a business. Their business is bringing people in with small animals, and getting money by attaching all kinds of crap people don't need to the sale. I work for a company that makes money by persuading people to buy all kinds of overpriced accessories to go with their electronics. The difference is that animals don't suffer when we order another TV to replace the one we just sold.

Let's not forget the other exchange that takes place in Petsmart:
Semi-educated teenaged employee: Hi, can I help you?
Cagney: I'm here to buy Carefresh, pellets, and hay. I don't support your selling of small animals!
Semi-educated teenaged employee: Uh, okay.
Cagney: And I'm going to tell everyone not to buy animals from you, only supplies!
Semi-educated teenaged employee: Um, whatever.
Cagney buys $40 worth of supplies. Petsmart makes a profit of $12. Cagney returns in 2 weeks and buys $40 more of supplies.

Now you tell me, Cagney, to the store manager who looks at the P&L, how are you any different than the second impulse buyer? Because you didn't spend the initial outlay of $150?

[salana]

Oh, and here's the scenario Petsmart REALLY doesn't want:

Impulse buyer: I want that cute hamster!
Teresa: That's a guinea pig.
Impulse buyer: Whatever, I want it! I need a cage for it.
Teresa: Here's a handout on how to put together a cage.
Impulse buyer: ...okay, I just wanted to buy one...
Teresa: Would you like to fill out an adoption application? You'll hear back from us in 3 days or so.
Impulse buyer: But I wanted it today! *pouts* Forget this, I'm going to go buy a video game.
Impulse buyer spends $60 on a video game at Best Buy. Best Buy gets $10 profit. Impulse buyer then decides to spend $800 on a better flat screen TV ($30 profit, it was on sale), $100 on installation ($50 profit), and $200 on accessories ($80 profit).

[Cagney]

Wow. Ok so how's that going to be any different than the dog and cat rescues they adopt out? And they still do it. They profit from the ongoing care that pet needs.

person sees the cat in the cat viewing area. they want that cat, and that cat only. they fill out the application. they buy the supplies the person said they need to buy, and they later return to pick up that cat.

People will see a guinea pig. Fall in love and want that guinea pig only. They are not interchangeable. They are individuals much like the dogs and cats, that people are willing to prepare for and wait the 3 days to take home.

The petsmarts at least in my area do not sale rabbits and ferrets. They allow the rabbit and ferret rescues to hold adoption events. Why not take it another big step and include the birds, guinea pigs, hamsters, mice, rats, etc...?

Are you saying that cats and dogs are somehow on a different level than the guinea pigs? That over time people have been taught that taking home a dog or cat is something you need to prepare for, and that they can't be taught that with a guinea pig?

Sure at first it would be frustrating. Sure you would have that scenario. But overtime now petsmart is now carring quality food and hays for these very same animals. So overtime why wouldn't they also offer appropriate housing? C&C cages can be pre made and available in store as well.

Is it not worth the effort for rescues to try and provide the same for the smaller animals as that provided through petsmart for dogs and cats at this time?

We've established that in general the general public will continue to shop at petsmart. That they will continue to purchase live pets as long as they are there. So why not take that opprotunity to try and make the difference. Why not take that opprotunity to try and educate as many guinea pig owners as you can.

Until PETCO and Petsmart hit the country you went to your local petsore. There you purchased a puppy or kitten. Then someone said no more. So now more people wait those 3 days. They are unknowledged. The rescues now have the opprotunity to edcuate. And Petsmart in return realized that the general public would keep returning to their store to keep that animal care current. They started to carry the higher end cat and dog supplies. Although I'd love for a good reason for the sale of strollers for a dog. But anyway, food wise they carry the higher end brands. And sell more of it.

If the petstores stopped selling the live mill animals and did all rescues. If they carried the higher end brands of the guinea pig food and the better hays and supplies that are actually needed. If all animal adoptions out of their stores were rescues and rescues only, what would be the problem? Since the general public will continue to shop there why not in turn make the effort as a rescue to do what you can where you can? Why wouldn't these little homeless cavies be worth that effort? It's worked for other animals, why not find a way to show petsmart how it can and will profit them. The basics are already in place. Why can't we try and figure out a way to finish the job?

Why take one possible scenario, make it into a negative one and then toss up your hands and say it won't happen. I think it's more likely to happen than getting everyone to cease petstore shopping. That I think won't ever happen for the general public.

Yes KM's hay looks great. I haven't personally tried it yet. We know Oxbow is a good product. We know petsmart is now going to carry it. Why not try and use that as motivation to get those live mill animals out of there? Why not try to make smaller type pet sales in petstores as much a thing of the past as the puppymill puppies? It took time, and it took enough pressure for someone to say enough and make it work.

As for petfood direct. I will never shop there. They carry products that are labeled for sale through a licensed veterinarian only. They are not a licensed veterinarian.

[Cagney]

Originally Posted by RainKindle

Cagney, the petcos in my area feature the adoptable rabbits.
MCRS made a deal with a handful of petcos to showcase adoptable rabbits replacing the selling of rabbits. The MCRS screens applicants, provides the oxbow timothy hay, and provides volunteers for the daily socialization, cleaning, and exercise of the rabbits. MCRS volunteers transport and rotate the rabbits from store to store and has adoption events about every 3 weeks inside different petcos. I made a thread about this somewhere if you want to search it out, but it is not yet the perfect scenario. I just thought I would share in case you hadn't heard of this.

Yes thank you. I've read that thread. No it doesn't sound perfect, but it's a start. And at least it's an attempt. I would love to see some sort of report on how they are showing PETCO that they are profiting from it. That's how you're going to get other stores to follow in their footsteps and allow rescue and only rescue pet adoptions out of their stores. I see this as a someone is listening somewhere, and someone who can and is trying to do something about it.

[salana]

Originally Posted by Cagney

People will see a guinea pig. Fall in love and want that guinea pig only. They are not interchangeable. They are individuals much like the dogs and cats, that people are willing to prepare for and wait the 3 days to take home.

To some people (us), yes. To the average American, no, not really. They're "starter" pets, "disposable" animals that go in a tiny cage on top of the child's dresser.

Originally Posted by Cagney

Are you saying that cats and dogs are somehow on a different level than the guinea pigs? That over time people have been taught that taking home a dog or cat is something you need to prepare for, and that they can't be taught that with a guinea pig?

Oh, they probably can--once you teach them that, a lot of problems will be solved without the intervention of PetSmart.

Originally Posted by Cagney

Sure at first it would be frustrating. Sure you would have that scenario. But overtime now petsmart is now carring quality food and hays for these very same animals. So overtime why wouldn't they also offer appropriate housing? C&C cages can be pre made and available in store as well.

Not likely--shelf space is at a premium, and C&C cages are huge. Go look at the location of the large kennels and crates. On top of a tall rack of shelves, usually.

Originally Posted by Cagney

We've established that in general the general public will continue to shop at petsmart. That they will continue to purchase live pets as long as they are there.

Which is why we want to get people to stop lining petsmart's pockets, because as long as they stay in business, they will offer small animals for sale.

Originally Posted by Cagney

Until PETCO and Petsmart hit the country you went to your local petsore. There you purchased a puppy or kitten. Then someone said no more.

MANY someones said no more. Plus, the plight of dogs and cats in pet stores was immediately visible--a crying puppy or a mangy kitten with a runny nose. Small pets conceal their misery so people think they're perfectly happy. And the truth is, many people don't think of small pets as beings with personalities and feelings.

Now the two large chains offer adoptable cats and dogs, but mom and pop stores still sell puppies and kittens, and people still fork over unbelievable amounts of money for "labradoodles". The problem did not go away just because petco and petsmart have adoptables (which they profit off of by selling crap food people don't know not to purchase).

Originally Posted by Cagney

Although I'd love for a good reason for the sale of strollers for a dog.

People have more money than sense.

Originally Posted by Cagney

If the petstores stopped selling the live mill animals and did all rescues. If they carried the higher end brands of the guinea pig food and the better hays and supplies that are actually needed. If all animal adoptions out of their stores were rescues and rescues only, what would be the problem?

If, if, if. Your scenario doesn't fit the Petsmart/Petco profit model. They don't want to devote large amounts of floor space to housing rescue pigs, rats, etc. in appropriate enclosures. They don't want to stop carrying junk that makes a profit. They cater to the uninformed, impulse buyer. They thrive solely on the profit they get on every Bark Bites they sell to a guinea pig owner, every plastic tube they sell to a gerbil owner, every wire wheel they sell to a hamster owner. Well, that and the 15 cents they get on every can of crappy cat food like Fancy Feast.

Originally Posted by Cagney

Since the general public will continue to shop there why not in turn make the effort as a rescue to do what you can where you can?

Are you implying that rescues aren't doing what they can, where they can? Just because it isn't the way YOU would choose doesn't mean they're not making the effort.

And why don't YOU make the effort as a private person to do what YOU can where you can? As long as you are giving Petsmart profit, they are going to think that their way of doing things is fine. VOTE WITH YOUR DOLLAR. That's the language they understand. Your selective shopping means nothing to them.

Originally Posted by Cagney

Why wouldn't these little homeless cavies be worth that effort?

Perhaps rescuers think that forcing their cavies into the petstore mold is not beneficial to them.

Originally Posted by Cagney

It's worked for other animals, why not find a way to show petsmart how it can and will profit them. The basics are already in place. Why can't we try and figure out a way to finish the job?

You think we haven't? The first part of the job is to show them what they're losing. Stop shopping there and write them a letter, telling them that you will only resume shopping there once they no longer sell small animals. Then stick to it. If we all do it, and we all spread the word, we can bring them to their knees.

You are not doing step 1 and you are chiding us for our lack of vision? Get real.

Originally Posted by Cagney

Why take one possible scenario, make it into a negative one and then toss up your hands and say it won't happen. I think it's more likely to happen than getting everyone to cease petstore shopping. That I think won't ever happen for the general public.

Why take one possible scenario, make it into a negative one, and then toss up your hands and say it won't happen? You said it before--education. You think the public can't be educated not to shop at pet stores that sell small animals?

Originally Posted by Cagney

Yes KM's hay looks great. I haven't personally tried it yet. We know Oxbow is a good product. We know petsmart is now going to carry it.

You know, being in the midwest, shipping from Oxbow should be pretty low for you.

Originally Posted by Cagney

Why not try and use that as motivation to get those live mill animals out there? Why not try to make smaller type pet sales in petstores as much a thing of the past as the puppymill puppies?

That's what WE'RE doing by boycotting stores that sell small animals, and YOU'RE NOT.

Originally Posted by Cagney

It took time, and it took enough pressure for someone to say enough and make it work.

And you know what kind of pressure it took? A boycott. You know, the thing that you don't do.

Originally Posted by Cagney

As for petfood direct. I will never shop there. They carry products that are labeled for sale through a licensed veterinarian only. They are not a licensed veterinarian.

http://www.thehungrypuppy.com/
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/
http://www.oxbowhay.com/
http://www.kmshayloft.com/

I am sure there are suppliers local to you, if you would just spend less time defending your decision to buy from petsmart and more time looking around at your other options. Like a local feed store! Maybe you've got good sources of local hay that you just don't know about!

[Cagney]

Originally Posted by salana

Let's not forget the other exchange that takes place in Petsmart:
Semi-educated teenaged employee: Hi, can I help you?
Cagney: I'm here to buy Carefresh, pellets, and hay. I don't support your selling of small animals!
Semi-educated teenaged employee: Uh, okay.
Cagney: And I'm going to tell everyone not to buy animals from you, only supplies!
Semi-educated teenaged employee: Um, whatever.
Cagney buys $40 worth of supplies. Petsmart makes a profit of $12. Cagney returns in 2 weeks and buys $40 more of supplies.

Now you tell me, Cagney, to the store manager who looks at the P&L, how are you any different than the second impulse buyer? Because you didn't spend the initial outlay of $150?

Well I'd have to say if instead of having a stuffed aquarium cage full of missexed guinea pigs there was someone from a rescue sitting there I would be ver different.

12 year old Petsmart employee: " Hi can I help you?"

Cagney: "I'm looking for a small pet, like a hamster or something."

12 year old : "You're in luck, our small pet rescue person is in taking care of the adoptable pets today, go down aisle 5."

Cagney: "Thank you."

Now Cagney walks over to aisle 5.........

Rescue: "Hi, can I help you with something?"

Cagney: "I'm looking for a hamster or something."

Rescue: "OK, I have a few hamsters needing a home. First why are you looking for a hamster?"

Cagney: "My 9 year old daughter wants a small pet."

Rescue: "I think it's great to teach young children proper pet care. Now are you also wanting this pet, because it is going to be your responsibility. We know how kids can be."

Cagney: "I understand. I had a hamster when I was a kid, and thought she might like one. The little guy bit me every chance he got."

Rescue: "Yes they do tend to be nippy. Have you considered a guinea pig?"

Cagney: "No, I hadn't thought of them, what are they like"

Rescue: Then tells Cagney about guinea pigs, how long they live, daily requirements of exercise, socialization, feeding, vet care, and cages.

Cagney: "They do sound like the better choice for our home."

Cagney then tells the rescue that she really likes the little abby male, and he seems so sweet and friendly.

Rescue: Then has Cagney fill out an application that asks basic questions and prescreens the applicant. Cagney seems like a good home. So the rescue tells Cagney that it will take 3 days for the application to be process. That the rescue needs to get the cute little abby male ready for his new home, and his buddy as well that the rescue explained that they do better in pairs and how they are bonded.

Cagney: "Oh I thought I would be able to take him home today. Can't I take him home today, I'm in love with him."

Rescue: then tells Cagney they are sorry. But like cats and dogs they need to prepare their home and make sure they are ready for the care these guys are going to require. So that the stress for them having a new home is lessoned.

Cagney: "OK that will be fine. That way I can talk it over with my husband and daughter. Can I take the printed flyer with their pics on it with me, and their information and the care sheets?"

Rescue: "Please do. I'll give you a call tomorrow and we can set up a time to get these guys home to you."

Cagney: "OK, I'll talk it over and we'll get the items from the check sheet you gave me, I can't wait!"

Rescue: "Me either, thank you and we'll see you soon!"

Now what is wrong with that? This is pretty close to how dog and cat rescue adoption conversations go. Either Cagney will not return the calls, will tell the rescue they have decided to wait because after taking a day to read over the infomation they've decided not to commit to the guinea pigs at this time after all. And since this is now the norm Cagney also does not drive down the street to the other petstore and buy a hamster.

Or the rescue calls Cagney the next day. Cagney is happy to announce that their family is too excited for guinea pig boys to come live with them. That they are going to set up the cage that day and have everything ready to go in a couple of days when they meet to pick up the boys.


Now the petstore has made their profit off of supplies. Mill A has closed down, and mill B is soon to follow. The two rescues have a home that's prepared for them.

I like my scenarios.

[salana]

Originally Posted by Cagney

Now what is wrong with that? This is pretty close to how dog and cat rescue adoption conversations go. Either Cagney will not return the calls, will tell the rescue they have decided to wait because after taking a day to read over the infomation they've decided not to commit to the guinea pigs at this time after all. And since this is now the norm Cagney also does not drive down the street to the other petstore and buy a hamster.

...

Now the petstore has made their profit off of supplies.

Not if Cagney decides not to get the pigs she was interested in, and returns or never buys the supplies.

The pet stores want to sell stuff to every person who wants a pet, not just to every good pet owner.

P.S. You have already acquired your guinea pigs--you don't need a rescuer's help in deciding which pet to get--you are supporting the status quo by buying from a store with no rescuer.

[salana]

I, personally, like to skulk around the small pet aisles at Petsmart and actively encourage people to buy better products from better suppliers. But that's just me.

[Cagney]

OK so I can't figure out the multiple quotes. I'll try to sum up some responses.

Kittens were at one point considered to be disposable. Larger breed dogs thought to be outdoor. Guinea pigs when I was a child were really disposable. There is a lot more information in general out there anymore.

Yes I've seen the large dog crates. They still carry them. They also only stock on the shelves a small amount of the inappropriate sized small animal cages. A unassembled C&C cage would take up about the same amount of space.

Why can't many more people say no more to the smaller pets? Why can't the rescue sitting right there educate people to the also, or at least to me, obvious health and other issues with the smaller pets right there in front of them. Yes people still fork over hundreds of dollars for the doodles and other puppy mill puppies. But that number through education has been greatly reduced in the last couple of years.

As for the more money than sense with the strollers and other such items. LOL I can't argue that and fully agree.

No they probably won't stop carrying the junk that makes a profit. They still sell the junk cat and dog food. But with the rescues being right there, the amount of junk being sold and the higher end foods and toys and treats has increased as well.

How many times do I need to state I didn't know any different. And until someone took the time to kindly educate me on other sites I wouldn't have known any better. I have said an online order from me has been placed. But not through places like foster's and smith, petfood direct. I will not place through them.

Never said rescues weren't doing what they can when they can. Just why not try and do more. Educate kindly. I'm not attacking anyone. I'm not saying any rescue isn't doing what they can. I am learning and doing what I can with what I learn. Even though a few others aren't making it easy, or wanting to make me hear what they are saying by the way they state it. Have I ever said I will never stop shopping at Petsmart? Have I even said that I plan on shopping there in the future?


You've said yourself the smaller pets are a loosing item for them. That they make money off of supplies. Why not show them another way to get rid of those money loosing smaller pets and still make that profit, hopefully by purchase of the high end and nurtritionally balanced products?

I don't think the public can be educated not to shop there. I don't think the public will give up the conveniance of shopping there. Therefore a noticeable boycott on product wouldn't stand much of a realistic chance. Never said I wasn't the one not boycotting, or even not wanting to make the effort to not purchase from them. Again I have stated that I have learned and am making the effort to purchase elsewhere. And again because of education stated in a kind and informative fashion.

And also local feed stores sell live animals. At least the ones in my area do. They sell 4-H, and planned as well as accidental litters of live pets. They also do not carry the high end dog foods I feed my dogs. Again at least in my area. They for small pet wise including dogs and cats sell the lower end cheaper products that are made to look high end. Along with live pets.


I'm not sticking to one side here. I'm simply inquiring to the possibility of trying to figure out a way to get the live mill animals out of there and replace them with rescue ones. Much like what has been accomplished with dogs, cats, rabbits and ferrets in my area. Not sure why I'm being met with such resistance and have struck an obvious nerve with it?

[Cagney]

Originally Posted by salana

Not if Cagney decides not to get the pigs she was interested in, and returns or never buys the supplies.

The pet stores want to sell stuff to every person who wants a pet, not just to every good pet owner.

P.S. You have already acquired your guinea pigs--you don't need a rescuer's help in deciding which pet to get--you are supporting the status quo by buying from a store with no rescuer.

Exactly. Would be the same if Cagney had looked at a rescue dog or cat there. No sale of product once she decided not to get that individual pet. But yet they still allow the dog and cat rescues to operate through their store. Because enough to decide to go through with the adoption. Enough to listen to the rescue and purchase the higher end products.

As for the PS are we still talking scenario? If we are, there weren't any mill guinea pigs there. Cagney did need the rescue's help, because there isn't another option.

If we are now talking about my personal guinea pigs. They are from a rescue. All of them. No status quo about it. They were dumped in 90 degree heat in a cat carrier in front of the humane society. The other 2 were rescued from someone off of craigslist. My other rescues were also dumps and are looking for homes.

Not sure where we are on that?

[Cagney]

Originally Posted by salana

I, personally, like to skulk around the small pet aisles at Petsmart and actively encourage people to buy better products from better suppliers. But that's just me.

And myself as well. When you're wearing vet scrubs you get much further, incase you weren't aware.

I like to skulk around the entire store since I do multi breed and species rescue. I start in the dog aisle and work my way to the smaller pets. I discourage people from going to banfield, doing petsmart training classes with their out of control puppies, and educate them about proper feeding and care. And I have found new joys in telling them I built a huge guinea pig cage for less than $40.

Maybe we'll cross paths one day and you'll realize we're not that different. Either I'm not presenting myself correctly, or really not sure what the problem is here.

Just cuirous as to why so many are being so negative about the possibility of guinea pig adoptions going the same way as the cat and dog ones have.

[salana]

Petsmart makes a profit off of you as long as you buy supplies there. Therefore you are telling them, with your dollar, that you're okay with the way they run things.

[Henle15]

Ok...here is the real story of the reason why petsmarts and petcos will not allow my guinea pig rescue in their store. I promote proper care of them which means the following items need to be set up and are told to people to buy. Plus I like to show people how to save money and go to the cheapest places because I beleive that animals should be affordable to anyone wanting one.


1. C&C cages: not allowed to set up or promote as they do not sell them so they are not making money from the sale of their glorified litterboxes they pass off as cages. ZERO money for petsmart

2. Bedding: I promote fleece, they don't sell that either so they won't make money off of that idea either. I will default to carefresh if people are not liking the fleece idea. But once I set the whole thing up and show people how to use it and how much easier it is than they start using fleece. I then send them to the local discount store to buy fleece blankets. ZERO money spent at petsmart.

3. Food, Water bottles, food bowls, supplies and accessories. My rescue can provide these at lower prices than the petsmart. Instead of a bowl costing $5.99, we sell it to them at $3.99 making around $1.50 to go towards the rescue. I tell people up front as a rescue what we get the item for and how much they are paying for it and show them that they are making a donation to help us keep operating. I don't hide the costs of what I am doing. Poeple LOVE this concept. They would rather give my rescue the donation then give petsmart the money to make the CEO's rich.

4. Screening process: my screening process is easy, but it does require time to sit down and fill out an application, then we talk to you about proper care, than we require at least a 2x4 C&C cage or equivilant before adoption, than a signed contract. Most people that go into a petstore want that piggy in less than 10 minutes and be out the door. ZERO money for petsmart.

5. Hay: we simply tell where to buy hay for cheaper (feed store) and they generally will go right ahead and buy it from there after looking at the crappy stuff on the store shelves that have been sitting there for months. ZERO money for petsmart.

So you can see that they don't want us in the petsmarts and petcos because we know what we are doing. They want rescues in there that will promote their products and nothing else. Plus doing events at a petstore is less efficinet and time wasting for us because 90% of our adoptions come through petfinder. The rest being vet referrals and previous adopter referrals. As an all volunteer rescue we need to be the most efficient and not try things that will waste our valuable time. If they stopped selling animals than it would be worth the time because we wouldn't have to compete with the selling vs adopting.

As an employee at a local humane society (my real job) I can tell you that many of the humane socieites would not have adoption centers in the petsmarts or petcos if the store employees cared for them. They take the animals home each night and bring them back. They also would never hold adoptions in puppy stores which essentially is what a small animal rescue would be doing by holding adoptions in a petstore that sells small animals. Also the dog/cat rescues in the stores would be non-existent if those stores sold dogs/cats. I have no problem with holding events in petsmarts but they won't let me because of the previous reasons.

Do you see the point of the rescues not holding adoption events in the stores? Go to your petsmart and ask that dog/cat rescue you see every weekend and ask them if they would hold adoption events if that store sold dogs/cats. I would suspect that they are going to say no!