Dogs Die to Teach Peru Soldiers How to Kill

[Weatherlight]

Welcome back!

You tried to stop the game by playing, fair enough. I wasn't referring to arguing, but to posting.

It's important to educate each other, but I think we need to see some fact about some of this, not just opinions. If you truely believe in one side, start putting up facts/statistics rather than opinions/small experiences so arguements are smaller?

If you didn't mean it literally, please explain. I took it at face value and interpreted it as meaning that stronger data is more conclusive than speculations and anecdotes, and superior evidence leaves less room for the clashes of speculation/opinion that fill knowledge voids.

You are just trying to start arguements.

No, I am not. You, however, made a false accusation, whether you were trying to or not. I feel offended. Please speak for yourself.

[~Fala~]

I still don't see how I was looking for human brain conditions. In the quote you posted from me:

"It's important to educate each other, but I think we need to see some fact about some of this, not just opinions. If you truely believe in one side, start putting up facts/statistics rather than opinions/small experiences so arguements are smaller?"

I was referring to how people were argueing over something (the article), you should give facts about the side you believe in. If I was referring to brian conditions you'd think in that qoute it would say "I would like to see some facts and statistics about human and brain conditions." However it doesn't say that.

When you said I made a false accusation about you, I'm so sorry I made a mistake. I ment you are starting arguements and that's why I am departing. If you want me to fight fire with fire, You made an accusation about me, how I was looking for facts about brain conditions when I wasn't.

Again I am leaving this thread, this time for good. Good bye!

[~Fala~]

Originally Posted by ~Fala~

I still don't see how I was looking for human brain conditions. In the quote you posted from me:

"It's important to educate each other, but I think we need to see some fact about some of this, not just opinions. If you truely believe in one side, start putting up facts/statistics rather than opinions/small experiences so arguements are smaller?"

I was referring to how people were argueing over something (the article), you should give facts about the side you believe in. If I was referring to brian conditions you'd think in that qoute it would say "I would like to see some facts and statistics about human and brain conditions." However it doesn't say that.

When you said I made a false accusation about you, I'm so sorry I made a mistake. I ment you are starting arguements and that's why I am departing. If you want me to fight fire with fire, You made an accusation about me, how I was looking for facts about brain conditions when I wasn't.

Again I am leaving this thread, this time for good. Good bye!

Sorry I was told you aren't allowed to post "I'm leaving". Also, sorry for double posting..

[Weatherlight]

Sigh, I never said you were looking for facts about brain conditions specifically. I thought in your first post you meant, well, exactly as I posted my interpretation. You also seemed skeptical about mental health (or the lack of) of some individuals as I described, and I thought it might be of interest to you. I concluded that you might like some facts about mental health and personality traits, as opposed to people just going back and forth with speculations about mental health. That's all, no putting words in your mouth, no claiming to read your mind, no hostility. I hope I explained clearly enough this time.

And thank you for clarifying. Whether or not you read this sometime, I hope I'm not stopping you from participating in discussions you'd otherwise enjoy.

[Char-x]

Originally Posted by Weatherlight

A sincere emotional response. People have clarified that it's really what they want. Of course one also said that while they'd support others doing it, they wouldn't dirty their own hands =|

I'll try and explain again If it was standard punishment for acts of cruelty like that I would not complain, would I go out and do it myself? No. The same way the electric chair/lethal injection is fair punishment (prehaps even light punishment) for prooven murderers, would I go and take it upon myself to poison them to death or electric them to death? Again, no.

[Weatherlight]

Why not? Only because you'd get in trouble because it's illegal to do it yourself? Or because it would make you "as bad as" them?

So many murderers think their own reasons are justified.

[Justin]

Originally Posted by Weatherlight

Earthworms are animals, by the definition.

I consider them to be sentient beings, as they do have nervous systems that seem likely to give them the ability to feel. Same with insects. It would be so convenient if they turned out to not be sentient though. Sigh.

I gave it some thought and agreed that they are sentient beings too. It made me down. I may consider other options regarding my kois' diet.

Then I remembered that I never wanted to make all my sentient beings happy.
Also, the earthworms are helping with my garbage. You can't save earth unless you are willing to sacrifice others. So I am up again.

[piggly wiggly]

I don't understand how this thread has gone so far. How far do you go with sentiment beings? Is every living thing a sentiment being? If so, does that mean you live with mosquitos eating at you? I am sorry, but I will use repellent, and squash one if it lands on me, I don't want to be bitten.I think this thread has gone a bit far, someone saying out of anger that the people who did this should be skinned alive is one thing, people on here breaking it down and making it sound as if he/she was evil for even saying such a thing, and making it out like she would go and do it is crazy. The people who did this are horrid, and I think a stern talking to will not do the trick with them. This whole sentiment being thing, is a little hard to swallow, someone who does such an act as this, is no sentiment being. I think they should get the chair. Canada has gotten rid of the death penalty, too bad. Now our crime rate is out of control. Criminals like the ones who did this, know there is no justice and they won't get punished. Off topic, but here if you commit murder you get 10 years but only have to serve 2/3 of your sentence, imagine what you get for torturing an animal? Up to a $5000 fine, nice huh. I think our judges need to think more along the lines of an eye for eye, I do, and if that makes me horible for thinking so, I don't mind, because atleast then people may think twice before commiting a horrible act.

[Char-x]

Yeah agreed, to be honest I think what I think, if people want to think I'm sick for thinking it, go ahead. My initial reaction was to agree with the posts, so I would be lying if I said I didnt.

If we are talking about everything be equal from earthworms and up then really the dogs deserve just as much justice as a human would if that happens to them.

I always take the side of the voiceless in cases anyway, thats just me, be it children or animals I do have a natural reaction to jump to their defence an want justice done for them.

[piggly wiggly]

I guess we should stop cutting the grass, or pulling weeds, I don't want them to seek revenge on me..

[Justin]

Believing that earthworms and insects are sentient doesn't mean that I have to treat them equally with other sentient beings. There are layers, like onions. I will say that the earthworms are at the outer shell, guinea pigs are somewhere in the middle, human beings are somewhere inner, sorted by relationships with me.

It still helps though. For example, I now think it's not so good for my soul to put a fishing needle through an earthworm as a "sport." (But I decided that feeding it to a koi is okay as its less painful.) I wouldn't worry about revenge, they are not sentient enough to seek revenge.

[Char-x]

Originally Posted by Justin

Believing that earthworms and insects are sentient doesn't mean that I have to treat them equally with other sentient beings. There are layers, like onions. I will say that the earthworms are at the outer shell, guinea pigs are somewhere in the middle, human beings are somewhere inner, sorted by relationships with me.

It still helps though. For example, I now think it's not so good for my soul to put a fishing needle through an earthworm as a "sport." (But I decided that feeding it to a koi is okay as its less painful.) I wouldn't worry about revenge, they are not sentient enough to seek revenge.

My post wasn't aimed at you but I'm not sure what koi is? Could you explain as I'm interested

[piggly wiggly]

I believe koi are fish, pond fish.

[Guinea Lover 27]

Koi get quite large and are rather beautiful. Although they were bred and mutated genetically to look so pretty...

As for sentient life - I too question how one can decide which of them are less important.

I hate flys and mosiquitos and kill them with pleasure. However, I love spiders and welcome them in my home - I've even been known to pick them up with my bare hands just to move them. I like worms also, but love fishing with them as well as feed them off to my box turtles and aquatic turtles.

Some people think of guinea pigs, cats and dogs as food... (BTW, I'm part Asian and took no offense whatsoever to the Asians eat dogs comments - there are people in my family (not in America) who eat them - would I ? - Gross no - but I love beef, chicken, pig and turkey. I also keep 2 pet pigs, 3 pet chickens (I eat their eggs) and 3 pet turkeys... Would never kill and eat them though...

We all have different opinions on the matter - but it doesn't make any one right or wrong.

Animal cruelty - like torturing dogs to help soldiers feel better about killing humans in combat though is unacceptable to me. But there are millions of peoople who hate animals and don't think twice about them being killed or tortured.

Sad stuff.

[Weatherlight]

You can't save earth unless you are willing to sacrifice others. So I am up again.

Have I mentioned how delightful you can be? The necessity of sacrificing sentient beings wouldn't make me "up."

I haven't bought any worms. I'm thinking some will feed off my compost piles, though. I'm pretty down about using them and that they will likely breed more than if I weren't composting. It's very utilitarian of me but I think it is better than the alternatives, so I live with it.

How far do you go with sentiment beings?

I don't think you've been reading my posts very well.

I am sorry, but I will use repellent, and squash one if it lands on me, I don't want to be bitten.

I use nonlethal repellants since I don't want to be bitten either. However, it's just useless, vengeful malice to murder someone for biting you. If one lands on me and I shake her off, no harm done. If one lands on me and she bites me before I shake her off, I'm bitten anyway! Killing her doesn't make me "unbitten."

I think this thread has gone a bit far, someone saying out of anger that the people who did this should be skinned alive is one thing, people on here breaking it down and making it sound as if he/she was evil for even saying such a thing, and making it out like she would go and do it is crazy.

Someone saying repeatedly that they would support it sounded like they were sincere. Or are you accusing them of saying things they don't mean just because they're angry? Not everything that angry people says is a lie, you know. I'd find it pretty insulting if I said something I truly believe and you spoke for me, saying I didn't mean it, because I was angry.

Wouldn't they do it if they had the means, the legal permission, and the stomach for it? They'd certainly have others do it for them, which is effectively the same thing. It's no different from slaughtering a dog or paying someone to butcher your dog for you.

The people who did this are horrid, and I think a stern talking to will not do the trick with them.

Hey, I got this crazy new idea. Call me stupid, but maybe, just maybe, we can protect people without torturing them?

I would hope that most people with cavies and cats or dogs would use physical barriers and perhaps some additional measures to protect their cavies, without resorting to slowly torturing their cats/dogs to death. Thinking the latter is the only option, other than a useless lecture, is ridiculous.

someone who does such an act as this, is no sentiment being

Please try again.

I think they should get the chair.

I'm so glad your opinion doesn't dictate Canadian law. We have enough murderous people who put vengeance and sadism over morality running countries already.

Canada has gotten rid of the death penalty, too bad. Now our crime rate is out of control.

Where did you get the idea that the two are connected? Murder breeds more murder, if anything. Have you done any actual research on capital punishment? Here's a good intro: Death Penalty*:*Facts

Here are actual numbers on correlation between the use of DP and crime rates: Death Penalty*:*Deterrence

Criminals like the ones who did this, know there is no justice and they won't get punished.

Because criminals plan to get caught, right?

Off topic, but here if you commit murder you get 10 years but only have to serve 2/3 of your sentence

Source?

If it were true, that would be horrible. Pretty big "if."

because atleast then people may think twice before commiting a horrible act.

Or may not. Probably not. One key to making good decisions is understanding relevant facts.

If we are talking about everything be equal from earthworms and up then really the dogs deserve just as much justice as a human would if that happens to them.

an want justice done for them.

Indeed. And justice is about what ought to happen, what is right. Tell me, which of the following is right? Which ought to happen, in your opinion? What is true justice?

-All children and dogs are well taken care of. Everyone is pleasant, happy, and peaceful. They also have as much empathy, morality, and self-control as their genetic potential allows. No one murders anyone else.

-Humans grow up murdering each other and dogs, and wanting to torture and murder humans who torture and murder others (and wanting to murder dogs who bite anyone). Some men from Peru torture and murder a dog, so other men, acting on the orders of some very angry Americans, Canadians, etc tie them up, skin them alive, and pack them in salt.

I have no words for anyone who thinks the 2nd option is more just.

If someone is murdered, how is it "defending" them in any way to cause more pain instead of healing what can be healed? If you want to defend them, prevent them from being victims of this treatment in the first place.

they are not sentient enough to seek revenge.

Sentience is not about the ability to be vengeful.

but it doesn't make any one right or wrong.

I would say it does. I say it DOES make it wrong, what happened in that article. I say it DOES make it wrong, regardless of what millions, billions, or octillions of people may think. I am not a moral subjectivist, and for good reason.