Dogs Die to Teach Peru Soldiers How to Kill

[Weatherlight]

And I hope no one actually wants to, either.

You think it is just and deserved to be skinned and packed in salt for torturing and eating a dog? You have a LOT of Asian humans to be skinning, then. Buy a lot of salt.

Add cats, mice, and birds to the list and I think you have nearly every human on the planet. Good thing that nonspeciesists who think like you don't actually get to skin everyone they want to. To nonhumans, we're all mass murderers.

What do you think your own just deserts would be? Getting slowly crushed to death, one body part at a time? Being factory farmed and boiled alive?

[Char-x]

Originally Posted by Weatherlight

What do you think your own just deserts would be? Getting slowly crushed to death, one body part at a time? Being factory farmed and boiled alive?

Well my just desserts wouldn't be too bad since I don't eat animals and pretty much try and live a cruelty free life.

[Weatherlight]

Trying only gets you so far.

My household is vegan and doesn't like to support commercial agriculture, with its pesticides (certified organic farms often replace synthetic pesticides with "natural" ones), herbicides and other toxins that cause harm, trapping and other ways of hurting wildlife for profiting from crops, exploitation of virtually powerless workers, and so on.

We cut an earthworm with a shovel today

Not to mention, none of us were always vegan. When I was 5 years old or so, my father, brother, and I would hunt for snails in the yard, turn them upside down, and pour rock salt into the shells. My mom killed ants, flies, and spiders and I was only happy to help.

If all these animals were self-aware, were able to comprehend what happened and what I did, were vengeful, and had the power to carry out revenge, well damn, I think their idea of my just deserts would be pretty unpleasant to me.

Anyway, don't you have friends, family, neighbors who aren't veg*n? What would their just deserts be?

[cavy phoenix]

If this site allowed people to swear...well lets leave it at that. i can't believe anyone would do that its sick.

[Tamgirl1983]

Way to stereotype Asians. How many Asians do you know that eat dogs? Or did you just see the pictures on the internet and hear about it in rumors? Where they Chinese or Japanese or were they from Korea or Laos? And did those pictures make you angry ? Well this particular story and picture made me angry. I said what I personally felt would be a good punishment for these particular "soilders". As would it be for anyone who intentionally TORTURES a helpless animal, or person for that matter. The point that angered me the most was the torture. If we went to H-E- double hockey sticks for actions like this , then that is definitely where I hope these people go , for all eternity. If that offends you I'm sorry , but thats how I feel. There was no usefullness from this crime. No one "learned " anything. They didn't use the dog for meat to feed themselves. They simply tortured it until it died . That is unjust, and a waste of a precious life.

[Char-x]

Originally Posted by Weatherlight

Trying only gets you so far.

My household is vegan and doesn't like to support commercial agriculture, with its pesticides (certified organic farms often replace synthetic pesticides with "natural" ones), herbicides and other toxins that cause harm, trapping and other ways of hurting wildlife for profiting from crops, exploitation of virtually powerless workers, and so on.

We cut an earthworm with a shovel today

Not to mention, none of us were always vegan. When I was 5 years old or so, my father, brother, and I would hunt for snails in the yard, turn them upside down, and pour rock salt into the shells. My mom killed ants, flies, and spiders and I was only happy to help.

If all these animals were self-aware, were able to comprehend what happened and what I did, were vengeful, and had the power to carry out revenge, well damn, I think their idea of my just deserts would be pretty unpleasant to me.

Anyway, don't you have friends, family, neighbors who aren't veg*n? What would their just deserts be?

I dont get where diet came into this particular topic, I'm not going to start a debate over whose a veg*n and whose not when this is about cruelty on a different matter and scale. These people had no reason to do it other than to make them more hardened towards innocent blood, and so they wont feel as bad when they murder a innocent civilian, children and so forth...so they deserve absouloutly no punishment? Thats your oppinion. Mine is people if they go out their way to bitterly murder something, be it any species, in one of the worst ways possible without a care in the world, then yes they deserve it back, would I go and do it to them? No. I've always thought that about murderers etc. Meat is a whole different kettle of fish however IMO. Do I think those adults who torture chickens PURPOSELY for entertainment in KFC factories, and people who stamp into piglets faces deserve it back ? Yes. I do. Thats my oppinion. Its not however about the dogs in question.

[Weatherlight]

Way to stereotype Asians.

I just used them as an example because there are a LOT of them that eat dogs. Certainly not all.

How many Asians do you know that eat dogs?

Personally? I talked to many face to face about their dog-eating. *shrug*

Or did you just see the pictures on the internet and hear about it in rumors?

That too, but not "just."

Where they Chinese or Japanese or were they from Korea or Laos?

China, Korea, the Philippines. The ones I talked to were Korean. It was in Korea that I saw dogs crammed into cages in open markets, and skinned dog legs piled high on tables. It was in Korea that I participated in demos with KAPS against the practice.

And did those pictures make you angry ?

Sometimes, but I got over my sadistic, make-the-world-go-blind side. I ended up angry that these poor people had such experiences to make their brains in such shape, that they would do such things. No happy, healthy person could do it. I don't hate them any more than I hate people with URIs for coughing. It's a different form of sickness but they are sick all the same.

I wonder if people have done brain scans on individuals like those. That would be interesting to see.

As would it be for anyone who intentionally TORTURES a helpless animal, or person for that matter.

Like yourself, if you got your way, tied them up and made them helpless, and tortured them?

They didn't use the dog for meat to feed themselves.

Not the muscle meat, no.

Dog-eating by Koreans is no longer done out of starvation. It's a huge business. It's more expensive than beef. Older, richer men are the main customers. People believe the myths that eating dog will increase, err, help you "in bed," and that it will help you cope with summer heat. As for torture, now it's more efficient for larger businesses to electrocute the dogs to death, but people still believe the myth that torturing for as long as possible releases more adrenaline and improves the meat. That's why people would hang them and beat them for hours before they died, not pure sadism. Although I'm sure there was some of that too.

That is unjust, and a waste of a precious life.

Who are you to decide what life is precious and what is not?

Unjust, yes. Wasted, yes IMO and yours. Wasted, no, useful in theirs.

These people had no reason to do it other than to make them more hardened towards innocent blood, and so they wont feel as bad when they murder a innocent civilian, children and so forth...so they deserve absouloutly no punishment?

My family had no reason to do it other than [for fun] / [intolerance, being grossed out by bugs] / [convenience]...so we deserve absolutely no punishment?

would I go and do it to them? No

Why not? Do you not take your own beliefs seriously?

I've always thought that about murderers etc.

What does it make people who carry out their own form of "justice" by tying people up and torturing them?

Would you approve of people who skinned dogs and packed them in salt for biting humans? Hehe, and if a family dog bit the child, and the child tried to protect the dog because they still love each other, would you punish the child for obstructing justice? Cute logic there.

Meat is a whole different kettle of fish however IMO.

Why? It involves people supporting the murder of sentient beings, for their own selfish ends, not caring about how much they suffer. Being stamped in the face is almost nothing in comparison to some routine factory farm practices.

Also, many parents buy corpses, bring them home, and force their young children to eat them, to "get them used to it." When children resist, they are coerced into eating it, told things like "you'll get sick otherwise, you need the protein." Interesting parallel.

Even after I got used to eating animal flesh, I remember watching Disney's The Little Mermaid and loving the cute crab. My mom bought live crabs, fridged them, took them out, put them on a cutting board, vented them by jamming a screwdriver right through them, then dropped them in boiling water, still alive and trying to escape. I thought of them as sentient beings, was upset by what they must be feeling as they went through this, and begged her to stop. She assured me that these are crabs and Sebastian is a lobster, so they're different. She fed me the cooked crab and I loved the taste. Soon that convinced me to treat crab-cooking and eating like any other food. Hmm. "Hardening up" indeed.

Its not however about the dogs in question.

Huh? Sorry, I don't follow.

[Char-x]

I'm not going to start judging what other peoples punishments would be for totally different topics, all I said was when I read the posts you pulled up, I agreed with them, I wouldn't mind it being done back to them. Simply that, to me this is one of the worst cases of cruelty because of the pure and blatent fact they made the dog trust them, be a pet, a loving companion just for more effect to only go and do this to them.

Oh and I take my beliefs about animal rights very seriously, thank you, but no I wouldnt go and murder people over it, just because I agreed with a post does not mean I would go and do it to them. Sure if there was punishments along those lines for those in charge of it, I wouldn't complain, but I would not physically go and do that to someone as it would make me as bad as them to act out that. Can I just emphasis that these aren't lovely innocent people we are talking about here they are people who are being trained to enjoy killing innocents, they will go on to kill civilians, women and children. Sure they may be brain washed, but the people in charge of setting up the horrific practices of this should be punished in my oppinion.

Would you approve of people who skinned dogs and packed them in salt for biting humans? Hehe, and if a family dog bit the child, and the child tried to protect the dog because they still love each other, would you punish the child for obstructing justice? Cute logic there.

No...because the dog didn't do that to them, if a dog causes a danger to children and society I agree for everyones sake it should be pts. Hehe? Yep it's a hilarious subject here . Punish a child, hmm no because I believe children are not completely responsible for themselves and how they react to things. Again, the people in the videos are grown men who I pressume can think for themselves, the people in charge certainly can and therefore do I believe they should be in some way punished for causing an innocent dog, they made put trust into them, extreme pain and a tortorous death? Yes I do. Like I mentioned I'm not going to start being a judge and jury for all types of scenarious you think up, I agreed with a post, and that was my honest oppinion.

To be fair I'm just not going to start getting into veg*n/meat eating argument on a thread which should be focussed on the link given, which is what I meant about "it's not about the dogs in question". It just always goes way off topic and I think thats unfair on the oringinal poster and the important subject which this should be focusessed on. By all means start a new thread though.

[~Fala~]

Originally Posted by Justin

That's why we should vote.

I'm not sure what you mean by this, would you please explain?

Also I read the article, it seemed to be centered around the fact that it IS animal cruelty. I personally agree with whomever wrote this article that it is cruelty. Most of their quotes if not all, had opinions saying it was a cruel act. I also want to say to the people argueing, I believe everyone has their rightful opinion. There is no one person on this earth who is absolutely correct in their opinion, as I say this, I am not totally right in my opinion but it's only fair to take it into consideration. I think we should just take everyone's thoughts, mix it all up and see what we get?

To take what Justin said and twist it, that's why we vote. (where I live at least) I don't see why we should, if we already do? Everyone is raised differently, we vote to see what the majority wants. I think we should vote with other countries/providences though for several reasons, but you know that probably won't happen, not anytime soon at least.

This just caught my eye as I skimmed through..

Quoteing Weatherlight
"Sometimes, but I got over my sadistic, make-the-world-go-blind side. I ended up angry that these poor people had such experiences to make their brains in such shape, that they would do such things. No happy, healthy person could do it. I don't hate them any more than I hate people with URIs for coughing. It's a different form of sickness but they are sick all the same.

I wonder if people have done brain scans on individuals like those. That would be interesting to see."

My opinion on this statement: Who says there is something wrong with their brain? Just because they have learned a different way than you and think differently than you doesn't mean there is something wrong with them or they are sick. I agree with you in a way, you would think there is something wrong with them, but I also think it's wrong to say that when it probably isn't true. This just goes to show, everyone is blind in their opinions to an extent. It's important to educate each other, but I think we need to see some fact about some of this, not just opinions. If you truely believe in one side, start putting up facts/statistics rather than opinions/small experiences so arguements are smaller? Just a thought

I know I am overthinking this, but I did so to maybe show everyone that we need to think about things differently to get to better solutions. Argueing over things withouth facts are not going to help us get to an agreement. So that's how the world is, never in agreement, that's why there are wars in the first place, otherwise this dog and many others wouldn't be harmed. People think differently... it's all a big chain of stupidness in my opinion. This was just to get my opinion out, which I rarely do much of because there are always people who think differently and start more arguements, I could go on and on but I'll finally end here. Thank you for anyone who took the time to read. haha

[CF#5]

This debate can be summarized adequately by pointing out that the inclination for revenge is a human desire that is generally not shared by animals. Often, those seeking revenge for an atrocity were not the victims of the initial crime, and have a God-complex because they feel it's their place to mete out punishment and fail to realize their form of "justice" is at least as barbaric as the initial crime they're trying to avenge.

That being said, I couldn't agree more with Tamgirl1983. Call me a hypocrite all day and all night. I don't really care. I never claimed to be a hero, and I never said I was a saint. I'm far from perfect.

Originally Posted by Weatherlight

We cut an earthworm with a shovel today

You breeder!

[Weatherlight]

Sure if there was punishments along those lines for those in charge of it, I wouldn't complain, but I would not physically go and do that to someone as it would make me as bad as them to act out that.

That is curious. If it would make someone immoral to do x, then isn't x an immoral act? And if x is an immoral act, wouldn't you complain (to say the least)? If something is immoral, then I think I ought to

-not do it (just like you)
-not support it (unlike you)
-complain and try to get it stopped (unlike you)

It makes no sense to me to think something is moral if we're talking about me supporting it, voting for it, paying someone else to do it, etc but immoral if we're talking about me doing it with my own hands.

Can I just emphasis that these aren't lovely innocent people we are talking about here

Lovely or not, innocent or not, male or female, whatever race, whatever species, young or not, beautiful or not, murderous or charitable or healthy or not, all sentient beings have the right to life.

Sure they may be brain washed, but the people in charge of setting up the horrific practices of this should be punished in my oppinion.

We're all "brain washed." You can stop packing these people in salt and go after their superiors instead. Then you can stop with them and go after their superiors, or religious leaders or politicians who taught them since childhood that these are acceptable means to some ends; then you can stop that and go after whoever made them think and act the way they do, etc.

To who do you pin the ultimate blame, the start of it all?

And of course, while you (or the government you support, or whoever) are doing all this, some other outraged people--perhaps the victims' family--are saying you are evil hypocrites and deserve to be skinned and packed in salt, then maybe rethinking that and deciding to go after whoever brainwashed you instead

No...because the dog didn't do that to them, if a dog causes a danger to children and society I agree for everyones sake it should be pts.

Dogs don't pack people in salt, no. Nor did these people pack dogs in salt. Maybe those people should just bite the dog?

Any dog, cat, human, etc can be dangerous. That's no reason to execute people. The "vicious dog" myth is still so widespread, it is sad. Most housedogs in this country are time bombs, biters waiting to happen, easily triggered. They are no different from the time bombs that did go off, no less and no more likely to bite in the future. See The Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson for more on the reality of dog aggression.

The good news is that most can be rehabilitated and/or managed with a reasonable level of commitment. The bad news is that for the more serious cases, forever unpredictable, especially those with no bite inhibition, you need a lot of physical management for life.

Yep it's a hilarious subject here

I find "my reason for murdering people is right, and your reason isn't" mentality funny in a very sad way, actually, like many other things. Like phprules: It's teh sad funnies!

Punish a child, hmm no because I believe children are not completely responsible for themselves and how they react to things. Again, the people in the videos are grown men who I pressume can think for themselves, the people in charge certainly can and therefore do I believe they should be in some way punished for causing an innocent dog, they made put trust into them, extreme pain and a tortorous death? Yes I do.

Responsibility is a human construct. Obviously they cannot think very well if they're acting that way.

It just always goes way off topic and I think thats unfair on the oringinal poster and the important subject which this should be focusessed on.

I think it was off topic from the moment "ways to torture the humans in this article" was added to the thread. I'm just responding to that belief.

Another thought: Do you think the dogs would be happier if their tormenters were skinned and packed in salt? Even ignoring the fact that they're dead--if they had souls, or if some had survived, or whatever, would they be happier?

Who says there is something wrong with their brain? Just because they have learned a different way than you and think differently than you doesn't mean there is something wrong with them or they are sick.

The line between illness and health is quite arbitrary in a lot of cases, true. But learning some "ways" is, I maintain, mentally ill. I wouldn't say so for a cat who rips apart an insect or small rodent, but for humans, I believe good mental health includes functional empathy, strong reasoning ability, and happiness. Happy people are not violent. See Article: Body Pleasure and the Origins of Violence

If you'd like information on physical abnormalities in the brain of people with so-called personality disorders, I can try looking some up for you later.

You breeder!

Gee, thanks for posting before I did while I was afk. And only if both halves survived

[Justin]

Originally Posted by ~Fala~

I'm not sure what you mean by this, would you please explain?

I meant that we can vote against war and animal cruelty. Or at least try. It was just a vague comment. I forgot that this forum doesn't allow politics.

[Justin]

Originally Posted by CF#5

Call me a hypocrite all day and all night. I don't really care. I never claimed to be a hero, and I never said I was a saint. I'm far from perfect.

I like that. We don't have to all agree in one conclusion.

Originally Posted by CF#5

You breeder!

We don't consider earthworms as animals, or do we? I have a few thousands each of red wrigglers and European night crawlers in "Worm Factory" bins.