A Thought ...

[Susan9608]

I don't want to become public enemy #1 with this post, but I wonder if anyone besides me has had this thought ...

We're all (well, a majority of us anyways) agreed that adopting is better than purchasing pets. Have you ever wondered, though, why the adoption process has to be so arduous?

To me, it seems unnecessarily complicated, and as awful as I know it is, I sometimes think it's no wonder people choose to go to pet stores rather than shelters.

My husband and I attempted to adopt a guinea pig from a local rescue group; we wanted a male to be a companion to the male pig we already had. I had to fill out a twenty page application, detailing everything about me except my underwear size. While I understand the goal (ensuring quality homes for pets), even I found it very intrusive. I wonder what someone who is not as much of an animal nut as myself would think?

After I filled out that application, my husband and I were rejected as adopters because the male pig we already had was not neutered, and it was their policy not to let guinea pigs go to homes with unaltered animals. Now, perhaps you all know something I don't, but isn't it impossible for two *male* guinea pigs to produce babies?

Again, I understand the goal (to prevent further breeding) but honestly - they turned down a fabulous, guinea pig friendly home just because their policy said our male pig had to be neutered. There seemed to be no room for flexibility or even rational thinking.

And then there's the cost .... this particular rescue organization required a $75 "donation" in order to adopt one of their animals. Most animal shelters charge a $100 to $150 adoption fee for any animal. I hate to say it, but I can see how people would think, "Why should I pay $75 for this animal when I can go to a pet store and buy the same kind of animal for $30?"

I don't know what everyone's areas are like, but in my area, there's a pet store practically on every corner, but animal shelters? You have to drive way out in the middle of no where to find one. And so many of them have rules ... you have to make an appointment, you have to have an approved application first, etc. etc. Again, I hate to say it, but I can see how people would choose a pet store.

I think it's despicable that animals are bought and sold like property. I'm a huge animal rights activist. My point, I guess, is that I don't understand why we - the animal rights people - are making it so difficult for people to adopt animals rather than buy them. I think we'd have a lot more success with adopting out guinea pigs if it just wasn't so difficult to do. In some ways, at least with the rescue organizations around me, the process seems designed to ensure failure.

And have you noticed that there's been a big push to spay and neuter dogs and cats? Most shelters require that the animal be altered before being adopted, or if it's adopted before it's old enough to be "fixed" then you get a coupon to bring it back in for the surgery. And some vets do a reduced fee surgery for animals adopted at an animal shelter. So why aren't we doing this same thing for guinea pigs? Why does it cost $200 to neuter a male guinea pig? Why aren't there any reduced costs clinics for that?

It just seems to me that we would be so much more successful in ending this overpopulation problem is we worked the problem from both ends. Instead of just telling people that pet stores are bad and that breeding is bad, we should have some kind of solution to offer ... a place to adopt where you aren't required to show your income tax forms from the past 7 years, where the fees are reasonable (or where a donation is really a donation and not a requirement), and where guinea pigs can be altered for a reasonable amount of money.

I think it's important that people are educated on the consequences of purchasing animals from pet stores; I think that is a vital thing. But I also think that unless there are other alternatives, considered viable by most people, then the pet stores will continue to win.

Anyways, I've babbled on enough. I hope I haven't said anything offensive or detrimental to our cause. This is just a thought that's been going through my head as I've read through these shelter vs. pet store posts.

[TinaFabulous]

wow, I think you just about covered everything there... I too was rejected as a adopter, and the lady didnt bother to email me back to tell me I had been rejected... I emailed her back saying that I hadnt herd back from her, and she simply told me I basically had been rejected and she had failed to mention it to me, and for a reason that wasnt true, she hardly explained why, but what she said wasnt true, so I emailed her back and set things straight, but its like she dosnt want to hear from me or something.

I have seriously been thinking petstore, I mean rescues and adoptable pigs are well over an hour from here, and while that might not seem like a super long distance, it is when your parents arnt really super excited about getting a second one. And to make it even harder one of the rescues is no longer going to have any chance of adopting from because aparently Im not fit for her pigs, and the other has no females, I could get one of their males but I dont have the money for neutering.... Its so complicated, I will keep an eye out for local piggers, but I doubt I will see any. There seems to be no alternative. The whole rescue adoption isnt going too well and its really complicated and in some cases expensive... I dont like what petstores do, but If I can drive 10min hand them $20 and get a guinea pig it sounds so much more simple, reasonable, and easier then continuing on the neverending journey of waiting and waiting and waiting for a pig to need a home, and even then its not always a female or the one I will want.

There needs to be an alternative, because if I can convince my parents about a second pig, I will want to get one as soon as I can, me and Furbs have waited long enough... I will first try to find a rescue, and if I cant, well then you can guess what I will wind up turning to.

I'm pretty much fed up with the whole adopting process... I understand that its to help find a good home for these pigs, Im basically with susan in every word she just said there.

[Susan9608]

Thank you, TinaFabulous, for your support. I am a little frightened that people will misinterprete what I wrote and think I am a "pro pet store" person, which I definitely am not.

[Setsuna]

I understand and agree.

[cinn&sprinslave]

I totally agree with you, and understand where you are coming from. Susan thanks for being brave posting about this subject!

[TinaFabulous]

ya it was pretty brave, thanks for bring it up

[critterlover]

Yes, I totally agree with you. Adoption is frustrating. I've been spending weeks trying to find a buddy for my pig. First I went to the SPCA and they only had 1 female and the lady seemed upset with me because I didn't want her (she took off before I had a chance to tell her I'm looking for a male). Then I asked for where else I could get a pig and they gave me an out-of-service number.

I've contacted the humane society now and it's been a week and they have yet to get back to me, but I do understand this is because it is run by volunteers. And if there's none in the city, the nearest would be a 45 minute drive, then a 2 hour ferry ride, then another 1 hour drive. Argh! Not to mention, this may be selfish, but I'm afraid they won't have many pigs for me to choose from and I won't be able to find one that we like. The adoption process seems to very slow and frustrating. It's so tempting just to go to a pet store and get it over with.

But all in all, doing the right thing is not always easy and we need to remember that and have patience, patience, patience...

[TinaFabulous]

Ya Im worried that I can find a rescue pig but I wont have any more to choose from, and what if I don't like the one we go to see? Its just so much work

[tuggles]

it is 14.99 here to buy a pig, and 10 from a shelter. some places are higher, like petco is 23.00 for a boy, and 28 for a girl, why, I dont know???

and it is only 35 to get a male guinea pig neutered.. I guess I'm glad I live where I do. .

but I'm w/ you, I saved 2 petstore animals. Yes, that is what I choose to call it, and sorry.. if I didn't do it, then they would be in a shelter, and that is where I would be getting them, so what is the difference.?

[Treen]

Because if you buy them from a pet shop (for whatever reason - the cash register doesn't care why) then it's a business transaction - you're contributing to demand and causing the circumstances which led you to feel that pig needed rescuing. You've just said 'I want what you have' and put your hand in your pocket which means that the shop then sees it's on to a winner and gets more animals in from the same breeder (or another). The breeders who either sold them ill pigs, or sold a pet shop healthy pigs not caring that the pet shop was going to neglect them. You're just perpetuating the situation and the people who don't give a jot about the animals, only making money, get their pockets lined.

If they couldn't sell animals because people weren't prepared to support them by rewarding them for lousy care, and therefore they ended up at the shelter, the pet shop would think 'Not getting any more of those in - they didn't make us a penny and we had to pay for their food'. And maybe (if people spoke up) 'plus loads of people came in and moaned at us which wasn't good for business'. The only thing business responds to is supply and demand, so it's entirely up to the customers what they do. By buying pets from there, you're voting with your wallet.

If you adopt from a shelter, you're not contributing to the problem - you're just helping an animal who's had a rough trot.

I know it's not easy to accept that for pet shops to stop selling animals, they have to have a period where they have animals in and no one buys them - they've done nothing wrong. But to buy them and reward the people who couldn't care less and who cause so many problems with overpopulation and neglect seems foolish - you're just telling them to go right ahead and do it all over again.

As for the adoption process being more complicated - so it jolly well should be! It's appalling that people can walk in to a million places and walk out five minutes later with any sort of animal which they have no idea how to care for. Personally I'm more than happy to be grilled - frankly it reassures me as I know that they care where those animals are going, and want to ensure that the people taking them are knowledgeable and responsible.

And the cost? Many rescues don't charge adoption fees that are that much higher than what you'd pay in a pet shop - and many ask for voluntary donations so it's up to you.

But rescues tend to care for their animals properly and get sick animals to the vet and all that shebang which costs money. Never mind the fact that a great proportion of the animals taken to rescues have long been neglected so have immediate health concerns that have to be attended to. That costs more than getting a pen, putting in a few females with a male, and then selling off the babies to 'whoever will give you money for them'.

Of course if you've been turned down for a ridiculous reason then it must be very frustrating. I think it's important in these cases to follow up a visit/ conversation with a letter clearly and calmly expplaining your circumstances, and why you think the decision to not let you adopt was unfair or irrelevant. Feedback always helps, especially in situations where people have felt put out and often don't express themselves too clearly because they're feeling hurt. But that's only one person/ organisation - don't let it put you off helping solve a problem rather than causing one.

[sofiemuffins]

I agree Treen. I'd rather be asked a million questions than not asked any at all when I go to adopt. The sole purpose of Animal Shelters is to find the animals a permenant home! Since I live in a big city, there's actually several animal shelters around-and one that I used to volunteer at. I guess I'm lucky, because when ever I want to adopt an animal, I can just go there because they all know me. I went there a few weeks ago to donate some blankets, and they had the cutest sow there! Poor thing was blind. They asked me if I wanted her...and they were going to just give her to me...but with Agnes about to give birth at the time I thought I should wait awhile. I'm thinking once I know the sexes of the babies (I have an idea-but I want to positive) that I might go back to see if she's still there.


And where I live, it's $300 to get a male fixed. The exotic vet costs around here are outrageous!

[Susan9608]

Hey guys. I am definitely a pro-adoption person ... I wasn't trying to suggest that people should purchase animals from pet stores because it's easier or more convenient. My point was that in my area, at least, adopting is so difficult and costly, that I can understand (even if I don't agree) why people choose pet stores. I'm glad to hear that adoptions are not so difficult in other areas - I think that's the way it should be. And I think that the shelters you all mentioned that have low adoption fees and such should be held as an example to other shelters, like the ones in my area.

Also, I agree that screening of prospective adopters is necessary and important; however, the adoption rescue I went to wanted to see my paycheck stubs to know our annual income and they wanted to know our plans for having children in the future and about any medical condition my husband and I might have. I found those types of questions a little intrusive ... and while we provided the information, we were still rejected.

I think this board has done wonderful things to promote adoption of animals. I've read lots of posts where members have gone to the effort of locating guinea pigs available for adoption for people who are comtemplating purchasing a pig, and I think that's fabulous.

Again I want to reiterate that I am NOT a pro-pet store person. I strongly believe that "adoption is the loving option."

[CavySpirit]

My point was that in my area, at least, adopting is so difficult and costly, that I can understand (even if I don't agree) why people choose pet stores.

The extreme vast majority of people who buy animals at pet stores are not making that decision because they were either refused by a rescue, found the adoption process too difficult, or even KNOW that rescues for anything other than cats or dogs exist. Most people remain completely clueless about small animal rescues for their entire small pet-owning lives. The only time they usually figure out that 'HEY, there's a rescue out there that I dump my pig on because we're having another baby and now we've got no time to deal with this pig anymore' is when they can't pawn their responsibility off on someone else, so they start to get a little creative.

Also, I agree that screening of prospective adopters is necessary and important; however, the adoption rescue I went to wanted to see my paycheck stubs to know our annual income and they wanted to know our plans for having children in the future and about any medical condition my husband and I might have. I found those types of questions a little intrusive ... and while we provided the information, we were still rejected.

I don't know why you were rejected, but I got another standard surrender/dump call YESTERDAY from a woman with the standard baby and pregnant excuse. Also, I get calls ALL THE TIME from people with pigs who need all flavors of vet care and the people calling CAN'T AFFORD IT or don't want to pay it. They are all either looking for me to give them some cheap over the counter remedy over the phone or take their pig from them and pay for it myself.

Personally, I don't ask those questions when screening adopters. I have some other techniques that I think work better, but it doesn't change the fact that the reality of finding good homes for animals is an art and not a science. No rescue asks those kinds of questions without the experience of needing to ask those kinds of questions.

And very definitely, not all rescues are the same. But I would prefer to see a rescue err on the side of caution, than have the people out there that are pure, unadulterated collectors calling themselves rescues and a few other unsavories.

I believe time is better spent cleaning up the rest of the mess of the pet trade than worrying about policing rescues at this point.

[Furkidsmommy]

Susan, I too am in the Dallas area and I know of only one rescue in the area, and there adoption application isn't too involved and thier adoption fee is only $25.

[critterlover]

Aren't people who make the effort to go to a rescue already showing that they take pig ownership seriously just by the fact that they won't take the easy way out and go to a pet store?

I understand that irresponsible people 'surrender' their pigs to a rescue all the time. I don't know, but I wonder how many people who go the extra mile to adopt from a rescue will one day 'surrender' their pig. My feeling is that this number is very small. So I don't know why responsible people like Susan are rejected after they make such an effort.

If the main reason for the pet store problem is that people don't know rescues exist then the solution would be more education. I still think that many people, even if they knew where the rescues are, would still go to a pet store. Many people are just so involved with their own daily lives that they don't spend time caring about the 'big picture' (not just with pets, but with many other issues as well) and just go to a petstore because it is closer or more convenient for them.

[CavySpirit]

Aren't people who make the effort to go to a rescue already showing that they take pig ownership seriously just by the fact that they won't take the easy way out and go to a pet store?

Yes, those people would prefer to adopt rather than go to a pet store. It still doesn't mean that they are a qualified home. I get plenty of people who call who want presents for their kids, a single pig for a pet store sized-cage, a pig for a classroom or daycare, a pig for their kid with the parent having very little interest, a pig for a kid who is way too young, a pig for the wrong reasons (small, less work, less care, easier than a cat or dog), the list goes on. We end up coaching those people into the right path for them--hopefully.

The flip side of doing rescue, is you provide an animal a minimum amount of care, potential vet care, cage-space, etc. I will never allow any my animals to be adopted out into a 'lesser' home. That is one with less space, etc. We invest in these animals and provide life-time guarantees. Yes, we are a bit fussy. We also provide a mountain of free education, supplies, grooming and care even after the adoption.

When I get the borderline adopter, one who isn't really up to snuff for my standards, but would make an okay pig owner, I ALWAYS work with them to adopt directly out of the shelter instead. And they are usually always very understanding about it.

I don't know, but I wonder how many people who go the extra mile to adopt from a rescue will one day 'surrender' their pig. My feeling is that this number is very small.

You'd be surprised. You really would. People's lives and interests (and especially the KID's interests) change very quickly in unplanned ways.

If the main reason for the pet store problem is that people don't know rescues exist then the solution would be more education.

Exactly. Hence this site, and the passion that some people have in trying to make changes.

Many people are just so involved with their own daily lives that they don't spend time caring about the 'big picture' (not just with pets, but with many other issues as well) and just go to a petstore because it is closer or more convenient for them.

The same could be said for cats and dogs, but public pressure brought to bear with strong leverage from rescues and animal welfarists made a big change on the cats and dogs for sale in pet stores.

And SOME rescues do have more of a revolving door policy. There are two very large guinea pig rescues in major metropolitan areas that have more a volume approach over highly screened and qualified adopters. That works for them. That doesn't work for everyone. Like I said before, not all rescues are the same. We're just people and we are all different trying to help and trying to make a difference.