Do you keep vegan pets?

[salana]

A recent trend is to feed dogs and cats vegan diets, to avoid supporting factory farming practices and/or the general consumption of meat by members of your household. However, there are some concerns about whether such a diet is appropriate for carnivores such as cats and ferrets.

So the question I would like to bring up for debate is, is it appropriate to impose your beliefs on an animal with dramatically different dietary needs? A related question: is it appropriate to support the killing of other animals by keeping carnivores as pets? (Not all pet food companies have factory farmed meat--many of the higher-end companies use organic meat.) Given that there are herbivorous animals that can be kept as pets, and omnivorous animals that can be fed a vegan diet, would it not be better to keep herbivores such as rabbits and guinea pigs, than to impose your dietary beliefs on a carnivore?

[kathrynj]

Ohhhhh, my dilemna exactly. I am so torn on this one.

My last cat passed away when he was 19 years old. I had thought that because of the meat eating/buying/supporting issue, I would not get another cat after he was gone.

After he passed away I was very greif stricken and my daughter wsa terribly upset also. We found that after a week, we were looking at the RSPCA adoptables, buying all the stuffed cat toys we saw, and ended up ringing the RSPCA to have a chat.

I asked about older animals, and they just 'happened' to have an older cat, even the lady I spoke to was surprised, as they dont' usually make it through the adoptable criteria, but by some miracle she did.

My daughter and I knew that she was the cat we were supposed to have, that our old boys memory would live on in sharing our love and home with an abandoned cat. We saw no picture of her, no description, but we knew. Our trip to the RSPCA was to pick up Millie, not to pick a cat. I cried at the cats in there but my daughter stood her ground outside Millies enclosure, in case someone else came along to grab her, even thoguh we werent' sure which one she actually was. Anyhow to cut a long story shorter than I have already rambled, we have a cat.

I once bought her a bag of vegan cat food online to try, she ate it fine, but me being really uncertain about weather I was doing the right thing, went back to RD Science diet.

Millie has been diagnosed with diabetes, and is on MD, a high protein low carb Science diet food, so I am unsure how a vegan cat food would work with her right now.

I am eager to hear others views and experiences in this matter.

[fuzzworth]

Its incredibly dangerous to impost a vegan lifestyle on a carnivorous pet. It can be deadly. Would you force a guinea pig to eat meat because you believed in eating it? Do you think it would be healthy for a pig to consume meat?

MY personal view (I’m an omnivore) is no matter what species of animal you chose to be a guardian of you need to be prepared to feed it the diet its body requires. If you are staunchly opposed to eating meat and the beef /poultry animal consumption industry then keep animals with dietary needs that don't oppose your beliefs.

Cats are obligate carnivores and require meat to live. Their bodies can only assimilate the proteins and vitamins found in animal tissues, nutrients found in vegetation can not be assimilated by a cats body they fundamentally lack enzymes to assimilate them. You can feed a canned or dry cat food but where do you think the base meat in cat food came from?... Grains and carbohydrates in a feline diet contribute to obesity and diabetes as well as allergies and other ailments .

It might be hard for some people to limit themselves to pets that fit their opinions and lifestyle and never be able to have a dog or cat or ferret or any other carnivorous or omnivorous pets but its very unhealthy and can be down right deadly to impose an improper diet on any pet.

[fuzzworth]

additionally: While i know this is a great discussion I would hope anyone participating in this site that is dedicated to the proper care and nutrition of guinea pigs would also advocate the proper research, nutrition and care that goes in to other animals as well despite your personal nutritional choices.

I very sorry to hear about the medical issues with your kitty you should check out Cat Nutrition.Org

[kathrynj]

I appreciate all you are saying Fuzzworth, hense why at this stage I am so torn about what I think of this one. I know I need to learn more, about the vegan food and cats health, hense why I am sticking with the meat diet.

While I would never force a herbivore to eat meat, I tend to think that if someone clever can work out a substitute meat free diet that includes all the neccessary vitamins minerals and essential amino acids that a cat requires, it is possible.

Again, I state this is just my musings on it, I would need to learn a lot lot more to act on it anymore than the trying the one small bag of vegan food.

Guinea Pigs in this regard are much easier for me to understand, as the meat thing really puts me off learning what I need to know about the cats diet

[i-love-nev]

Originally Posted by fuzzworth

Its incredibly dangerous to impost a vegan lifestyle on a carnivorous pet. It can be deadly. Would you force a guinea pig to eat meat because you believed in eating it? Do you think it would be healthy for a pig to consume meat?

Exactly!

[kathrynj]

Forcing a herbivore to eat meat is not possible, it contains totally the wrong balance of ingredients, however, it IS possible though I am not sure how healthy it is, to formulate a mix of ingredients that are not based on animal products, to replicate the nutritional content of meat.

I know there ARE dogs and cats that are thriving on this vegan food, so that has got to count for something.

[Jennicat]

Originally Posted by kathrynj

Forcing a herbivore to eat meat is not possible, it contains totally the wrong balance of ingredients, however, it IS possible though I am not sure how healthy it is, to formulate a mix of ingredients that are not based on animal products, to replicate the nutritional content of meat.

I know there ARE dogs and cats that are thriving on this vegan food, so that has got to count for something.

Sadly, I have gone to many houses and confiscated poor guinea pigs living in aquariums eating dog or cat food. Most common brands (ie, those found in the grocery store) have so much filler in them that pigs can survive for a time on them.

I don't know that thriving can be the only criteria for 'is it ok'. I mean, after all, look how many people come here with pigs stuck outside in hutches, having babies, eating crap food, living in tiny cages, etc, who are 'thriving'.

[daftscotslass]

Personally I don't think we should be imposing our human values on an animal that is an obligate carnivore. If people feel that they cannot feed their carnivorous pet what its body is designed to eat then perhaps it is not the pet for them.

I'm sure all human nutrition could be met in pellet form, too, but it's not a particularly attractive or enriching prospect.

[thalestral]

This is something I have been involved in countless discussions with, heh.

Firstly I think it is important for veg*ns to realise that if they feed a pet meat then what they are doing is hypocritical, supporting the life of one animal by killing countless faceless others. Just to realise this and accept it as true.

Secondly, if we choose to bring an animal into our home then it should go without saying that we are dedicating ourselves to providing the optimal care, including diet, to this animal. If we cannot bring ourselves to be personally responsible for the deaths of many other animals then we need to stick to the many herbivorous animals out there available for adoption. It is our choice.

Thirdly, we need to accept the difference between an omnivorous animal and an obligate carnivore. The latter needs meat in my opinion, and it vexes me when I see vegan cat food compared favourably with other processed meat cat food. In my opinion and from the research I have done, the best food for a cat that does not have specific medical needs is a raw meat based diet. And I have read nothing that can compare a vegan cat food favourably with a raw meat based diet.

As for the omnivorous companion animals, that status alone would not be enough for me to strike meat from their diet. It would have to be proven to me that a vegan diet compared favourably with the most optimal omnivorous diet. I have heard that this is possible with dogs but I remain unconvinced and wish to do more research. Rats on the other hand I know can positively thrive on a vegan diet. So with omnivores I feel it is not so clear cut.

Finally, and most importantly, I feel that when a veg*n is thinking of getting a pet the issue of adopting versus breeding or buying becomes even more important. To buy or breed a non-herbivorous pet here is to support the production of an animal that requires the death of many others. To me, this is the height of hypocrisy and I was utterly gobsmacked to learn other veg*ns do not feel the same way. For me personally, the only way to reconcile my beliefs that killing animals is wrong while allowing myself to care for a non-herbivorous pet is to adopt an existing animal rather than fuel the demand for more creatures that result in more death.

To explain further, I consider the cat in a shelter as a life already in existence thanks to thoughtless humans. We are responsible for the awful overpopulation of animals that results in countless animals in cages in shelters awaiting their lives to be snuffed out because we do not have enough love in the world for these animals we choose to bring to life regardless. For this cat, if it is to live, then its lifetime of meat supply is already earmarked for its consumption. No matter who adopts this animal, the meat is already going to be consumed. So if a vegan adopts this cat, they are not adding to the demand for meat any more than if someone else adopted the cat. If they buy the cat and add to the demand for more cats, this is a different story.

By virtue of being an easily adoptable animal compared to the cow or pig, the chances of the cat living rather than being killed are high. So no matter who adopts the animal the diet is the same. The very least a veg*n can do is not contribute to the demand for pet food that tests on animals and mass produced cat food and so on.

No matter how much I wish that society viewed the cow, pig and sheep the same at the moment we are not there yet. In the meantime I repeat the mantra, do not breed or buy while homeless animals die, and hope that others may reach the same conclusion that bringing life into the world for our pleasure is wrong.

[i-love-nev]

Well, either way cats need animal protein. Without they can and will die.

[thalestral]

Also, and rather tangentially, I am opposed to describing such things as "imposing" or "forcing" beliefs or views on animals. This is a phrase used a lot in discussions about vegan pet owners and the unrelated topic of veg*n children.

Anything we do pet care wise is imposing our beliefs on our animals because they have no choice in the matter at all, they are completely dependent on us. Those of us who house our guinea pigs in C&C cages are no less imposing our views on our animals than those who house the guinea pigs in hutches. Positive, negative, neutral - all our choices are imposing our beliefs on our animals. Selectively using the phrase for those beliefs we do not agree with is unfair when it is something we are all "guilty" of.

I see the issue of vegan pet owners wishing to feed pets a vegan diet more as wanting to have your cake and eat it too. We acknowledge that killing animals is wrong yet because we want to own a certain pet we make exceptions to our beliefs.


Also, perhaps people could sympathise more with the view, not necessarily agree with it but understand the thinking behind it if they pondered this hypothetical situation:

Say it was discovered that cats would be much less at risk of certain diseases and would live much longer lives it they were fed a diet based on guinea pig meat.

For veg*ns, believing that all animals are equal, I think this is a parable that perhaps demonstrates why this is much more than just "forcing" beliefs on another animal

[Feylin]

This is something I've had to think about for a long time now. My pet eats a diet that I personaly find unhealthy and actually quite gross. I firmly believe that all pets (and their humans!) should get whatever nice fresh foods are most appropriate for their needs. However, I can't do that here.

Lois, my Red Footed tortoise, is an ominivorous scavanger. Her species lives on the floor of the rainforest and literally eats anything that holds still long enough for them to get a bite. She LOVES rotten fruit and vegetables. If I give her a choice between a nice crisp kale leaf and a smashy, black, rotten pear she will devour the pear and ignore the kale. Kale is something she would like to eat normally! I know tortoises don't "run", but she comes as fast as she can when I clean out the fridge every now and then...and the smells of rotten produce come wafting out. She stands on her toes, squeaks excitedly, tries to shove me out of the way, and she'll climb right into the fridge if I let her.

She requires a small amount of protein in her diet. If she had her way, she'd get to snack on whatever is left over outside from the night's predators. When we go out side, I have to sweep for any remains of prey animals. She can smell them and makes a beeline for the remains of some poor rabbit. I had to do a lot of research and ended up following the reccomendations of the zoo where I adopted her from. Lois gets 2 or 3 pieces of high quality dog food and 2 or 3 1 oz chunks of raw (organic) chicken each month.

Decomposing protein would be ideal, but luckily I can get away with raw protein for her!

[i-love-nev]

Originally Posted by thalestral

Say it was discovered that cats would be much less at risk of certain diseases and would live much longer lives it they were fed a diet based on guinea pig meat.

I thought my friend was joking when she told me that! Lol

Originally Posted by thalestral

We acknowledge that killing animals is wrong yet because we want to own a certain pet we make exceptions to our beliefs

Exactly. I remember the one great saying "In order to love all animals, we must let some go". Wich is 100% true. Its only natural for alot of animals to hunt and eat other animals, its like this year I will be getting a hawk from a rescue centre, he has a broken wing and if it dosent heal well he may never hunt again, dosent bother me. But I will try with all my heart and get him hunting again. Not for the reason I love the sport of hunting etc but for the fact it is natural for him, he will never be able to be released into the wild so I can just try and give him the most natural life possible. I can easily supply food for him but if he has it in him to hunt, its only his instinct, I am not going to stop feeding any of my carnivore animals meat. We rescued a ferret a while back that had been fed tofu and veggies because of his owners belief, there was nothing we could do to him, the damage was done he had to be put down. Through bad experiences I wil never feed a carnivore veggies and fruit or tofu etc. JMO