Change, an update

[Fluffy_Guinea]

*laughs*

The problem is that the rescue pig is not the ONLY option. Don't you see that? When there are perfectly good animals out there dying for lack of good homes, why should anyone WANT to create more, especially if they claim to love guinea pigs so much? That is what doesn't make sense.

Great point Susan and some breeders are not so nice and are only breeding for money and those pigs live in small petstore cages, horrible pellets, no hay, dirty cages, and no veggies. Sometimes those pigs get rescued but they don't always get adopted do they? Then those poor pigs might get euthinized(sp?) and what do breeders do, they keep breeding. What about those sows in those mills who are bred over and over back to back breeding. I know your saying that not all breeders are bad but they are in a sense they are still contributing to the animal overpopulation problem.

[mini'smama]

Why did SlapMaxwell start this thread? It just seems like pot stirring self justification to me.

[Susan9608]

It just seems like pot stirring self justification to me.

Amen, sister.

[Fluffy_Guinea]

Why did SlapMaxwell start this thread? It just seems like pot stirring self justification to me.

I agree mini'smama I've been thinking that ever since I read this thread.

[Jennicat]

40%. Sounds a lot like a basic bell curve, to me. Statistically speaking, that's a likely number. A perfectly random selection of guinea pigs of the same number and care should produce the relatively the same results.

[Percy's Mom]

Originally Posted by Susan9608

Amen, sister.

Let's not bring religion into this Susan.

[Susan9608]

Let's not bring religion into this Susan.

[JennG]

I knew that this thread would really explode when I first read it. I was hesitant to express my own views because of the backlash but so be it. It really makes me feel sorry that you guys are so rigid w/ your thinking that you can't take a step back and look at what Slap is trying to get across. She's not saying that she's going to run out and breed guinea pigs. She's not friends w/ these breeders. She is just making a statement that she has seen first hand on how these animals are being treated by breeders/show people and it's not like what has been described on here.

Now, do I believe in breeding? No! My issue is that when someone like Slap who's been a long time member and has shown how caring she is w/ her piggies gets slammed by member after member when all she's stated is that there is a world outside this forum and that the people who breed aren't all that bad. And then it gets turned into comparing slavery to the guinea pig overpopulation and that's just not fair or even the same.

Now if Slap came on here and said "Breedings great and everyone should do it! And I'm going to start!" then yea, I think she deserves to be slapped. But now because she makes a point to say, "Hey, what you're learning here isn't all true." She gets slammed for an opinion that is not the "norm" on this forum. This is a good forum w/ lots of good information but God help someone who expresses a difference of opinion on here.

I really miss the days when we all had fun talking and showing off our piggies and just getting to know each other instead of watching out for or /p/s & /q/s and making sure not to use too many smilies or making sure not to sign your name at the end of a post and to make sure whatever else the 1001 rules there are to follow. Now it just has a whole other feel to it like, "It's our way or the highway." Am I right or wrong? Some will agree, others won't but that is what so great about who we are as a society.

[kathrynj]

JennG I dont' believe anyone has said, that people who breed are all bad. It is the breeding that is bad.

Slavery has been used as an illustration, not compared at all.

The thing is Slap has been around long enough to see the big picture, I just don't get it.

Slap says she doesn't support breeders but she is defending them. Why?

[Mommy Of One]

I am stunned.
I mean, come on!
You can't blame ignorance but you can blame ignorance to facts,
Which is exactly how you sound!
Just letting you know, you are certainly ain't fooling me!
So you came into contact with a few 'good' breeders..
Think of what they promote. I see kids everyday begin breeding because of the influence of other breeders. And let's not foget the reason that adults give aas an excuse for breeding their pets, 'I wanted my child to expierience life and joy'. Bull.. You know how many piggy's are put down everyday because some people would rather go to a breeder instead of a rescue just because it is easier. And obviously that is why breeders don't make a big deal even if they are giving their pig to a criminal. They don't care what is best for the animal, just how much money they can make off of 'beauty'.

[CavySpirit]

Cry me a river, Jenn. Slap knew exactly what she was doing when she started this thread and wanted it that way.

And then it gets turned into comparing slavery to the guinea pig overpopulation and that's just not fair or even the same.

Honestly, aren't you even reading the posts? How can you expect us to intelligently argue/debate with you when DESPITE people repeatedly explaining in simple terms--to those who can't quite grasp the concept--the analogy about the slavery comment, you STILL don't get it. It's like you refuse to turn on your brain. Either that, or you just love making up cheap shots that SEEM to support your position, but in fact, don't.

And we know exactly what Slap is 'trying' to say. She didn't try to say it. She said it.

It is such a childish notion that people in the pro-breeder camp think that we think breeders are bad people. That's laughable. The vast majority of breeders are just wonderful people, I'm quite sure of it. Truly. Just like I know the vast majority of meat eaters are wonderful people. Who cares and so what? What that has to do with the price of tea in China is beyond me. It's not about the person, it's about the actions, the behavior and the results and ramifications of those actions and behaviors.

[Ragous]

I don't think she is suporting breeders....she is just saying that it isn't as bad as it was put out to be.

I agree with JennG, I first signed up on this forum to post about my girls and share pictures. Also to get advice, but now whenever I post I recieve 0 or maybe 1 to 2 replies because everybody is always so busy with the heated topics. My last post I was asking for help with dosing my girls with Ivermectin, 33 people (last time I checked ) viewed my post and only 1 replied. I never got the help that I needed and I felt lost with dosing them. I am still hoping I that I dosed them right!

I think the forum has lost sight to what it was meant for....and I haven't been here for that long.

[CavySpirit]

Slap, I've got more to say, and will say it later, but I've got to get some work done. I could have made a couple of bucks and could have saved you some money and time if I had sold you a pair of rose-colored glasses a while ago. We'd be in the same place we are now and both of us richer.

[kathrynj]

Ragous you were given the link to GL dosing here http://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/...vermectin.html

That is the most comprehensive site for medications. I felt no need to add to that.

[Susan9608]

I think the forum has lost site to what it was meant for....and I haven't been here for that long.

If you haven't been here that long, then I'd argue that you can't really even know what the site is "meant for."

If you need urgent medical advice, then the best place to go is to: Guinea Lynx :: Forum - Emergency and Medical Forum. It would be nice if you could be guaranteed responses to your posts, but that's simply not possible. I seriously doubt that the reason no one responded is because people were too busy with the "hot" topics. Rather, it's more likely that the people reading at the time weren't sure of the answer.

And for the record, the slavery thing was an analogy - "form of reasoning in which one thing is inferred to be similar to another thing in a certain respect, on the basis of the known similarity between the things in other respects." Jenn, I feel quite certain I've used that particular analogy before and have never, ever heard from you about it being unfair. Interesting, to say the least.

[CavySpirit]

Originally Posted by Ragous

I don't think she is suporting breeders....she is just saying that it isn't as bad as it was put out to be.

I agree with JennG, I first signed up on this forum to post about my girls and share pictures. Also to get advice, but now whenever I post I recieve 0 or maybe 1 to 2 replies because everybody is always so busy with the heated topics. My last post I was asking for help with dosing my girls with Ivermectin, 33 people (last time I checked ) viewed my post and only 1 replied. I never got the help that I needed and I felt lost with dosing them. I am still hoping I that I dosed them right!

I think the forum has lost sight to what it was meant for....and I haven't been here for that long.

The links on where to go for medical advice are in many places on the site/forum. Here is the ivermectin info: Guinea Lynx :: Ivermectin Treatment Guidelines

And no, I can tell you unequivocally, this site has not lost sight of what it is meant for.


And as an aside, "asses" is two donkeys. The correct spelling of the word is 'assess' for those who are using it. It reads very strangely when not spelled properly.

[JennG]

Unfortunately or fortunately, I must sign off to take care of my other babies. It really doesn't matter what anyone says because if you don't agree w/ the forum than you will not get anywhere. I am thinking and I am offended, analogy or not, w/ the whole comparison to slavery and GPs. I must now sign off to have a life.

[Jennicat]

I don't see why you need to make backhanded slaps about people not having lives when you don't have the time, inclination, initiative, or even presence of mind to respond. Posting to a forum has little to nothing to do with "having a life".

[Susan9608]

I am thinking and I am offended, analogy or not, w/ the whole comparison to slavery and GPs.

You're offended by the notion that some Americans once said legal slavery in America will never end? Yeah, I can see that; I find it offensive, too. But fortunately, there were enough people interested in social justice and willing to fight for the cause that this is no longer the case. Slavery is no longer legal in the US.

No one said ANYTHING comparing guinea pigs to slavery ANYWHERE in this thread. What was said (and I ought to know, as I'm the one who said it) is that some people once said that slavery in America would never end. They were wrong. So the possibility exists that breeding non human animals may end as well, making all those defeatists out there who say, "Oh breeding will always happen," wrong as well. (in other words, just because one person makes the claim that something will *always* happen doesn't make it so.)

Why is this so difficult? I think you're being deliberately obtuse about the issue just to have a point to pick at. And that's fine, I suppose, but as CavySpirit said, it looks like you're not turning your brain on.

[CavySpirit]

JennG, first of all, I don't know where you expect to "get" on a forum with a strong position if you hold the opposite position. I don't care what forum it is.

Secondly, you're insulted? Well, I'm sick of wasting my time with people who seem to be clueless on understanding basic concepts and put words and meanings in people's mouths that just aren't there. Let's go back and pick this apart. How the heck are you in any way 'offended' by this concept of Susan's:

I didn't say anything about slavery being the same as or comparable to guinea pigs. What I said was that people used to say that slavery would always exist, the same way you're claiming that breeders will always exist. My point was that those people claiming slavery (*ahem* legalized slavery) were wrong. The people who claimed that women would never have the right to vote were wrong. The people who claimed that legally using child labor would always be a practice were wrong. So there is the potential that YOU are also wrong in that breeding will always exist.

There are a lot of people working to end the practice of breeding guinea pigs; I believe one day they'll prevail.