Inside Petco...

[wheeky-UK]

Being in the UK it is quite difficult to comment, however i can i suppose compare. I have a confession to make and its that i work at a Pets At Home store, the largest pet retail store in the UK. I started there quite a while ago and cant leave yet because of the old money problem. it does however give me an opportunity to see inside and see how it all runs.

By the looks of it Pets At Home, as far as animal care and education is concerned is much better here. I have been to many of these stores across the county and most ( i say most) have the same good standard of care and education. We have a pet manager that goes around all the stores in their area to see how everything looks and asks questions and suggests alternatives etc and works very well.

So my point is that In the UK i believe the main problem is in our breeders. Our breeder supplies all our animals and guinea pigs im afraid to say usually come our way with the most problems. The big culprit being ringworm (highly contageous). Once in our care we treat them and then adopt them. It takes a while for them to get better, so become quite big when cured, so we adopt them.

This seems to be the way Pets At Home is going, with more and more stores having these "support adoption" centres. I personally do alot of money raising events in the store for this charity

I agree completly that pet stores should not sell animals. I dont doubt the abilities of the staff members who work at Pets At Home, it the breeders that i complain about. Too many of our animals come to us already ill in some way and its up to us to cure them (with good success rate).

With the UK being a big "cushion state", and a bit of a push over to be completly honest (hehe), it does mean that animal welfare is taken quite seriously. We wouldnt be able to get away with poor animal care because we have so many people come check up on us its unbelievable. Im of course not talking about all the stores, unfortunatly there are always stores that slip through the net, but i have never seen anything as bad as iv heard from petco etc.

Pets At Home would be a wonderful shop if it moves completly to Adoption. Staff members sit exams and do animal care courses, also we are now beginning to be sent much bigger cages.

So going in the right direction at least.

[mommyoffive]

Originally Posted by Susan9608

By working there, no matter how much good information you give out and no matter what great conditions you achieve for the pigs in *your* store, by working there, you still send the message to everyone who comes through those doors that what goes on there - that is, selling animals - is okay with you.

I know its not ok, but I know there's nothing I can do about it. I think we have been through this before. I simply have no faith in myself so i'm trying to make the best out of the current situation.

And not to be nasty, but I have to ask ... do you do the same thing for the rats? The mice? The hamsters? The birds? The fish? How can you advocate for one species of animal and leave the rest to suffer out their miserable existence in the store? What happens when the pet store gets some chinchillas/cockatiels who need the cage you've procured for the guinea pigs? Do the pigs get shoved back into the aquariums? Or do the chinchillas/birds now have to suffer because the pigs have an advocate where the others don't?

Yes...we all (petcare associates) take care of all of our animals. One guy is a fish expert (actually he's fish crazy) so we learned from him how to take care of fish and more. There's 2 girls and 1 manager who love and have birds so we learned from them how to take care of birds, and as for the small pets...thats my expert area. Not only the guinea pigs, but the mice, the hamster, the rats...I like to research. And were no longer carrying chinchillas or cockatiels...so its the guinea pigs habitat from now on.

[crazywiggy]

Susan I have to disagree with you here....

I know you believe you're helping and doing a good thing by working there, and perhaps you are, at least, for the few animals that you come in contact with. But in the grand scheme of things, you just enable the pet stores to keep doing what they're doing. If they had a mass strike of employees or had a hiring shortage and couldn't hire people because of the fact that they sell living animals in their stores, they'd either have to shut down the store or quit selling animals all together.

It may only be a few animals in a single store but it matters to them! Like the boy and the starfish. Whether or not it helps the bigger picture is irrelevant, it helps some and that is better than nothing.

Now I do understand the "bigger picture". In terms of the customer I agree that "saving" one piggie from life in a pet store does more harm than good. Buying pet store pets supports the industry.

But working for them doesn't!
The customer can have a massive impact because they are the ones bringing money to the store. The employees cost them money.

Consider it this way. Not everyone is pro animal welfare and rights. A lot of people are simply not interested in animals at all. As far as customers go, we already know they have some feelings for animals otherwise they wouldn't be in a pet store. It should therefore be possible to convince enough customers to boycott the store and make a difference, because they all have that in common.
But not everyone is pro welfare or rights. A lot of people just aren't interested in this whole issue. If the people who give a damn stop working in pet stores the store won't close... they'll just employ some of the thousands of other people looking for job who don't care.

If people like mommyoffive, momof2pigs and wheeky quit their jobs they would be doing nothing to help pet store pigs. By staying they can make a difference - maybe just to a few, maybe to many more.

For example; if one employee can spread the word that wheels are bad for pigs they may be able to put people off buying them in their store. Then maybe the managers will tell the people at the top that wheels just aren't selling anymore, so they may decide to stop stocking them. Good ideas can spread and improvements can be made - but it takes people on the inside to make that difference.

I think we all agree that pet stores should stop selling animals... but until that happens I feel it is far better that these animals are looked after by knowledgable people who care enough to make a difference.

[Susan9608]

Again, pet stores that have employees who are truly experienced with and knowledgeable about guinea pigs are few and far between. Those employees who are experienced and knowledgeable are able to help the select *few* pigs who come across their store. To me, helping the masses is better than helping a few. Yeah, yeah, it's great to help the few, but really, where does it get you? No where. Since working for a pet store and selling off the animals to virtually anyone who plunks down the money is, in essence, condoning the sale of live animals, what really gets accomplished? Not much. Pet stores have no authority to check up on the animals they sell, unlike a rescue or shelter, so there's no way to verify whether or not the animals sold are getting the proper care. So while they may get moderately good care while temporarily in the store, who knows if they are going to truly to benefit from all that experience in the long run?

In the starfish story, didn't the little girl throwing the starfish back end up inspiring others to do the same until all the starfish were saved? I seem to remember that being the end of the story. So if enough people are educated on the plight of pet store animals, perhaps enough people will quit buying animals from stores OR enough people will quit being willing to work for stores that sell animals so that the pet stores will either have to stop selling animals or go out of business.

[wheeky-UK]

"Yeah, yeah, it's great to help the few, but really, where does it get you? No where"

I beg to differ on that. A few people can make a big difference. Many ideas we suggest have gone to head office and is now used in all stores.

Just because you start small does not mean it wont end up being big. These pet stores will not just disappear overnight, it will take time and effort.

Yes it can feel like a wasted effort if you are just helping animals in a few stores, but to say it gets you nowhere sounds a little defeatist. If you want something to happen bad enough it will eventually happen, just not straight away and to know there are some people out there who do care and inform people correctly, is a great comfort.

No-one here wants pet stores to sell animals, but they do, and we need to make the best of it. Wether it be just at store level or a fully fledged protest.

[Susan9608]

No-one here wants pet stores to sell animals, but they do, and we need to make the best of it.

See, to me, *your* statement is the defeatist one. Instead of just blinding accepting the fact that pet stores sell animals and that we need to "make the best of it" why not extend every effort to STOP the sale of animals in the stores? One avenue towards doing so is to, of course, educate consumers on the overpopulation and problems with pet store animals. That's just ONE avenue towards ending the problem. Another avenue could be for the pet store employees to realize that the sale of animals is not okay and to conduct their own boycott ... by refusing to work there. Granted, I realize this is not something that will or can happen overnight - pet store employees need to be educated (just like everyone else) on *why* selling animals isn't a good idea and they'll all need to find other jobs. But, if a pet store can't keep employees and/or can't hire employees and if everyone specifies that the reason why they won't work there is because of the sale of animals in the store, then the stores will either go out of business (because no one can stay in business without any employees) or will stop the sale of live animals.

A few people can make a big difference.

I agree with that statement. I think you misunderstood my point; I'd encourage you to go re-read my post. What I was saying is that yeah, it's great if a pet store employee is well educated on guinea pigs and makes the effort to implement correct care for the animals in that particular employee's store. But who does that help? It only helps the very few animals that particular employee comes in contact with. And it only helps for a finite amount of time, since generally the animals in pet stores don't live out their lives there. Once an animal is sold (again, to virtually anyone willing to plunk down the money), a pet store has no authority to follow up and ensure that proper care is given. Rescues and shelters, however, generally have a contact giving them the authority to follow up on the animals adopted.

So again, let me reiterate the point that while a very knowledgeable pet store employee can improve the conditions for the animals in his/her store, for the GREATER GOOD of ALL animals being sold, I think it would be better for people to refuse to work there ... Petco, Petsmart, whichever store it may be.

[wheeky-UK]

I agree with you completly with that, but like I said before I am unable to leave at the moment. Its just a sad fact that when I leave I will be replaced by someone else, probably a lot less knowledgeable.

I love the idea of boycotting and refusing to work there. But I really dont think thats going to make any impact because there are lots of people out there who will fill in. Thats what I mean when I say it doesnt happen overnight, just leaving isnt going to do anything (plus i will be out of work heh) while I am there though I can make a difference, and changes are being made here in the UK at least.

I am just being realistic when i say we have to make the best of it. These companys are not just going to say "oh ok sorry" and then close. The greater good for all animals will take time, i know emotions run high but I dont think that by just ignoring them and by not buying their stuff is enough, because there are a lot of people out there who do not see the way we do, and never will, sad but true.

[daftscotslass]

With Pets at Home I really don't blame it on the breeders, I blame it on the store. They are the ones selling animals, they are the ones creating demand.

I pointed out that a male rabbit was jumping between the pens. The member of staff laughed and said "he always does that".

They can't guarantee the sex of livestock. Why not? Jarbax's 13 year old son can pick up a pig and tell if it's male or female.

They consistently sell animals with mites and fungal problems. They are NOT treated before leaving the store which is ILLEGAL.

My friend unwittingly bought two "females" only to have one drop dead a month later due to presumed toxaemia. The other "female" was, naturally, male. Her concerns were met with a shrug, a refund and a voucher.

One of my local stores sells satin guinea pigs and has no idea of the problems they face.

"Support adoption" is utter nonsense. In my local store they had signs up on the rabbit adoption pens stating "I got too old to be sold in the Bunny Village". A week later the same rabbits had signs stating "My owner didn't want me any more". Blatent lies to tug at the customer's heartstrings. The pig I took on from the adoption area had a litter of babies having come into the store pregnant (again they said from an "owner". I presume this was the breeder). Did they adopt the babies out? No, they refused to let me take the litter off their hands and instead they sold them with the rest of the sale "stock" to make a pretty penny. All the "support adoption" section is doing is to solve their problem of how to deal with the returned "stock".

When they stop selling animals, they'll get a big pat on the back from me.

[salana]

Hey, I work in a supermarket bakery. Maybe instead of "selling" our marked-down day-old bread, we should urge people to "adopt" it.

[daftscotslass]

Do you think someone would like to adopt the wet newspaper from the guinea pigs' cage? It's just... they don't want it any more.

[wheeky-UK]

I suppose im in the same boat as mummyoffive, we obviously work in one of the better stores in the companys we work for. It made me very sad to hear what you said daftscotslass, i am not supporting Pets At Home at all, but at least they are moving forward.

[JarBax]

Originally Posted by wheeky-UK

i am not supporting Pets At Home at all

But in choosing to work there, you are! There are other places you could work where your love of animals would be appreciated, and animals aren't being exploited.

[salana]

Originally Posted by daftscotslass

Do you think someone would like to adopt the wet newspaper from the guinea pigs' cage? It's just... they don't want it any more.

Jackie is a Carefresh hoarder. He keeps it in his cramped, filthy butt and it's covered with poop. He doesn't want to rehome it--can anyone help me rescue it?

[wheeky-UK]

*sigh* i have said before there are reasons at the moment why I cant leave. Does no-one see the points I have made? Just leaving isnt going to do anything.

[salana]

Hey, wheeky, I understand. I feel kind of stuck in my job too. They don't give me health insurance, they underpay me, they overwork me. But I put in a bunch of applications for retail stores and I got callbacks for another grocery store and an electronics store. Retail skills are generally transferable between different industries. I know a lot about receiving in the supermarket industry, and Best Buy is willing to interview me to receive in the electronics industry.

You're not trapped in the pet store industry forever.

[daftscotslass]

They aren't moving in the right direction. It's not adoption - there's no home or even a basic knowledge check. Tell me WHY they move them to adoption when they're big. Oh, wait, I know, it's to make room for more wee ones and get rid of the unsellables, making a pretty penny in the process.

Can you tell me where the adoption fee goes to? This Pets at Home trust or whatever it's called? The manager in my local one couldn't.

They've seperated rabbits and guinea pigs now - wow. You know why? Not because they care but because it's now the LAW!

[JarBax]

Originally Posted by wheeky-UK

*sigh* i have said before there are reasons at the moment why I cant leave. Does no-one see the points I have made? Just leaving isnt going to do anything.

Wasn't getting at you. I do see a lot of the points you have made, and understand that you are making a difference to the lives of the pets in your shop while they are there. I am in a ridiculously low paid, stressful, under valued job where I am making a difference to a few kids out of a school of hundreds, but I thoroughly enjoy it (most days!) I know that changing jobs isn't 'that' easy and that life is never easy! I do understand.

Whilst just leaving isn't perhaps going to do anything in the great scheme of the company, it will free up a wonderfully compassionate person to make a real difference without supporting a company with no ethical values.

[wheeky-UK]

Thanks Jarbax, Salana. i was beginning to feel very bullied for a while there

As for daftscotslass, I set up a charity fund raising event in the store not that long ago. We raised £210 for the "support adoption" charity. This charity involves all the local rescue centres, in particular Janes Rabbit Rescue close to our store. The money goes to these local rescues, not back to the company. So like i said they are moving in the right direction.

As for work I am hoping to make a living publishing books, and I have a good foot hold in the Bradt Travel Guides, which I wrote the natural history chapter on Madagascar (which i have been to a few times now), the biodiversity is amazing there. So fingers crossed i can for the moment try and make a difference where I am, then move on.

[Susan9608]

The money goes to these local rescues, not back to the company. So like i said they are moving in the right direction.

Nope, they're not movinb in the right direction. It's extremely hypocritical to have a "support adoption" fundraising event when they have animals for sale right there in the store. When they stop selling animals in their stores and ONLY support adoption, then they'll be making a step in the right direction. And when they stop selling crappy supplies and ONLY support adoption, then I'll go out on a limb and say they're doing a good job.

Just leaving isnt going to do anything.

It will if you tell the higher ups in the company exactly *why* you left their employ. If you state in your resignation letter that you can no longer be a part of the sale of living, sentient beings and that you are going to dedicate your efforts to trying to convince others to feel and do the same, then you're doing something. Something better than what you're doing ... which is sitting by, watching animals be sold.

Did anyone say you're not doing a good job? No one is disagreeing that you do a good job for the particular animals you have access to. But you're failing to see the bigger picture ... or maybe you're not failing to see it, but for some reason, you're still insisting on defending working in the pet store as some major accomplishment for the animals.

Frankly, I can't see you're accomplishing anything except helping the store sell their animals and their products.

If that's okay with you, then that's great. You like your job, you feel you're doing a good job, then fine. Far be it from me - or anyone, really - to disagree with that. But you (and by you, I mean all of the pet-stores-that-sell-animals employees) seem to be forgetting is that this is an ANTI-PET STORE forum. This forum supports adoption and rescue. Period. It is in that mind set, then, that people are telling you that working for a pet store that sells animals is going against the adoption/rescue philosophy and is just enabling the store to keep doing what it's doing. If you disagree, that's fine, but I'm afraid you won't find too much support for your job here.

[Calliso]

Originally Posted by JarBax

But in choosing to work there, you are! There are other places you could work where your love of animals would be appreciated, and animals aren't being exploited.

The problem with many jobs is you can;t just walk off them..at least not until you have found a equal or better paying job. And many people live in areas where they are lucky to have the jobs they do have.