Inside Petco...

[wickedrodent]

Its not just that one petco. I have one that is as horrible, if not worse.

The guinea pigs have no hay at all. They are fed a seed mix, and have drops in their water. Mix sexes are also kept together.

Unfortunatly, the mice, rats, and hamsters are 10x worse.

No water at all, and very little food. Their cages are falling apart, and they are cramped so close together, they were actually on top of eachother. Most were kept on pine. When I had the man open the door, the metal part fell off and the rats all tried to esacpe. One did, and he didn't even chase after it.

The employees at mine are very neglectful. I have reported the store many times, nothing has been done.

My petsmart, on the other hand, is spotless all the time. Their cages are tiny, but at least they always have hay and clear water. They always look healthy. Mine only carry one gender. Usually males.

I do not condone buying from petstores. In fact, I am totally against it, but petsmart has always been the better of the two. Here at least.

Is it true petsmart doesn't sell mice and rats as snake food? I heard that before and have wondered ever since.

[momof2pigs]

Originally Posted by wickedrodent

Its not just that one petco. I have one that is as horrible, if not worse.

The guinea pigs have no hay at all. They are fed a seed mix, and have drops in their water. Mix sexes are also kept together.

Unfortunatly, the mice, rats, and hamsters are 10x worse.

No water at all, and very little food. Their cages are falling apart, and they are cramped so close together, they were actually on top of eachother. Most were kept on pine. When I had the man open the door, the metal part fell off and the rats all tried to esacpe. One did, and he didn't even chase after it.

The employees at mine are very neglectful. I have reported the store many times, nothing has been done.

My petsmart, on the other hand, is spotless all the time. Their cages are tiny, but at least they always have hay and clear water. They always look healthy. Mine only carry one gender. Usually males.

I do not condone buying from petstores. In fact, I am totally against it, but petsmart has always been the better of the two. Here at least.

Is it true petsmart doesn't sell mice and rats as snake food? I heard that before and have wondered ever since.

Again, unless Petco's standards are THAT lax in other parts of the country, EVERY Petco I've been to in the midwest has been up to code. The animals are NEVER,EVER 'without water' *UNLESS* it is cage cleaning day and the associates are in the middle of cleaning their cages. ONLY THEN, will the animals be without water (maybe 1/2 an hour tops) because we take their water bottles and disinfect them. For an employee to not go after a loose animal?? I find that hard to believe as well.


Now, the last part about the rats/mice as snake food bugs the heck out of me as a responsible snake owner.

I have ONE hatchling cornsnake that REFUSES (and almost starved himself to death) to eat F/T pinkies. The ONLY thing he will eat without me force-feeding, is Anole lizards. (They are the baby cornsnakes natural prey in the wild). He refuses pinkies. I have tried every trick in the book to get him to eat to no avail. If pet-stores really cared equally about ALL animals, why not understand that SOME snake owners MUST feed live or different prey then mice because the snake won't take food any other way?? Finding live pinky mice is almost impossible where I live. It's as if snake owners are completely left out in the caring attitude that pet-stores have. My snake will starve to death if he doesn't get force-fed by me OR fed what he prefers, (live anoles). I have been trying diligently to convert him to F/T pinkies but he is stubborn and it isn't going very well.

I've kept this little guy alive for three months first through force-feeding pinkies (a very stressful process) and then allowing him to eat anoles (which he takes willingly on his own).

Yes, Petsmart *discourages* feeding mice/rats to snakes by charging almost $10 for one. Petco's are around $2-$4.

[John4216]

I am curious how you answer to this link? Petco is involved and in fact if you read the second link you will see were they where fined and much much more:

Here is just a brief blurb from it:

The City alleged in its suit that animals were put to death in the freezer, that ill animals suffered and even died without veterinary care, that animal cages were littered with feces, and that animals were housed in overcrowded and improperly equipped cages. The City resorted to the filing of a civil suit because animal cruelty laws are ineffectual when applied to pet stores.

Ultimately, the suit was successful. Fines of $50,000 were assessed against Petco and the court issued an injunction.


Petco and PIJAC argued vehemently that they should not be required to provide veterinary care for sick or injured animals.

Petco and PIJAC argued against the humane euthanasia requirement in AB 2862 because they specifically want to be able to continue placing live animals in freezers as a method of killing them

Little Shops of Sorrows: Quick Facts

Article - All the Way to the Governor’s Desk


Article - Pet Shops: Merchants of Misery


So after, hopefully, reading the entire article on the second link what do you have to say?? Petco is awful and I wish someone would make a Anti Petco commercial showing how they wish to freeze to death the animals they supposedly care so much about.

[thalestral]

Pet shops that sell animals are all awful regardless of standards of care in any particular store. I don't really see the point in having a big petco versus petsmart argument over which is worse (on a rescue forum of all places!) when in the eyes of many they are both as bad as each other.

I think people also need to remember that many dislike/hate the stores, not the employees. Everyone needs to earn a living, but getting defensive over a chain of stores based on your own particular shop makes it look like you support the company.

Both are bad, end of story. In my opinion anyway.

[crazywiggy]

I have to agree with Thalestral - all pet shops that sell animals are bad, no matter how the animals are kept. At the end of the day they all suport breeding and death.

I have no problem with people working at pet stores in general. I believe that for as long as pet stores sell animals, it is better to have employees who are knowledgable and care about animals. Such people can improve animal welfare (by improving standards of care within the store, giving accurate advice, turning down unsuitable owners etc). I think you guys do a worthwhile job helping the animals unfortunate enough to be in this situation.

But I don't think it is fair to defend the store itself, when they still sell animals and crappy unsafe products.

Hope that makes sense.

[aloren]

Originally Posted by thalestral

Both are bad, end of story. In my opinion anyway.

Exactly! Thank you.
At the end of the day, there is no lesser of 2 evils when pet stores are concerned. If they sell any animal, from a betta fish to an elephant, they are making profits off of living breathing animals with feelings. So what if the cages are 'thouroughly' cleaned out? Wow, they get veggies at that store! They are taken out and socialized at this store. They are still overbreeding and torturing animals while making a profit off of them. Sickening and disgusting! From the smallest Mom and Pop pet store to PetsMart or Petco!

[mommyoffive]

Well I dunno if anyone read it before but I did turn in this Petco to the Humane Society...they said they will "look into it"...honestly I hardley doubt it though...is there anyone else that I cannot report their conditions to?

As for all petstores being bad...i've got to agree on that one. Yes my pet care dept. is in excelent condition now, but the fact remains that we still sell pets, we still deal with rainbow. ugh...there's really no easy medium for me!

[John4216]

Originally Posted by mommyoffive

is there anyone else that I cannot report their conditions to?

Yes there is. Please contact the folks at the site/links I posted earlier and they should be able to help.

[mommyoffive]

Originally Posted by momof2pigs

Just like you, when I posted on these forums months ago, I told people I was trying to make a difference by educating customers and employees alike. That didn't fly and I STILL got criticized for merely working for and mentioning Petco (how dare I) on a RESCUE forum. So I stopped trying to tell everyone here that I (like you) make a small difference, and I (like you) ensure the GP's at my Petco get quality care and I (like you) give my customers this website and Guinealynx website. You know what the mods on here said?? "It doesn't matter because you are still working for a company that SELLS animals from a mill". I'm just suprised they didn't give you the same lecture and cold shoulder. I basically was told all my efforts were in vain and that I would be better to look for a job in a shelter (yeah, they don't pay at all).

Really I have been told that...what I have been doing is "not enough." I don't let it get to me though, I know in my heart, that while these animals are in my care, they will be well taken care of. And that customers will get the right knowledge.

I am not sure what a RVT is, but as a C.A.S I have SOME control and authority, but when I am not there, the associates do as they please. We have one team lead who is so stubborn and think she knows everything and when she sells a GP, she sells the smallest cage/kit and sells vit C drops as well. You don't have people like that at your Petsmart??

Registered Vet Tech. Thats sad that your lead is horrible know-it-all...I cant stand people like that, but its hard to change stubborn people. We had one guy that was like that...always following "procedure" but since i'm pet care lead and he was just a pet care associate I got to set him right especially when he didn't report a sick hamster to me or my manager so he just put it in the sick room and made a pet treatment chart. We could have taken it to the vet and because of his stupidity it died over night. He's good now along with the other associates. We do not following some of the policy because its just wrong. For example...viatamin c drops, were suppost to add them to all guinea pig water bottles...we dont even order viatamin c dops! As well as the policy that were suppost to give the guinea's oranges everyday! Way to much sugar, rather then get romaine lettuce, zuccinini, etc.

I guess I am more bitter at the comments and judgement on here from the mods/owner of the site when I am basically in the same shoes as you are. I also got told: "What is worse is that you KNOW BETTER" and you still work for a company that sells animals." Did they not say those things to you at one point?

Yes, I did get told that...but I do know better and so do you.

I'm glad the animals at your Petsmart have you to look out for them.

As am I with you. There's some good associates out there!

[mommyoffive]

Originally Posted by John4216

Yes there is. Please contact the folks at the site/links I posted earlier and they should be able to help.

Woops, I didnt even see that...thanks!

[momof2pigs]

Most, if not all of the allegations contained in those articles are from YEARS ago. Petco has since worked with groups like Peta to correct those problems. I can tell you that we were told if ANY employee is caught freezing ANYTHING before it's last gasp, we are terminated on the spot. The only animals that go in our freezers are the ones that no longer have a heartbeat. Then only an authorized disposal company is allowed to take the dead animals away. We are not allowed to medicate without vet instructions either. All employees go through training classes and stores are routinely inspected for problems/negligence related to animal care. As I mentioned before, if any Petco around here isn't up to the high company standards, we get written up and penalized for it.

Yes, again, years ago, Petco was guilty of the things the article mentioned.

[John4216]

Originally Posted by momof2pigs

Most, if not all of the allegations contained in those articles are from YEARS ago.

Umm I think you should check again. That investigation was in 2005. And the legislation they fought was after that. All you can say about Petco is what happens at YOUR store.

[momof2pigs]

Originally Posted by John4216

Umm I think you should check again. That investigation was in 2005. And the legislation they fought was after that. All you can say about Petco is what happens at YOUR store.

Ultimately, the suit was successful. Fines of $50,000 were assessed against Petco and the court issued an injunction. Now, six years after the City first began citing Petco for problems, the injunction expired as conditions at the stores have improved.

It looks like this was an on-going process that began six years ago but now Petco's conditions in (those) stores have improved.


I'm not saying that animals at Petcos NEVER suffer or die. They do. However, they suffer worse in the wild (I know these aren't wild animals), they suffer in homes, they can suffer and die at the breeders (small or large scale). Animals get sick. Rescues that take in cats and overcrowd them, wind up with huge outbreaks of all kinds of diseases and URI's.

For animal rights groups to expect pet-stores to never, ever have an animal get sick (not even one) is extremely unrealistic. It's the care they recieve IF/when they get sick that counts. Sometimes when our hamsters have a particulary rough time with wet-tail and we know they are going downhill in spite of treatment, we bring them to a vet to have them humanely euthanized. That's how much Petco cares. $50.00 spent on one hamster (or mouse, or anole, or whatever) to spare it from suffering further. That hamster cost Petco what? $1.00? That's why Petco is so anal about having initialed Wellness cards and incident reports attached to each and every cage in the back. Document, document, document!!!

Hell, people get sick and die. IT's a fact of life. I cannot speak for EVERY PETCO, but whenever our animals even have a cough or sniffle a vet is consulted IMMEDIATELY and the animals are removed to the back for treatment until they are well.

[Susan9608]

For animal rights groups to expect pet-stores to never, ever have an animal get sick (not even one) is extremely unrealistic.

I don't think it's unrealistic at all. In fact, there's a very simple solution to prevent there from EVER being a sick animal at Petco.

I'm sure you've guessed the answer ...

DON'T SELL ANIMALS!

If you don't sell any animals, then there won't be any in the store to get sick.

[momof2pigs]

Also, I didn't mean to imply that's it's O.K to have animals suffer needlessly, but rather that it is a fact that people and animals (domestic and wild) suffer and get sick. It is our compassion that helps them.

Yes, I wish they wouldn't really (sell pets). Also I read more closely the opposition Petco SUPPOSEDLY took against those animal welfare bills. I am kind of shocked really. I had no idea that Petco didn't want certain bills passed so they could basically do as they pleased at the animal's expense. So I guess than, I have the bills to thank for Petco's overall compliance with animal care standards. As I said, even though we get sick/dying animals in our store, they get prompt treatment. Some of that stuff really suprised me. They wanted to put 150+ mice in our cages?? I can't stand to see the 36 limit in each cage.


I am currently looking for new employement. Our new manager (via our RCAC's request I'm sure) is now ordering full limits on all of our animal cages. For almost a year, our Operations Manager kept the cages at a MINIMUM and the animals were thriving. Now we have fighting finches, canaries, hermit crabs, gerbils, and hamsters. Our cages get dirtier quicker and it is that much more work on me to keep the cages spotless for the public, meanwhile our animals are fighting for their bit of space and our wellness room will always be full because of this. It didn't used to be this way.

Has anybody worked for Pet Supplies Plus (a franchise). They don't sell pets (maybe fish). I have heard they don't pay well though.

[salana]

Originally Posted by momof2pigs

I am currently looking for new employement. Our new manager (via our RCAC's request I'm sure) is now ordering full limits on all of our animal cages. For almost a year, our Operations Manager kept the cages at a MINIMUM and the animals were thriving. Now we have fighting finches, canaries, hermit crabs, gerbils, and hamsters. Our cages get dirtier quicker and it is that much more work on me to keep the cages spotless for the public, meanwhile our animals are fighting for their bit of space and our wellness room will always be full because of this. It didn't used to be this way.

But you see--this is the way of the pet store. If they can sell (or think they can sell) 36 mice in a week, they will bring in 36 mice every week.

I agree with Susan--the only way to prevent this from happening is not to sell animals, and not to support stores that do.

[John4216]

Originally Posted by momof2pigs

It looks like this was an on-going process that began six years ago but now Petco's conditions in (those) stores have improved.

You are trying to mix 2 seperate things. The Lawsuit was for one city where as the investigation was for over 60 stores in various cities and they were done at different times.

And honestly it shows how much Petco fought against doing the right thing, to the point that they had to be sued and lose in court to make things right and that was just in one city!!!. It shows the companies true intentions and mindset. Look at what they argued about:

Petco and PIJAC argued vehemently that they should not be required to provide veterinary care for sick or injured animals.

Petco and PIJAC argued against the humane euthanasia requirement in AB 2862 because they specifically want to be able to continue placing live animals in freezers as a method of killing them.

And Petco and PIJAC argued vociferously against the provisions which would have ensured adequate cage space for the animals. Instead, they countered with cage size standards that would only have codified cruelty, including one proposal that would have allowed 156 mice in a single cage.

Sorry but this clearly shows where the companies true intentions lie. I wonder why you feel compelled to defend them. It is the company that is doing things wrong, not you so why the need to try to defend them?

The investigation shows that Petco and other petstores still have the problems in 2005. And EVERY single petstore I have been in in my area, and that includes Petco, is awful.

[PiggieMamaKelly]

I tend to notice that PetCo seems worse than PetSmart. But the difference is trivial when you consider the larger picture. This whole back and forth about which store is better sounds to me like argueing about which day is a better day for killing people on, Thursday or Saturday. How about neither!!!

And I agree with what has been said about PetCo and PetSmart employees, I have nothing against them personally. I think a large number of them care deeping about the animals, but unfortunately they are often powerless.

[mommyoffive]

Originally Posted by PiggieMamaKelly

And I agree with what has been said about PetCo and PetSmart employees, I have nothing against them personally. I think a large number of them care deeping about the animals, but unfortunately they are often powerless.

Honestly thats what I feel like I am. I do so much to take care of our animals, often I collaspe on the couch after a long 8 hours of work...but I dont want to give up and I will not give up. My main goal is to makes strides for animal health and well being.

Just yesterday I won for my piggies in my store (after a long 3 months of trying)...they are now in our large enclosure (the one where they usually put cockatiels or chinchillas) and they are really happy, heck I even saw a couple popcorn yesterday and that sure did put a smile on my face. So is a slow process, but every little bits counts.

[Susan9608]

Just yesterday I won for my piggies in my store

And what about the store 2 blocks from my house? Or the store 2 miles from my house? Or all the other stores across the US?

I know you believe you're helping and doing a good thing by working there, and perhaps you are, at least, for the few animals that you come in contact with. But in the grand scheme of things, you just enable the pet stores to keep doing what they're doing. If they had a mass strike of employees or had a hiring shortage and couldn't hire people because of the fact that they sell living animals in their stores, they'd either have to shut down the store or quit selling animals all together.

By working there, no matter how much good information you give out and no matter what great conditions you achieve for the pigs in *your* store, by working there, you still send the message to everyone who comes through those doors that what goes on there - that is, selling animals - is okay with you.

If simply improving the store conditions for a select few animals and if simply passing on good information (without any way to verify whether or not that information is being used) is good enough for you, then that's great. Good for you. However, don't come here and vehemently defend your CHOICE (not necessity, CHOICE) to work for a store that sells animals. There are a lot of people, myself included, who think that the BIG picture (the morality of selling animals) is more important than a temporary improvement in the lives of a very select few.

And not to be nasty, but I have to ask ... do you do the same thing for the rats? The mice? The hamsters? The birds? The fish? How can you advocate for one species of animal and leave the rest to suffer out their miserable existence in the store? What happens when the pet store gets some chinchillas/cockatiels who need the cage you've procured for the guinea pigs? Do the pigs get shoved back into the aquariums? Or do the chinchillas/birds now have to suffer because the pigs have an advocate where the others don't?

I just don't see the logic in saying, "Oh, I make sure my store is a good store." Great. But what good does that do in the long run? Animals are in the store for a finite and usually short period of time ... and since pet stores sell to virtually everyone who plunks down the money for a pet ... who knows what kind of conditions they go to after they are sold? I personally think it would be a lot better to try to eliminate the sale of animals PERIOD, rather than settling for a temporary improvement for a tiny few.