Presidential Elcetion????

[VoodooJoint]

The comments about women voting and slavery were to point out how we need to learn from our past. At one point in our history some people felt as strongly against those issues as you do now about Gay marriage.

You are against Gay Marriage, yet you avoided the divorce issue. How do you feel about divorce? I think we all can agree that divorce is far more common then gay marriages. If you are against gay marriage for religious reasons it logically stands that divorce is a sin also...especially if one of the members remarries. Do you advocate as strongly against divorce? Would you vote based on a "No Divorce" platform?

"I am glad you like the thought of killing a poor helpless baby"

Wow! Where did you get that? Do you honestly believe that those of us that support the right to choose are a bunch of crazed, rabid baby killers? Let’s not get carried away. If anyone is trying to start a fight it’s you...making crude statements like that.

[cinn&sprinslave]

I think that divorce is well something between the husband and wife. It depends on what happened.

Look I am sorry, about the comment. But I was raised to believe that if you have an abortion you are killing a baby. And I still believe it but thats not the point. I am sorry, truely sorry. I hope you can forgive me. You can take my apology or leave it.

[VoodooJoint]

Cinn

There is nothing to forgive. Religion and Politics are hot topics. Discussions get heated no matter what. All we can do is take a deep breath and try not to let it get under our skin. I am not mad about your beliefs. I may not agree with them but why do I need to? They are yours, I respect them, but I will give you a good fight if I feel the muse :-)

Just don’t take this stuff personally. No one is attacking you even though it may seem like it. We are attacking ideas and ideals.

Close your eyes, take a breath, bang your head if necessary and plow through.

Elly

[AngelsCavies]

I agree with Cinn. There are too many children out there that needs home just like piggies. Also if you decide to have sex at a young age thats on you cause sometime protection will not help even pills. My cousin was on pills and she still got pregnant. But she decided to keep her children than killing children. I can understand if a young child got raped and pregnant because of that issue. I can support that but on the other hand killing babis is like killing over populated animals too. It will not solve anyproblems at all. Also If you aborted a baby because you wanted sex and got pregnant you will have complications at birth with new child and may not get pregnant again. I cant even have children at all because I can not develop. So when I hear that people aborted their baby it kills me cause I could be more happier to have a child of my own weather I got raped, had sex young or married. I am totaly against abortion 100%. Just like Im 100% against animals being put down.

[AngelsCavies]

Also I do not beleive in gay marraiges at all. But on the other hand thats their choice but I am greatfull that they baned gay marriages.

[VoodooJoint]

Originally Posted by angeldjcavies

I agree with Cinn. There are too many children out there that needs home just like piggies.

You are right. There are TOO many children out there....but most people want babies, not children. Most people want healthy babies, not drug addicted, HIV+, brain damaged, emotionally disturbed children. Most people want white babies, not the hundreds of black children that stay in the welfare system until 18...when they are dumped into the street like so much garbage.

Also if you decide to have sex at a young age thats on you cause sometime protection will not help even pills. My cousin was on pills and she still got pregnant. But she decided to keep her children than killing children.

Ok. So are you going to support these young girls when their dreams of a future and an education is dashed? Are you going to send the child support that the 15 year old father, who is long gone and impregnating other naive girls, isn’t sending? I don’t see a lot of protestors outside the abortion clinics holding their adopted children. Their preaching rings hollow. You want to help why not at least start a free daycare for inner city girls so you can watch their babies while they continue their education?

I can understand if a young child got raped and pregnant because of that issue.

Oh, so it’s okay sometimes. Who gets to decide who can get an abortion and who doesn’t? Do you want that job? ‘cause I sure as heck don’t.

Also If you aborted a baby because you wanted sex and got pregnant you will have complications at birth with new child and may not get pregnant again.

Why is that your problem? Call it God’s will. So God doesn’t want abortion. What do you say to the adults who can’t cat preggers naturally and turn to science for fertility treatments. Take the McCaugheys. God said to then...no children. They ignored God and had Fertility treatments. She got pregnant with 7 babies. She refused to have any aborted because "It was God’s will to give us 7". WRONG! God chose to give them none. Science gave them 7. It’s convenient to ignore God’s will on our own terms. Yet we enforce it when it makes Christian morality cringe.

I cant even have children at all because I can not develop. So when I hear that people aborted their baby it kills me cause I could be more happier to have a child of my own weather I got raped, had sex young or married. I am totaly against abortion 100%. Just like Im 100% against animals being put down.

I’m sorry to hear that. Perhaps you should adopt some of the "unadoptable" children out there. I am certain you have a lot of love to give.

I am greatfull that they baned gay marriages.

Yes...I’m sure that Gay Marriage is a threat to you. Just like assault weapons...I’m glad there is a ban on those too! Oh, wait...that’s right Bush the moral leader of our times has let the ban lapse. Oh well. I guess I can get one to shoot the gays with now.

Like Cinn said "Lets see they have their own TV shows, their own bars, they don't have to hide what they do. But no thats not enough they have to make it ok for them to marry."

That’s right those Blacks have nothing to complain about...they just want more and more...

Opps

gays, blacks gays, blacks....???? I was sure there was a difference?!?!

ah yes!...or no?

Lets see they have their own TV shows (schools) , their own bars (drinking fountains), they don't have to hide what they do(as long as they stick to their part of town). But no that’s not enough they have to make it ok for them to marry(how dare they want to go to our schools, ride in the front of the bus, eat in our restaurants)

Are you seeing ANY similarity? I can’t be the only one. It’s racism...plain and simple!

[mncavylover]

Vodoojoint, thank you soo much! You saved me a bunch of typing (just kidding!) because I agree with you totally and completely. What do you have against gay marriage? It is NOT always a choice to be gay, so it is not any different than, say, someone that is born into a different social class or caste over in India. Just an example, not trying to bring up too many other issues here. I think it's prejudice all the same. Even if you *are* totally against gay marriage, what is their dream being fulfilled (marriage) going to do to you? Does it really hurt you that much? Say, do you really even notice that someone is married or not from one day to the next? The legality of it all kills me. It's not as if keeping them from marrying will stop their love.

Wait... you're against animals being put down? That is the only humane way to deal with certain situations. How would you deal with a dog who can't walk any more because he has no shoulders. That's how my dog had to be put down. I couldn't stand the thought, and I cried for weeks. We were medicating him all that we could, and there was nothing we could do to stop the pain of arthritis. He started to hide. He could not even get up the stairs, much less walk around. Unless it is for absolutely no reason (I can see the problem with that very clearly) I think it is ok. Do you think it's fair to let these animals in extreme pain live their last hours in misery? I really think that is a sick idea. What would you have them do?

What are you going to tell the 12-year-old who just got raped, and who the hospitals refused to give emergency contraceptives? It's really common to get refused, and there you have the baby. You think you should let her go through with it? Was it her choice to get raped?

[AngelsCavies]

ok mn what i meant is animals being put down for over population not health issues. I have no problem with gay people being together i just dont beleive in marraiges for gays. I have alot of gay friends and none of them want the gay marraiges to be officail. I did not say that the person who got raped could not get an abortion at all. I talking in general when people go out and have sex and can careless if they get pregnant or not.

[piggylover101]

Well I have to say I agree with Angeldjcavies and Cinn. I am 100% against gay marrige (they can't have kids, aren't a proper family, no mother and father, and many other reasons so why be married?), but I think they should have some type of companion liscence for the gay people. And I am also 100% against abortion, unless having that baby is a health risk to you, then you have that baby (s) and give it up for adoption or keep it.

Yes...I’m sure that Gay Marriage is a threat to you. Just like assault weapons...I’m glad there is a ban on those too! Oh, wait...that’s right Bush the moral leader of our times has let the ban lapse. Oh well. I guess I can get one to shoot the gays with now.
Like Cinn said "Lets see they have their own TV shows, their own bars, they don't have to hide what they do. But no thats not enough they have to make it ok for them to marry."
That’s right those Blacks have nothing to complain about...they just want more and more...
Opps
gays, blacks gays, blacks....???? I was sure there was a difference?!?!
ah yes!...or no?
Lets see they have their own TV shows (schools) , their own bars (drinking fountains), they don't have to hide what they do(as long as they stick to their part of town). But no that’s not enough they have to make it ok for them to marry(how dare they want to go to our schools, ride in the front of the bus, eat in our restaurants)

Are you seeing ANY similarity? I can’t be the only one. It’s racism...plain and simple!

Lets see Voodoojoint you just called Cinn and Angeldjcavies a racist in a round about way. Real nice aren't you?
And Mncavylover you also agreed that they were racists-

Vodoojoint, thank you soo much! You saved me a bunch of typing (just kidding!) because I agree with you totally and completely.

I am not mad about your beliefs. I may not agree with them but why do I need to? They are yours, I respect them, but I will give you a good fight if I feel the muse :-)

Oh right you really respect her don't you? When you turn around and call her a racist. Again how nice of you.
Well I am sorry I just cannot believe how you people are lashing into people for their beliefs. I am just disgusted. If this wasn't a national forum you people would hear a lot more from me. But it is and I don't want to get banned, because this site is gives awesome info on piggies.
Maybe next time you will think a little more before calling some one a racist? I sure hope so.

[piggylover101]

Oh also I have absolutly NO problem with gays being together, but I just don't belive they should be able to marry.

[piggylover101]

Hmmmm also You can't call them a racist (or call it racism) for being against gay marrige because it is not a civil rights issue.

[GuineasGalore]

ya, i agree with piggylover101
plus, racism is against a race (ex. canadians, americans, swis)

[piggylover101]

Originally Posted by GuineasGalore

ya, i agree with piggylover101
plus, racism is against a race (ex. canadians, americans, swis)

Yep yep yep, gay people aren't a race they are just people. I totally forgot about that!

[tashagurl]

You guys said that divorce is between a husband and a wife. Dont you think marriage should be between the two people it actually affects? I mean come on, if someone got married would you personaly be affected? Your not affected by streight marriages so why would gay marriages be any different? Its none of our buiseness to say who should be married. Its between them and their god.

[VoodooJoint]

Well I have to say I agree with Angeldjcavies and Cinn. I am 100% against gay marrige (they can't have kids, aren't a proper family, no mother and father, and many other reasons so why be married?),

"they can't have kids"..so by your definition any couple, even a man and woman, that cannot have children should not be allowed to marry. I’m not so sure angeldjcavies would appreciate that. She already said she cannot have children. Now you don’t want her to marry either. I’ll pass that tidbit along to my barren sister as well, a born again Christian and preacher’s wife, I’m certain she will understand your viewpoint.

" aren't a proper family, no mother and father "...define a proper family please. I expect you mean a man and woman. So what do we do with all of the single moms, dads, adult siblings, grandparents, foster parents, etc...that are raising kids. I’m confused...should we take their children away...not allow then to marry in the future? How do we punish "proper families" that get divorced? After all they tricked the system into marrying them by portraying themselves as a "proper family" but divorce ruins that...maybe jail time...?

"many other reasons"...you have to be more specific then that. There are many reasons to allow gay couples to marry.

-to proclaim to the world their love and devotion to each other.

-to be able to share job benefits as a family.

-to more easily adopt children

-for death benefits to go to their life partner

-to be able to visit each other in the hospital as a relative...many hospitals do not allow "friends" visit anymore.

-to file a joint tax return

-to be recognized as human beings with the same rights as other people.

but I think they should have some type of companion liscence for the gay people.

Companion license? What the heck is that? I can understand certain religions not wanting to marry a gay couple as it is against their doctrine. But anyone should be able to get married by a judge. I am a licensed "reverend" (although I hate that term). I have performed several marriages and even a couple of baptisms. I would be more then happy to legally marry a gay couple. I know several gay couples that would like to be married. If the local Catholic church isn’t willing to perform their marriage I will.

And I am also 100% against abortion, unless having that baby is a health risk to you, then you have that baby (s) and give it up for adoption or keep it.

I actually find this entire issue a moot point not worth discussing. There is no chance abortion will ever become illegal..that battle has been fought and won. Besides there are certain women’s groups around the country right now that have created a viable and safe manner to continue the practice for women who desire their rights to make their own decisions. They are teaching others. Never again will scared women have to face a filthy room down a dark alley and a torturer with a dirty bent hanger.

Lets see Voodoojoint you just called Cinn and Angeldjcavies a racist in a round about way. Real nice aren't you?

When it comes to people being denied their civil liberties I don’t try to be nice. As far as calling them racist...I don’t think I went too round about. I think I was pretty outright about what I was saying.

However you (or someone) made a point. Perhaps racist isn’t the right term. I guess better terms would be Prejudiced, Hate-monger, bigoted, elitist, homophobic, contemptuous, narrow-minded, discriminative, xenophobic, sexist... Take your pick.

Maybe next time you will think a little more before calling some one a racist? I sure hope so.

I thought long and hard about it the first time. I thought even harder with the new list. If you are against supplying human beings no matter what their race, religion or lifestyle basic civil liberties then you fit into one of the above categories.

Oh right you really respect her don't you? When you turn around and call her a racist. Again how nice of you.

Well I am sorry I just cannot believe how you people are lashing into people for their beliefs. I am just disgusted

Respecting one’s beliefs doesn’t mean I have to agree with them. I can respect that someone is Christian although I am not. I will not attack the Christian religion, or It’s beliefs, but I will attack if said Christian is trying to push their religious beliefs on me. Which is exactly what is happening in this discussion. No one can force you to have an abortion but you seem fine with taking away my rights to make that choice for myself.

If I believe someone is acted in a bigoted manner I will say so. If offense is taken that is your prerogative. I clearly stated that I will give a good fight. I don’t dislike you, Angeldjcavies or Cinn. I dislike your opinions and honestly cannot understand how people can still think like that. It makes no sense to me and I have not yet heard an argument that stands up to logic. I really am a reasonable person. I’m willing to look at both sides of an issue...but I need something better to work with.

Calling me mean won’t change my mind. I’m not trying to be mean, but as I stated I’m not trying to be nice either. I simply find it intolerable when people try to run other peoples lives.

P.S. Gay rights is a Civil Rights issue

Definition of Civil Rights - The rights belonging to an individual by virtue of citizenship, especially the fundamental freedoms and privileges guaranteed by the 13th and 14th Amendments to the U.S. Constitution and by subsequent acts of Congress, including civil liberties, due process, equal protection of the laws, and freedom from discrimination.