Question about the right type of breeding.

[rabbitsncavyluv]

No, it's dozens and dozens of experienced guinea pig/skinny owners and rescuers opinions on one website.

[daftscotslass]

Originally Posted by sweetjay6891

And that's ONE website's opinion.

Where is the proof to the contrary, that's what I'd be interested to know. It's a similar thing with satins over here in the UK. An English rescue has poured a vast amount of their money into researching Osteodystrophy in satin cavies. Most of the satins that come in are x-rayed - either because they are showing symptoms or are (currently) healthy and are used as baseline comparison. It says a lot that even the countries so-called "top" breeders of satins have not been willing to contribute to the study even though they claim they have "healthy stock".

It's a similar situation with skinnies. The fact is that they are a genetic mutation that has been inbred for generations in the years. Breeders claim that outcrossing them with furred cavies has made them sturdier - why did the first skinny pig born to a surrendered skinny carrier mother in a rescue in Scotland only survive a fortnight despite the absolute best of care and dedication? Her furred sisters survive. Where is the evidence to suggest that they are a healthy breed? Where are the breeder studies into congenital defects in the skinny and studies of longevity? The fact is there are none, because the breeders are afraid that the true colours of the breed will become common knowledge.

The eight year old children in my class at work know the difference between "wants" and "needs". They will tell you that you don't "need" a skinny pig. If you want one enough you will wait until one comes into rescue and continue to do your research in the interim.

[CavySpirit]

Originally Posted by sweetjay6891

And that's ONE website's opinion.

I wish I still had the groan feature up for that comment. You have got to be kidding me. And how exactly would you characterize that website over other websites?

[rabbitsncavyluv]

There are Satin breeders who think OD is a myth and of course don't exist in their lines. But they don't get x rays or keep most of their babies so how'd they know.

Even if skinnies were a hardy breed, the info on the breeding page still stands - one in five chance the sow and/or babies will die. If you want to contribute to that, then that's your choice.

Originally Posted by daftscotslass

Where is the proof to the contrary, that's what I'd be interested to know. It's a similar thing with satins over here in the UK. An English rescue has poured a vast amount of their money into researching Osteodystrophy in satin cavies. Most of the satins that come in are x-rayed - either because they are showing symptoms or are (currently) healthy and are used as baseline comparison. It says a lot that even the countries so-called "top" breeders of satins have not been willing to contribute to the study even though they claim they have "healthy stock".

It's a similar situation with skinnies. The fact is that they are a genetic mutation that has been inbred for generations in the years. Breeders claim that outcrossing them with furred cavies has made them sturdier - why did the first skinny pig born to a surrendered skinny carrier mother in a rescue in Scotland only survive a fortnight despite the absolute best of care and dedication? Her furred sisters survive. Where is the evidence to suggest that they are a healthy breed? Where are the breeder studies into congenital defects in the skinny and studies of longevity? The fact is there are none, because the breeders are afraid that the true colours of the breed will become common knowledge.

The eight year old children in my class at work know the difference between "wants" and "needs". They will tell you that you don't "need" a skinny pig. If you want one enough you will wait until one comes into rescue and continue to do your research in the interim.

[Jennicat]

Originally Posted by sweetjay6891

And that's ONE website's opinion.

I'd also like you to clarify for me how owners reporting how many spots they've had to take off their skinnies, as well as the problems involved with them is an opinion? These are people who actually have skinnies, simply posting what they're having done.

If I post about my pig's neuter, it's not my opinion, it's my experience with neutering.

[thalestral]

Originally Posted by daftscotslass

The eight year old children in my class at work know the difference between "wants" and "needs".

Absolutely. It all comes down to want versus needs, and nobody *needs* any one breed or colour of animal. It is pure selfishness for humans to decide that because they want an animal with no fur that they will breed said animals with little thought to their health or well being. And even if over time said animals could be bred to be more robust and hardy... why should they be? Why should weak animals be brought into the world because of selfish human wants?

There are plenty of animals in the world that need our love and our homes. Why get people to create pets for us that look or act a certain way when there are so many who would just love to come home with us as they are, and be loved just the way they are?

[Terekins]

It seems like the main issue here is whether the privilege of owning an animal can be considered more important than the welfare of animals themselves.

Of course we wouldn't have certain breeds without breeders. Guinea pigs aren't native to north america, so we wouldn't even have those if it weren't for people having brought them over. We bring these animals into the world for our pleasure, our benefit. In a way I think that's very selfish and pretentious. I would rather "do without" than have a breeder create little creatures that really don't belong here, just so I can have them.
Thanks to this site I've made the connection between these issues and petstores as well.

[mini'smama]

The two vets at the Animal Hospital I bring my pigs to are united in their position on Skinnies and Baldwins: Those two breeds are genetic nightmares.

They have treated many Skinnies for a wide variety of health problems. Those two breeds are simply not very sturdy healthwise.

[smartorl]

Why not take the lizard with the legs on backwards, put him in a jar and mass produce him with his own offspring and create a new "breed"? Really, just because something is "cute" or "different" doesn't give us the right or the need to create something out of it to share with others. I am very sorry but the hairless genes started as a birth defect, pure and simple, in order to mass produce it, we lovely humans, bred that initial pig back repeatedly to his / her own offspring for generation after generation to produce a kind of genetic predictibility. There was no focus on strong stock or a healthy gene pool, the eyes were focused on the end result which was a hairless pig. Many hairless pigs I see, to be frank, look sickly. A good friend of mine has a rescue hairless and she adores her. That pig is her baby and she loves her with all her heart, but it also breaks her heart with all of the health problems she has experienced. She would never trade her time with Lisa but is also a big advocate that these guys should not be being bred.

[caribear]

Originally Posted by Slave to the Wheek

I would see this mythological GOOD breeder as one who at minimum:

-neutered/spayed animals they are not personally breeding themselves
-had a high level animal husbandry education
-bred animals based on tameness, longevity, and health
-kept decades long records of animals personal files and health files

One would be lucky to find a single breeder in all of the world who met these these simple critieria -unfortunately. If someone know of a person who does meet them please PLEASE e-mail me. I'd like to talk to them.

I agree with you about this breeder. That would be a wonderful place to get a piggie. No mystery about the pig. It would be great! Have them e-mail me too!

This may be terrible but I didn't know the hairless ones were called Skinnies or Baldwins. I have seen pictures of these & wondered why they were bred to begin with. I personally think they are ugly & think they look cold. That's just my opinion. I feel sorry for them. I think they have less chance of being bought or adopted.

[piggly wiggly]

My skinny is just as strong as the furry I had, he is healthy and I adopted him from a rescue. Maybe they are prone to more illness as people say, no I don't think any animal shoud be bred, but I don't think skinnies should be singled out as a first to be written off. All who have read threads on here lately can see how many furries have been ill, had abcesses and died unexpectadley. Skinnies are not the only ones that get ill. Anyway I will just stick with my nude dude, everyone has their own opinion. My sphynx cat is also very very healthy. It was funny about the post that said manx cats can be born with spina bifida, that was funny, so what if they can be, love them just the same. My mom was a paraplegic because of spina bifida, and she bred and had me and I have spina bifida, just not as severe as I can walk. I know it was not meant to be about humans, it was about breeding animals with health issues. But every living thing has some kind of health issue, be it allergies, skin irritation, a cold, or something more severe. So why make an issue out of one breed, love them give them medical care let them live their life happy and leave the breed specifics alone. Sorry if anyone finds this offensive, I just don't get why these threads always come up picking on skinnies or any breed labeled "different" or a mutant. They re here already, give them the same love and respectas any other living creature. No animal should be bred when we have such an overpopulation of homeless animals period !

[VoodooJoint]

People need to try hard to understand that no one is saying that skinnies and other breeds of animals with poor health issues should not be loved and adopted if they turn up in rescue. They absolutely should be!

What we want is for them to not be bred on purpose.

Of course some of these animals will be healthy, just like some furred ones will not be. But if you look at the big picture it seems like most of these specialty breeds have health issues while most of the furred (typical) ones never have a problem.

Look at the big picture, not the individual cases. Getting 1 healthy animal out of every 10 born is not an acceptable average.

[smartorl]

Correct. The very nature of the way they are bred sets them up for major issues. If you knew how closely they are being bred (father to daughter, then granddaughter back to father, and so on) you would understand. There is nothing pretty about what has had to be done to bring you a skinny pig. As I have stated before, if one came available and came into my possession, I would adore it and do everything within my power to make it comfortable and healthy, but I still don't think people should be actively breeding them. As with anything, as the gene pool gets larger, people will then begin to focus on the health issues, but it is a secondary concern, hairless is the primary concern. Why do so many have to suffer to bring us something "different"? While members of this forum and others have and love their hairless babies and take care of them, how many of them are purchased for novelty and die with illness and improper care? I would say it is safe to say that over half of the skinny pigs sold are sold for novelty to people that have no idea how to care for them and would not consider a furred guinea pig as a pet, they just want the "oddity".

[salana]

Look at this cute, adorable little pig I used to have!


Einstein was sweet, lovable, cuddly, friendly with other pigs, smart, cute, etc. etc. etc. He lived 2 and a half years.

Don't you want a pig just like him?!

He had a genetic defect known as microphthalmia or "lethal white". He was blind and deaf and had no front teeth. His molars constantly overgrew and he was at the vet every month for a trim. Because of his tooth issues, he was unable to eat normally and had to be fed pellet mash and/or Critical Care.

But don't you want a cuuuuuuuuute little lethal of your very own?!