What I noticed at Petsmart....

[exsNohs]

I fail to see what your career has to do with being allowed to complain. And complain about what, exactly? Your time? Your money? Who on this site doesn't have a high-pressure job?

Sure, other jobs can be tough but... he DOES fight for your country. And he does fight for your freedom.

[Percy's Mom]

Originally Posted by exsNohs

Sure, other jobs can be tough but... he DOES fight for your country. And he does fight for your freedom.

And that has absolutely nothing to do with where he chooses to buy his pet supplies or what quality of food and other supplies he gets for his pets. I feel pretty certain that he is not the only military personnel who fights for our freedom that has pets and has to make choices regarding pet care.

[zambonigirl]

Originally Posted by exsNohs

Sure, other jobs can be tough but... he DOES fight for your country. And he does fight for your freedom.

I keep criminals off of your streets in my job, and my brother fought for your freedom and spent the first two years of his daughter's life in Iraq. My father also fought for your freedom in the Navy in Vietnam and the Persian Gulf, and my grandfather was a Marine during WWII. This isn't a contest to see who has the most to do. I still don't see how his being in the navy has anything to do with what he gets to complain about, or how much. He chose that job. I'm thankful that he chose that job, but he still doesn't get a free pass to complain about all and sundry, or to decide that I'm taking good care of my pigs at the expense of my own health. You're also turning this away from the topic, which is that it is much cheaper and much less expensive to buy hay and other supplies online. It also has nothing to do with his job, so I still fail to see how his job has anything to do with where he buys from.

[exsNohs]

And that has absolutely nothing to do with where he chooses to buy his pet supplies or what quality of food and other supplies he gets for his pets.

Nope, it doesn't. But I was talking about the whole time issue. You know, busy getting ready to go to Iraq for months, so he makes a quick stop at a place thats close by that he knows will have something... big deal. Everybodys gonna buy their food from different places regardless.. so I think everybody telling eachother theyre wrong or dont care about their animals shouldnt happen. theres just no point.

[CavySpirit]

momof2pigs, I find your post about our juvenile mentality pretty amusing coupled with the 'how dare we' and 'go jump in a lake' comments. I'm chuckling.

Anyway, while you do have a point, I think the problem is you take the point too far. And as you've been around here for a while now, you can't plead ignorance on not knowing the very strong bias of animal welfare on this forum.

I grant you, looking at hard, cold facts and numbers, which translate to resources available, are you going to spend $500 on extraordinary measures to keep a clearly dying animal alive or are you going to invest that $500 on saving the life of a healthy animal at risk of death in a shelter. The issue is, that's usually a decision more typically faced by a shelter or a rescue--someone in the 'pet trade business' so to speak. Generally, pet owners, want to and are expected to consider their pets as extensions of their families. To not do this, puts them more in the class of cute livestock or interactive toys.

As a rescue, I make those kinds of decisions every day, and I have to say, even with my continually burdened resources, I wouldn't draw the line where you do. I don't. In fact, I'm looking at a my dying girl, who has been laying on my desk for a week now. She has been hand fed for several weeks. She is on her way out. Even during the crisis, when I think my vet wanted me to bring her in to put her down, I couldn't. She isn't in any real pain. She seems to want to live.

If we were talking about wildlife and "knowing that an animal is not going to recover" then perhaps a shelter would decide the humane thing to do would be put it down. But, knowing your pet is not going to recover, be it a $10,000 race horse or a $2 mouse or a free guinea pig, if it's a pet and still has a decent quality of life potential, it is expected that you provide for that animal's life. You are a pet owner, not a rescue. If you see yourself as a rescue, then I think the issues are a bit different.

In all the years that I've been doing rescue, I have yet (knock on wood) needed to put an animal down. My fosterers have had a couple of cases, but that's it.

I am not euth-happy. I am euth-averse. Life wants to live. To me, it's more about accepting the responsibility of the little lives when we become pet owners. It's my opinion that we euth way too many animals for what ends up boiling down to inconvenience and we rationalize the hell out of it to justify it.

Anyway, I'm not calling you any names, I'm taking issue with where you draw the line.

[Percy's Mom]

Originally Posted by exsNohs

Everybodys gonna buy their food from different places regardless.. so I think everybody telling eachother theyre wrong or dont care about their animals shouldnt happen. theres just no point.

Yes, everybody is going to buy things from a variety of different places, but there most definitely IS a point. No matter what you buy from PetSmart, PetCo, or any other pet store that sells animals, money goes towards buying animals from breeders and pet mills. There isn't one pile of money for supplies and another for animals. It all comes and goes to the same place because everything in the store is considered merchandise. If you're comfortable with funding breeding mills that cause pet overpopulation, fills the shelters, and causes hundreds, if not thousands, of animals to die either from breeding them, the conditions they're housed in by the breeders, or not being able to find a home out of the shelters because others are being bred, then go ahead and stop on the way home and take the easy route to buy lower quality, less healthy food for your pigs.

Truthfully, if you're incredibly busy, it's much less hassle and cheaper to buy things like feed, hay, and bedding online, especially if you can buy it in bulk. Except for Hawaii and Canada, I live in the highest shipping area for KM's Hayloft (www.kmshayloft.com), but my pellets and hay come to $1.50 or less/pound. When I was buying in small bags, just the pellets usually came to around $2/pound, and buying hay was horrible. Living in California, your shipping and total per pound would likely come to less. Bedding can easily be purchased online from Critter Store (CritterStore.com - Small Pet Supplies and Products), The Ferret Store (Pet Products at The Ferret Store - @ The Ferret Store), or Pet Food Direct (www.petfooddirect.com), just to name a few options. None of those options line the pockets of breeders. Pet Food Direct has an email program where they will send you coupons for 13-25% off your order. I get several each week.

[Susan9608]

I just have to say - cancer is not necessarily a terminal disease. With proper treatment, many people - and animals - can become cancer survivors instead of cancer victims. Ending an animal's life just because he happens to have cancer, without even finding out about treatment options and prognosis, seems to me to be very drastic and unnecessary. What if doctors did that to people? What if families had their loved ones "put to sleep" as soon as they were diagnosed with cancer, just to save the money on "futile" treatment? Seems pretty despicable, doesn't it?

edited to add:

One of the greatest things about our country is that *everyone* is equal and has an equal right to complain no matter what their job is. So someone in the navy is no more entitled to anything than anyone else, from a grocery store clerk to a garbage man to doctor or physicist.

[Lyndsay]

Originally Posted by momof2pigs As soon as I hear the "C" word related to any of my pets, they will immediately be PTS. Why prolong the inevitable when you can end the process right from the start?

I find this sort of shocking, with all the advances in medicine today you would choose to put an animal to sleep without knowing if they are even in pain? without taking a chance to save them? without them living the full of their life, and using some pain killers to help them along the way? You deserved the response you got, did you not think that you would be jumped on for a comment like that. Animals should be givin equal treatment as a human child, they have the intelligence of a very young child even, but yet convince will allow you to save the whole $4.00 by buying the cheaper food at the pet store. Gee, thank goodness you aren't my care giver. Not even my father who will haggle at anything questions why I have decided to pay $53 USD to have high quality pellets shipped to the Canadian/American border, and drive 45 minutes one way to pick them up.
Do as you will though, obviously logic will not change your mind, but please don't accuse us having juvenile mentality, when we can make the correct decisions about what to feed our animals. There is nothing juvenile about that.

[jthocker]

I never said that I wouldnt look into it, and the "might have it" came form one of those stores. I AM tyring to make an effort here.

[standuprookie]

I live out in the country and wish all the time there was a store closer but I don't just shrug my shoulders and say "oh, well" I find the closest pet store that sells good quality pellets and I give them ALL my business and if they don't have it I go on line.
I'm sure if you look hard enough you'll be able to find a good pet store, have you checked the Oxbow store locater?

[Ly&Pigs]

Sure, other jobs can be tough but... he DOES fight for your country. And he does fight for your freedom.

The point is? I fought for the USA and for America's freedom in not one branch but two different branches of the military, Army and Navy and am a veteran of both services. I don't see what this argument has to do with a hill of beans.

Now onto another issue: ethoxyquin. Do you know that ethoxyquin is a pesticide/poison? It's listed and identified in the OSHA Hazard Communication Standard as a hazardous chemical. It has a toxic rating of 3 out of 6. Do you also know that dogs consume 300 times more ethoxyquin than humans do through dog foods that contain this ingredient used as an anti-oxidising preservative? Just think of what it will do to the pigs. Some companies still use it to preserve poultry and it's used as a preservative in some spices.

[momof2pigs]

I apologize. Some of the things may have seemed insensitive to those who try their hardest at any financial costs to keep a beloved pet alive (and have a decent quality of life) when they are sick or dying. That is comendable. It really is.

I am just coming at it with a different viewpoint. It doesn't mean I don't do my all for my animals. I was just referring to "hopeless" case scenerios. I have had many pets that I have spent BIG bucks on and haven't regretted it at all. I just cannot see it as "bad" to have a terminally sick animal PTS sooner, rather than later. It is a personal and often painful decision that many owners face. To say they are less than caring owners is just thoughtless, IMO.

[DnLnEsMom]

As someone who has rescued animals and have had to put them to sleep I can tell you it is not an easy decision. It is not something that someone takes lightly.

I am not really going to get into this "debate" but I must say this. I am shocked at the way some of you "speak" to each other. I personally can not afford to spend a lump sum of money on pet supplies, I just can't. WE have 3 children with medical needs, a cat (street resue 4 years ago), a dog (shelter resue 8 years ago), a hamster (rescued from a tiny cage at Petsmart 6 or so months ago. she was a she so they had her alone in a tiny cage up for adoption) 2 firebelly frogs, 2 fish. 5 guinea pigs. I can't always afford the best but I will guarantee you ALL of our pets are fed. I would rather see an animal in a loving home that feeds them 2nd rate food than one that doesnt' feed them, or one that beats them. I mean think about the big picture here..are they eating> are they healthy? Do they go to the vet for vaccines?

Its really great that some of you can spend fortunes on your animals. Its really great that some of you devote alot of time to your animals. But you shouldn't judge or attack someone else because they can't . There are always different circumstances, different knowledge levels etc. etc.

[Jennicat]

Originally Posted by momof2pigs

I am just coming at it with a different viewpoint. It doesn't mean I don't do my all for my animals. I was just referring to "hopeless" case scenerios. I have had many pets that I have spent BIG bucks on and haven't regretted it at all. I just cannot see it as "bad" to have a terminally sick animal PTS sooner, rather than later. It is a personal and often painful decision that many owners face. To say they are less than caring owners is just thoughtless, IMO.

Honestly, most of the uproar was because you told us you'd essentially put down an animal that in many, many cases was very easy to save. For guinea pigs, in MANY cases, any lump that might be "cancer" can be removed, and many, many pigs recover from lumpectomies.

It's distressing to be told that your beloved pet isn't "worth" it, because I certainly believe that my testicular tumor suviving piggie is worth it. He scampers (ok, well, waddles) around like the young, healthy pig he is.

[jackrussellgirl]

I have to admit I feel a little ganged up on. None of you know what my life is like right now. I'm a full time student and I have no job. I don't have a job not because I don't want one but because I can't find one. I have to ask my mom for money for everything. Not kidding, everything. Food, animal bills, and gas. My mom also has MS so she is limited to what jobs she can do. She is a single mother trying to get 2 kids through college with almost no child support. I already feel like my pets are a burden to her, she has actually told me that I spend too much money on them. I get Oxbow food online, my dog eats Natural Balance (I usually get it at Petco), and my GPs are on fleece bedding. I had to ask my mom to buy me a CandC cage even though I already have 2 very expensive store cages, that despite what you think were working for my GPs. The only other place less then 45 minutes away from my house where I can fin Oxbow food sells puppies and I'm sorry but puppy mills are way worse than most of the places where the stores get GPs. I can't afford to drive 45 minutes to get my pet supplies because I need my gas to get to school and back. Maybe before you harp on someone for buying from pet stores you should find out the whole story.