What Should I Do?

[Marius]

Hello Res,

I read your post and wanted to add my two cents in on the subject. Before I do so I feel that I should tell you a bit about myself in order to help you further decide what weight you feel my opinion carries.

I am a 23 year old male. My farther is an avid hunter. He tried to get me into it when I was younger, and I had no interest in it. Around the age of 19, I got interested in shooting though. I have since gotten my own license to carry and firearms. I still have no interest in hunting. Killing animals is not my thing. I am not a vegetarian, so I will not bash hunting. I believe that those who do bash hunting and eat meat themselves are hypocritical fools. As I mentioned before, however, killing an animal is something I have no desire to bring myself to do.

That being said, I think you should talk to your son about this all. Why does he want to go hunting? What does he plan to do following the hunt, and possible kill?

If he does not intend to hunt for the meat, I wouldn't let him do it. I would explain to him that you feel it is immature and selfish to kill something just to prove that he can. However, if he needs to do it, he is free to once he is out of the house. In the mean time maybe he can get his FID card, and practice at a shooting range. Absolutely no one will ever suffer from more time learning how to use a firearm. I think it is admirable that you want your son to start making his own decisions, but you shouldn't feel that you are denying him the choice by telling him that if he wants to do something, he has to wait.

If your son wants to go hunting and eat what he kills, I think it's much less repulsive. In fact, I have no problem with it. My opinion however, is completely irrelevant here. Why do you have something against it? Are you against the consumption of meat in general? If so maybe you should forbid all hunting until he is living on his own. If not, maybe you should think on your own feelings a bit. If you buy a hamburger, your paying someone to kill a cow. That's not much different from killing it yourself. In the end though it's your decision. I have a lot of faith in your ability to make the right choice for your family because a narrow minded person would never have asked for help deciding what to do.

If you do decide to let your son pursue this interest, please do so with care. Make sure his Grandfather is a responsible hunter, and most of all, find him the best FID training class that you can. I can honestly say that after taking my class I am in fact, less likely to ever use a gun outside of the shooting range then I was before. A gun is not nearly as dangerous as a car, but idiots make both fatal far to often. It's your and your son's job to make sure he will not be or associate with one of those idiots.
I hope I have been at least some help in this decision. Please send me a private message if there is anything else I can assist you with. Also, if your son chooses to get his FID card, I could give you the e-mail address of my instructor. He may be able to point you in the way of a responsible instructor for your son. It might not be a bad idea for you to attend the class with him, either. It never hurts to educate yourself.

Good luck,

David

[Sabriel]

Then video and forensic proof showed that groups of dolphins were actually killing them in a brutal and "sporting" way- for no legitimate purpose.

You get jerks everywhere you go. But animals on the whole don't seem to be interested of the grand scale of torture that humans seem to be interested in. You don't see lions killing 6 million other lions just because they are a little different.

Sometimes, I think as a species, we are too "intelligent" for our own good.

[Shaffy]

Originally Posted by Sabriel

Sometimes, I think as a species, we are too "intelligent" for our own good.

Yeah i agree. We are becomeing too intellegant for our our own good. Maybe one day Global wraming will be so bad it will take nuclear stuff to fix it or possible create an ice age to start from scratch. Or maybe were already too far.

But back to the hunting issue.

those who do bash hunting and eat meat themselves are hypocritical fools

No not at all people who eat meat and 'theoretically' bash hunting are hypocritical . Being an almost veggie it is pretty rude to say "if you are veggie you can be 100% animal rights and meat eaters can't" that is rude.

Also hunting is not that good for younger people (most people under 18). As i said before, he or she may not be mature enough, could kill someone- by a compleate mistake. So it's not very safe. Camping is much better.

[VoodooJoint]

I think if we were able to get into the minds of the animals that seem to kill other animals for no reason or "sport" we would find some sort of a reason.

For example there were two young, male elephants that were killing rhino and other large animals for no apparent reason years ago. It turned out that these male elephants were raised/rehabilitated by humans and then reintroduced to the wild. Because they were raised by humans they missed out on the elephant parent dicipline and were acting inappropriately for elephants.

If we were to look closer at *why* the dolphins were killing the porpoises we may find that it was caused by human overfishing. The tigers may be killing because they are losing natural habitat and their instincts are *off*. The chimps may have been battling for territory and breeding rights much like meercats and other animals do.

The animal world manages to keep a balance if humans don't meddle and encroach. Once humans start throwing off the balance, animals are likely to react strangely.

[hydrohoki]

Currently, dolphins are the only other species considered to kill for "sport" or "fun." For example, if a great white attacks and kills a dolphin, the others in the group (is it a pod for dolphins?) may work together kill the shark in revenge. However, it is not in defense because they usually hunt down the shark at a later time. To my knowledge, this has not been shown for any other species.

Note: My source for information on this is the Virginia Tech Paleontology group. I have not read the literature myself.

[VoodooJoint]

Those dolphins are still killing for a reason. They are destroying a proven threat. I cannot say if they also act on a sense of revenge but I do not doubt it as dolphins are inteligent creatures.

Is there a difference between the dolphins killing a shark and blue jays chasing off crows from their nesting areas? The shark/crow may be doing nothing at the time to directly threaten the prey animal but it is still a threat.

[JarBax]

The BBC programme 'The Natural World' followed a pod of Orca, and showed (amongst a whole programme of fascinating behaviours) footage of the whales catching a seal (near shore), then taking it out to sea, and 'playing' with it while it was still alive - thrashing it into the water, then letting it swim away for a wee bit, then catching it and throwing it in again. It made pretty sickening viewing, and the BBC had no explanation for the disturbing behaviour - but left it as documented.

While I agree with most of the comments about nature and need, this part of the BBC documentary stuck out in my mind as inexplicable. Much as we'd like to, we cannot get into the minds of animals - I'm sure they could teach us a thing or two if we could!

[Susan9608]

The BBC programme 'The Natural World' followed a pod of Orca, and showed (amongst a whole programme of fascinating behaviours) footage of the whales catching a seal (near shore), then taking it out to sea, and 'playing' with it while it was still alive - thrashing it into the water, then letting it swim away for a wee bit, then catching it and throwing it in again.

Cats play with their prey, too. They will often catch a small rodent, allow it run a little ways, then catch it again. It's a way of honing their hunting skills. I don't see how it's at all comparable to a human being hunting a deer and then mounting the deer's head above the fireplace. I don't see how it's comparable to locking 30 chickens in a cage the size of a record album. I don't see how it's the same at all.

[Res Judicata]

We're discussing archery, as a compromise. My parents live next door to an experienced archer who can teach him all about it and he can decide if this is something he wants to take up in the future. But he will be restricted to target shooting. If he ever shoots anything else, it'll go away and he won't get it back.

I remember going hunting with my dad when I was young. I remember having fun walking through the corn fields, along railroad tracks, picking up interesting rocks along the way, etc. But I didn't have a gun and I didn't shoot anything. It was more of a nature walk for me. I've described this to him, telling him I had fun without killing anything, and that it takes just as much skill to sneak up on something to get a picture as it does to kill it. My brother has an old camera with changable lenses that he's willing to loan my son, so he can have the experience of using a good camera. My dad is agreeable to it, as he and my mom both are into photography. Their walls are covered in pictures of flowers and landscapes that they've taken. Dad's not much of a hunter, anyway. He hasn't hunted since I was like five or so, and only hunted pheasant. I think he's wanting to do it because my son wants so badly to do outdoor things.

[JarBax]

That sounds like a great compromise Res Judicata! I especially like the idea of shooting wildlife with a camera - you're absolutely right - it takes a lot of skill (and patience) getting a 'good shot'!!

(Susan, I was responding to the tangent regarding animals killing for a reason - I agree that the part of the film I mentioned is not comparable to deer hunting/trophies).

[Emmett]

Marius makes many good points. I haven't eaten meat for 34 years but believe hunting is more ethical than buying meat in the grocery store. If an individual can't bear to kill the animal he or she is eating then they shouldn't be eating it. I don't like the idea animals are raised for our consumption. At least a wild deer, elk etc. are free and have some chance of survival. We have separated ourselves from reality of where our food comes from. I guess my point is if you can't watch the life force leave the animal you plan to eat maybe you shouldn't eat animal flesh.
If your son does decide to hunt make sure he takes hunter safety.

[lynn's Cavies]

I'm glad that your son is going to try archery instead. I have first hand knowledge of the dangers of hunting. Even with experienced hunters things can go wrong. My father was shot in the arm by his friend while hunting. His friend mistook him for a deer. I was 3 years old. It took my Dad many many months of rehabilitation, not to mention learning to walk again, as he was bedridden for quite some time.
He still does not have full use of his left hand and the scar he bears his frightening. He is lucky to be alive. His friend had to leave him in the woods, as there were only the two of them, and go get help. My Dad managed to start a fire when it became dark and this saved his life as the helicopter would have had great difficulties finding him. This was not a graze or slight wound in the least. He almost lost his arm.

I just cannot imagine giving a young child a weapon. He is not even old enough to drive, vote, drink, etc. Yet hunting is excepted in some families...I just cannot imagine this. To me it is common sense to not give a child a gun or let them use one or have access to one.

As you can see in my story above accidents can happen even with experienced hunters. My Dad and his friend had been hunters since childhood.

I would not allow my father to hunt with my child. Or anyone for that matter. Some kids are not even left at home alone at that age. So I for one am glad that he is going to try something different. And the photography is a wonderful idea.

It sounds like you took great thought with this and I am glad.

Lynn